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What is an RPG?

sirseorsirseor Member Posts: 19
edited January 2013 in Off-Topic
I simply became curious reading some of these forum posts. The various opinions on romance, character development, desires for BG II EE, or even discussions of specific games, all give slightly different views on what a good or classic RPG "should" be. I have noticed a few major themes.

CHARACTER DEVELOPMENT/STORY
Some people seem to love the character development. Conversation, romance, banter, etc. They want motivated, interesting fleshed out NPC's to love and hate. (BG, ME, FF...) Others see this as less important (Fans of icewind dale, Elder Scrolls or other such) [I have included story here, because I am not sure how you could tell a good story with flat and uninteresting characters, if you disagree, please correct me.]

PARTY CONTROL/STRATEGY
Others seem to be looking for a specific playstyle. Isometric views, tactical control of a varied party, class systems, etc. They want a good old fashioned D&D or FF style romp, and see things like Mass Effect as "Cover Based Shooters with RPG elements". (IWD, NWN2, BG are classic banner bearers here) Others are fine if they only control 1 character or it has a different play style (Dark Souls, Witcher, Mass Effect)

WORLD EXPLORATION
They want a world to explore, lore to learn, caves to crawl through, nooks and crannies to peek in, and secrets and marvels to find. "Non of this Linear nonsense!" is their battle cry. (Elder scrolls are probably the kings here, some might throw in Zelda or other such) Other do not really mind if they can't loot every box in the game, or wander the forbidden wilds. (DA:O, ME2)

CHOICE AND CONSEQUENCE
These folks want to be able to make the hard calls, choose their own path, and have that choice matter. They know that a game can't realistically have a written and scripted path for every outcome, but they take what they can get, and relish it. If they save somebodies life, they want to see them again, and if the game presents a terrible conundrum, they want the good and bad consequences of it all. Feel a little cheated by games with scripted stories (Pretty much all FF for example) big fans of things like: (ME, Planescape, Deus Ex, etc.) Others... don't see choice as that big a deal if the rest of it is good.

OTHER
I have no illusion that I thought of everything, so here this is.


Which of these is most important to you? Which can you let slide? What makes a "good RPG" to you?
Post edited by Jalily on
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Comments

  • CaptRoryCaptRory Member Posts: 1,660
    At its most fundamental, an RPG is any game in which you play a role. Which is all of them. So that doesn't help much~

    It really is all the trappings that make a RPG a RPG.

    Examining where the term originates helps.

    In pen and paper game, you create a character. It is a role you play. The trappings change from system to system, but since you are playing someone other than yourself...


    This has gotten circular. You're on your own =p
  • theoricustheoricus Member Posts: 115
    Planescape: Torment is my answer :)
  • TroikaTroika Member Posts: 36
    edited December 2012
    For me it's all about immersion and interaction. Immersing oneself in a scenario (or game world) and interacting with others in it in a way that is fun or exciting. In computer game rpgs you interact mainly with npcs, which is why it's important to have meaningful choices and good scripting there.
  • ZanathKariashiZanathKariashi Member Posts: 2,869
    You explore, you experience growth in your characters strengths. You make decisions that have varying varying levels of effect on the outcome of story.

    Anything beyond is what you make of it.
  • SilverstarSilverstar Member Posts: 2,207
    Can't I have all of them?

    I'd say having a party is probably the least important of those aspects, I find my own character the most important one, but I certainly do like having companions. As for what makes a "good RPG"... well the story I'd say. Basically all the Black Isle/Bioware/Troika RPGs have quality writing (some would argue it isn't the case for ID though) and that's why people consider them the cream of the crop.
  • KomarrKomarr Member Posts: 80
    Whether you are talking about a video game or pen & paper games, I think there are two concepts that define a role playing game.
    1. It tells a story. Like any novel or play: rescue the princess for her hand or kidnap the princess for daddy's ransom money, there is a beginning, middle and ending.
    2. You, as a character in that story, may affect how that story progresses and resolves.
    One important thing to remember about the second item. Some will argue that BG only has one ending, therefore you cannot affect the ending. I disagree because in terms of "THE STORY" you still get to define your motivations. Do you want to stop the Bhallspawn's reign of terror, or be the one directing it?
  • IntoTheDarknessIntoTheDarkness Member Posts: 118
    CHOICE AND CONSEQUENCE for me. just throwing my vote here.
  • LadyRhianLadyRhian Member Posts: 14,694
    In an RPG, you play a role, either created by yourself (Western RPGs) or a character created by the creators of the game that you are expected to inhabit (Eastern/Japanese RPGS). In that role, you encounter problems and make choices that have an outcome on the end of your story. You also gain more powers and skills as you continue to play.
  • ZafiroZafiro Member Posts: 436
    Playing God.
  • menumenu Member Posts: 6

    CHOICE AND CONSEQUENCE for me. just throwing my vote here.

    my vote goes for this too ;)
  • The_CheesemanThe_Cheeseman Member Posts: 175
    I highly suggest reading the D&D 4E Dungeon Master's Guides, one of them has a really awesome chapter that discusses the various psychographic profiles of RPG players and what desires motivate them to play. Essentially, there are many different reasons why people enjoy RPG's, and you will get many different answers to this question depending on the personal bias of the individual you ask.

    I also once read an interesting article on game design that approached this question from the angle of "Western" vs. "Japanese" RPG's. The author's conclusion, with which I agree, is that RPG is really too broad a term and conflates two genres that share the same origin, but have evolved into separate entities. JRPG's focus primarily on narrative, providing the opportunity to play the role of the protagonist in a pre-scripted series of events. WRPG's are more concerned with allowing the player to express himself through his character, with the story acting as a vehicle to provide compelling interactions and motivations. It's actually a fascinating allegory for the differences between the perception of social identity in Japanese and US cultures.
  • AnduineAnduine Member Posts: 416
    @sirseor: Basically, the 4 categories you listed are what makes a good RPG for me. Though when it comes to character development, I often leave that to a combination of the in-game choices I make and the story of my character being thought up in my own mind. Having characters in the story is important, but the main story that I care about is the world and game itself, not necessarily of the individual characters living in it (my own character(s) exempt, of course).

    The only thing that I really don't like seeing in games is romance, and I guess I can see why many people want it, but I have absolutely no interest and will go to great lengths to avoid it's involvement with my story.
  • LadyEibhilinRhettLadyEibhilinRhett Member Posts: 1,078
    Honestly, for me, everything is optional. I've played games from time to time that don't have a key element that I previously thought was essential to any good RPG. So, I've just come to the conclusion that there is no absolute constant. Good RPGs are out there in all sorts of forms, and while they may be weak in some areas and strong in others, that doesn't change the fact that they are good. So, I really think that each one is a truly great RPG for their own reasons, reasons that are sometimes VERY different from each other.
  • marfigmarfig Member Posts: 208
    The Role Playing Game genre had a concrete meaning when it was introduced to define pen & paper games, as opposed to other board games of the time. It simply meant a board game where you could actively define and play a character role. The emotions and actions of that character were defined by you. The game rules only defined the natural laws of the world where your character was inserted.

    With computers, the concept of an RPG got diluted. Games like Baldur's Gate can only emulate a part of the Pen & Paper experience. Lost is the ability to freely define your actions, for instance. The so-called Open World games also limit characters to a great extent. Computers -- and computer programming as a consequence -- can only define deterministic environments, incapable of properly simulating the freedom of imagination granted by a Pen & Paper Game Master (GM) and his players.

    In 2002, a game appeared that introduced a more powerful computer RPG experience and could have helped properly define the RPG genre on computer gaming. From the makers of Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights multiplayer module included a full GM experience. It was a very powerful (it's still being played to this day) experience that unfortunately didn't take off as it deserved. Maybe the never solved bugs, maybe the inherent complexity of the system, it simply didn't experience mass adoption. The opportunity to properly define computer RPG as a more close gaming style to that of its ancestor was lost.

    Proper computer RPG existed even before Neverwinter Nights, it must be said. To this day there's numerous conversions of board RPGs to computers, in which players play through instant messaging or a simple gaming client that provides IM functionality. I believe rpgarchive.com lists plenty of them -- been a long (long) while since I played. Indies have once and awhile also offered games that more closely adopt the RPG gaming style. Sleep is Death is a recent (2 year old) example.

    However, truth the matter is that a triple-AAA game could have had a more powerful impact on the proper definition of the RPG genre. That was lost with Neverwinter Nights meager adoption. Today, the RPG acronym is clearly diluted and close to meaningless on computer gaming. Stats, some sort of plot and some manner of character progression sense (as limited as it may be) is well enough to call something an RPG. It's unfortunate. But it's how it is. Trying to properly contextualize the RPG moniker on modern computer gaming is an impossible task.

    ...

    But nothing is lost. The RPG genre will one day find again its proper place:

    * Michael Mateas and Andrew Stern dabble in Artificial Intelligence while developing their project Façade (http://www.interactivestory.net/); a real language parser and an emulator of emotional states and human relationships, in what could constitute a major leap to the current tree-based dialog technology used in about every computer game.

    * Chris Crawford studies ways to bridge the gap between computers and the human mind in terms of storytelling, with projects like Storytronics (http://www.storytron.com/), a complete engine to devise, run and play interactive stories.

    Last, but definitely not least, Ernest W. Adams lecture at the 2005 Game Developers Conference is a must read exposition of the advances and challenges of developing proper interactive narrative in today's computers. It's very likely that we will require a new computer architecture (and a non-deterministic one) to one day provide a real RPG experience on a computer device. http://www.designersnotebook.com/Lectures/Interactive_Narratives_Revisit/interactive_narratives_revisit.htm
  • old_jolly2old_jolly2 Member Posts: 453
    edited November 2013
    The thing is that , it seems , as more games come out typing themselves as RPGs , this "type" may devaluate over time... Like it was more clear may be there were 3 or 4 RPGs around , but later Diablo be come and it was aRPG , ... and some cRPG , xRPG , etk. etk...

    I prefer a game by its resemblies ,rather than just a vague shortcut like FPS , RPG... Just say that it resembles this and that , and it should be enough , as every game till the day seems pretty much their own genre. IWD for example can't be an RPG , if BG was , because IWD is way different and catchy if you are looking for adrenaline even in saving/loading , not hardcore playing , because of Heart of Fury reasons...
  • Chaotic_GoodChaotic_Good Member Posts: 255
    Old has a good point there are allot of games with rpg elements like Farcry Borderlands and many more. For me it really just comes down to if the game consumes me Spoiler alert!! like in ff7 when Aerith is under our blade and we feel helpless, when you finish the red XIII story and the scene brings a tear to your eye, in lunar when it means certain death to move forward but you push on not because it is the progression of the game but because you must save your love, and in grand stream saga where your hearts rejection means death.

    It is the poetic transition from entertainment to empathy where the rest of the world falls away and for those short moments we are a hero... or demon.
  • LadyRhianLadyRhian Member Posts: 14,694
    I think it boils down to two basic types in RPG computer games. Western RPGs allow you to make your own character as much as possible and define how he/she reacts to stuff.

    Eastern RPGs give you a character and you play through his/her story- many decisions are taken out of your hands because the designers have designed the character and are making you play as that character. Except in combat situations, you don't get to decide how your character acts- that's mostly predetermined by who that character is, to the designers.
  • booinyoureyesbooinyoureyes Member Posts: 6,164
    Dr_Atomic said:

    To steal a joke from someone:

    It's a game where you assume the role of a fictional character, and guide that character through a fictional world.

    In other words, eHarmony.

    I really am a miniature giants space hamster, I swear!
  • KaltzorKaltzor Member Posts: 1,050
    edited November 2013
    I tend to find the majority of the audience for RPG games to actually dislike Character Development... They see a character who starts out bad, they will ignore them regardless how they turn out as the story goes on...

    And characters who go through no changes at all tend to be liked more...
  • SchneidendSchneidend Member Posts: 3,190
    These days, with virtually every genre capable of a compelling narrative, the only thing RPGs really have that remains unique to them is a strong foundation of RPG mechanics like Physical/Mental statistics, swords that do such and such damage, and talents that increase the sword's damage by such and such percentage.
  • AyiekieAyiekie Member Posts: 975
    An RPG is a game I point and say "That's an RPG". That's really about it. There's elements that are common (party members, plot choices, character progression), but none are universal and all appear commonly in different genres.
  • CrevsDaakCrevsDaak Member Posts: 7,155
    Ayiekie said:

    An RPG is a game I point and say "That's an RPG". That's really about it. There's elements that are common (party members, plot choices, character progression), but none are universal and all appear commonly in different genres.

    Unless
    1)Skyrim 2)FF 3)Not D&D at all 4)Not infinity engine.
    Children, that's game racism.
  • Chaotic_GoodChaotic_Good Member Posts: 255
    Skywind - Morrowind recreated useing Skyrims engine in alpha I think it would be great if it works out since the only thing wrong with Morrowind was the combat and skyrims is a improvement Sadly everything else in skyrim is shit.

    http://www.ign.com/articles/2013/12/06/morrowind-recreated-using-the-skyrim-engine?utm_campaign=fbposts&utm_source=facebook
  • DeathKnightDeathKnight Member Posts: 93
    RPG is a game, in which you kill stuff, pick up loot, when you gain enough experience you get a level up, which allows you to spend points to better your stats and skills. The diablo path RPGs are mindless clickfests. The BG path RPGs, are full of rich characters, complicated stories, crafty dialogues and strategic combat. The Witcher path RPGs, are all around, with merits of both types. All RPG types, though, require to create a certain atmosphere, unique and exclusive to this genre only. It cannot be defined, it cannot be contained, it is just that; an RPG.

    All good and legendary RPGs, though, are either isometric, or pseudo 3D. Examples: Diablo 2, Baldur's Gate 2. And old titles. There is good reason behind the statement that "they do not make them now like they used to". But this applies to all genres of pc gaming anyway...
  • CrevsDaakCrevsDaak Member Posts: 7,155

    But this applies to all genres of pc gaming anyway...

    4)If it isn't D&D, it isn't and RPG at all.
    And they are called CRPGs!!!! Computer Role-playing Games.
  • AlmateriaAlmateria Member Posts: 257
    Its your mom
  • KurumiKurumi Member Posts: 520
    edited December 2013
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Role-playing_game

    Even though the standard definition would fit to so many games, I really don't see certain games as RPG nevertheless.. Diablo is a good example for that (if at all it's an ARPG from my pov) or the Elder Scrolls series (would call them a Fantasy World Simulator) - to me a true RPG is based on a detailed setting - a complex living/breathing world with it's own history (no matter if it's sci-fi, fantasy, horror, etc.), is based on a [complex] rule-system, has turn-based combat and gives me the possibility to play a lot of different roles + the freedom/ability/choice to experience adventures/handle obstacles in many different ways.

    Edit: I should add, that I see real-time with pause still as turn-based if it is implemented as it is in the IE games or Drakensang for example, but not if it's implemented like it is in Mass Effect.
    Post edited by Kurumi on
  • iKrivetkoiKrivetko Member Posts: 934
    So TES is not an RPG because it isn't turn-based?
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