Am I the only one that thinks both Quayle and Faldorn are severely underrated?
Chow
Member Posts: 1,192
I usually hear nothing but scorn towards these two characters, but I don't really see why. Well okay, I guess I do see, but I still think there's much more than they deserve.
Sure, Quayle's got lousy wisdom and middling intelligence, but he's still got much more magic than any other NPC, only second for a PC cleric/mage. Not the first choice for both, but he can support with both fireballs and healing when your main casters are running out of spells. He can't really function as a primary caster on either side, except in emergency, but he'll get you a good bit of extra on both.
And Faldorn? Well, she's also got pretty lousy stats, and being a druid doesn't help her in spell selection, items, or combat. Her shapeshifting ability is mostly useless too. What does she have, then? Well, as a druid, she's the only character in the game that can cast fifth level spells, except out of scrolls. What's on fifth level? Iron Skins and Greater Command are pretty cool, but what I love is Mass Cure and Raise Dead. Those two spells alone make Faldorn worthwhile.
Of course, she won't get them until earlier, so might want to let her stay stuck in her forest and only pick her up later on.
But yeah. These two guys have their uses.
Sure, Quayle's got lousy wisdom and middling intelligence, but he's still got much more magic than any other NPC, only second for a PC cleric/mage. Not the first choice for both, but he can support with both fireballs and healing when your main casters are running out of spells. He can't really function as a primary caster on either side, except in emergency, but he'll get you a good bit of extra on both.
And Faldorn? Well, she's also got pretty lousy stats, and being a druid doesn't help her in spell selection, items, or combat. Her shapeshifting ability is mostly useless too. What does she have, then? Well, as a druid, she's the only character in the game that can cast fifth level spells, except out of scrolls. What's on fifth level? Iron Skins and Greater Command are pretty cool, but what I love is Mass Cure and Raise Dead. Those two spells alone make Faldorn worthwhile.
Of course, she won't get them until earlier, so might want to let her stay stuck in her forest and only pick her up later on.
But yeah. These two guys have their uses.
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Quayle on the other hand, doesn't really offer anything spectacular. He comes even later than Faldorn, has a chance to fail half of his spells, and his aggregate stats are actually the worst in the game (although aggregate isn't the best measure of potential, since some stats are more important). Cleric/Wizard isn't even that useful, since the game gives you six character slots to fill all your needs, so his extremely mediocre performance in two different classes doesn't really contribute much to an already balanced party. He isn't unusable, naturally, but there are a large number of factors that would make me prefer almost any other party member.
This said, Jaheira can cast Mass Cure too; it's called "Call Woodland Beings", it's badass, and it's without her being Faldorn, which is nice.
Quayle.... Well he'd be terrible if the game actually enforced spellcasting failure on low wisdom, but as it is, he's pretty neat so long as you don't let him anywhere near the front line, and next to be picked up on my ill-fated adventures.
I'm really not a fan of Druids, because I find their spell repertoire lacking. As pure, they can't fight well unless they shapeshift and then they can't cast.
The good thing about Druids is that they are the best levelers in BG:EE. So, Call Lightning which is very usable in BG:EE will really do wonders. Call Woodlands Being is also great.
Personally even if its radius means your party members have to be close together when playing a druid at high levels (at least in terms of Baldur's Gate) I kind of like using pixie dust once and awhile, its good for scouting as a group (and with scripts turned off momentarily) positioning your fighters and casters before a battle. But if you are chaotic good you can actually get a familiar (if you are I guess a beast master/mage/sorceror/bard) that can cast invisibility'10. But anyways Faldorns problem is mostly that you have to wait for a long time before you can get her.
It's worth pointing out that if you give Quayle the Ring of Holiness and Ring of Wizardry he'll end up with more overall (combining Arcane and Divine) spells than Edwin with a Ring of Wizardry. He's a spellcasting beast ... Cleric/Illusionist is awesome. @Mechalibur False. They never bothered implementing that feature. I love how everyone goes around claiming "well Quayle sucks because he has a chance to fail his spells," further proof that they never even TRIED using him before deciding he was crap.
As far as the stat part goes, that is definitely his weakspot, but let's think about it. BG1 NPCs had fairly crappy stats. To balance Quayle, they gave him an *awesome* class (Cleric/Illusionist is epic) and terrible stats. Another thing worth mentioning is that due to an oversight his Dexterity was 15 in BG Vanilla. I made a thread pitching a fit about that, and thank you very much Overhaul they actually raised his Dexterity to 16. AKA, 8 base AC rather than 9 and +1 bonus to ranged weapons. Hell yeah.
That being said, I actually feel that cleric/illusionist isn't really a great class at all, having played one before (well, cleric/mage rather) and feeling inferior to both the mages and the clerics. In a game where you get more slots than essential party roles, it's usually better to specialize than to take people average at both roles (there are exceptions, of course, but that's usually for multiclass combos that complement eachother, like backstabbing fighter/theives)
Quayle certainly isn't terrible or useless, but his late entry combined with a powerful early mage (Edwin) and clerics (Branwen + Viconia), and poor stats, makes him very unnattractive for most players, especially ones who have their party figured out by the time you get to BG (and beside the final fight, I always felt that by the time you've reached the city, you've already done the hardest parts of the game)
Who?
:P
A Cleric/Mage can still only cast one spell at a time. You're better off with two characters, like Branwen and Edwin, than Quayle. Of course, Quayle is only one character, and there's a limit to how many you can bring... but honestly, he's not fantastic. Quayle is just a mage who can cast a few CLW spells. He's still a mage, which is the best class in the game, and Illusion is a decent specialization, but the cleric class really doesn't bring as much to the table as you seem to think it does. What you're really adding to the cleric portion is just the drawbacks of being a mage.
Faldorn not so much I've used her briefly a couple times and was mostly underwhelmed altho I may not have kept her around long enough to get the benefits of her highest level spells - in fact most times I was tired of her in time to swap her out for Yeslick... ;-)
Also, Yeslick has always been good but now he's even better: Give him the Gauntlets of Dexterity, then the Big Fisted Belt (Cursed, 19 Str 6 Int) and he's totally beast. He only loses a whole 1 point of Intelligence anyway, rofl.
I find his personality annoying as heck, though.
And I'd like to chime in, Druids SUCK ASS in BG1. After 2rd level they only get 3 3rd, 2 4th, and 1 5th known spells and they're not even good spells (known spells, not spells per day). Of course, BG:EE uses spells from BG2, which makes them A LOT better.
Faldorn is ok...her melee is garbage, but she can summon a dread wolf, which is pretty neat. Not as OP as Taix's Ghast, but better in melee then she ever will be, even shifted.
I dislike Quayle because of his personality and how late you get him.....well..and combined with the fact he never really gets the chance to become powerful. The only time I ever use him is in a party with Tiax because I enjoy watching Tiax butcher him when they inevitably come to blows.
Strickly in the sense of BG1 without ToTSC installed you are probably right on the numbers of 4th level spells, fifth levels spells don't really even enter into it in that case however.