Is this balanced for BG1 and BG2?

MurrayConfederacy

I recently made my first ever class kit for BG2. I was wondering if you would take a look at it and tell me if it is overpowered or not (I tend to think that it may be the former for BG2 and the latter for BG1, but let me know).

I have hidden the old class in the spoiler tags.

Ranger Class Kit: Slayer

Advantages:

- +2 Strength at Character Creation.
- Can place 5 points in Two-Handed Weapons proficiency.

Disadvantages:

- Must be a non-lawful alignment.
- -4 Constitution at Character Creation.
- Cannot use armor higher than studded leather.

Here is the new Slayer class, I worry that even with the massive ability nerf it is still quite powerful.

Ranger Class Kit: Slayer

Advantages:

- +2 Strength at Character Creation.
- Can place 3 points in Two-Handed Sword proficiency.

Disadvantages:

- Must be a non-lawful alignment.
- -6 Constitution and Intelligence at Character Creation.
- -2 Wisdom at Character Creation.
- Cannot use armor higher than studded leather.
- May only become proficient in any weapon that isn't Two-Handed sword.

As you can see from the above I have given the class some more powerful stat loss, probably a bit too much, but I didn't know what else to change to make it weaker, I might try to give it an applied ability for magic vulnerability or something if this is too unbalanced.

Does the loss to survive-ability outweigh the damage gain? Please analyse it twice, once for BG1 (and EE) and once for BG2. What should be changed to make this kit balanced?

I thank you greatly for any feedback you could give.

Dee

Two things:

First, the "five points in two-handed weapons proficiency". If that's meant to be the fighting style, it won't work the way you want it to because there's no benefit for more than two pips. (Grandmastery in the weapons themselves, though, is fine).

If you're allowing grandmastery for a ranger, you need to limit proficiency in other types of weapons. So that means only one pip in ranged weapons and one-handed weapons.

Second, The +2 Str is much more potent than the -4 Con, because anyone using this kit will always start with a Strength of 20. Because of the way character creation ability scores are generated, the -4 Con will never be a true problem; the only thing that it will do is make it so the player will have a Con of 14 instead of 18 (and they won't have any trouble finding the points for it, because the ranger is slanted in favor of high-point builds anyway).

The strength boost means that this class is very powerful in BG1, where the number of strength-boosting items is limited and where the extra four damage per attack will often mean ending fights in the first round. It's less potent in BG2, but still problematic because of the inherent strength of two-handed weapons. Any Slayer that doesn't invest in Two-Handed Weapon Style is severely missing out.

The reduced armor and reduced constitution are big hits to your survivability, but your offensive abilities are so powerful that it will rarely matter. There are also plenty of strong leather armors in the game so as to make it not an issue.

Arctic

well i think the 36 less hp matter, 2 strength is nothing when you can put a belt of 19 in bg:ee

IchigoRXC

Belt = 19 stength, Slayer + tome = 21 strength. Which is 1 Thac0 Higher and 2 damage higher.

The hp as has been stated is not a massive loss in comparison to the fact at level one your Thac0 gets a +4 bonus and you get +9 to hit. Also, referencing the first point, the belt you don't get immediately, you would immediately get 20 strength from this.

Maybe add a horrible inteligence modifier as well, lowers the high point rolls a little and also makes you illithid food as a weakness in BG2.

On another note it detracts from the use of Half-Orc fighters if you can get a ranger or any race that can be physically stronger than it, still with 5 pips in a weapon.

BGEE = Hit everything to easily and too hard. Chunk everything before they can make use of your lower life/AC

BG2 = Lots of good Armours means restriction to studded is not huge and eventually AC means nothing anyway and you are going to get hit. At that point your HP may make a slight difference, but nothing that compares to have 21 strength (after tome) at the begining of SOA and hitting things sooo hard, they never get a chance

Basically you are like a kensai who can wear armour and get +2 strength. Needs a little rejig I think for balance. Less Cannon, more glass.

Stargazer5781

IMO +2 strength is unbalanced no matter what you nerf. The reason why the 18/XX stuff exists is because humans aren't supposed to have higher than 18 strength. Anyone with numbers in the XX spot is an extraordinary Mr. Universe type. Above 18 we're talking giants - your strength is coming from your tremendous size. For some human to be walking around with natural 20 strength is basically in the realm of superheroes. But obviously do it if you want, there's something to be said for running around hacking everything to pieces with a two handed sword. The game just won't be much of a challenge.

MurrayConfederacy

Hey people, thanks for the feedback - I have updated my first post with a hopefully more balanced (if not ridiculous) kit. Thanks again for the help.

IchigoRXC

You must realise that having a +2 to strength is unlike having a +2 to any other stat because of the effects of exceptional strength. Having 20 strength is that of a Stone giant, 18 foot tall monsters that have a base AC of 0. These things are nasty, and humans just shouldn't be able to roll a character that strong at level one.
The best way to balance it a bit would be to reduce it to 19 (same as a half orc) which is already a massive boost for the races that could never usually reach 19 on creation.

Here is a table showing the benefits of each strength stat, and also the type of Giant each stat over 18/00 adheres to.

For me, 19 strength, 5 pips in all 2 handed weapons (swords spears halberds), 2 pips in 2 handed mastery, 1 pip in all other close range weapons, can not specialise in ranged weaponry. -2 to constitution, can not be lawful alignment.

Perhaps grant and ability that increases damage dealt for x amount of rounds. Helps simulate 20 strength, without being overpowered all the time.

MurrayConfederacy

IchigoRXC said:

Perhaps grant and ability that increases damage dealt for x amount of rounds. Helps simulate 20 strength, without being overpowered all the time.

That is a really good idea, the *lore* of the class is that it is supposed to have divine aid in it's strength and this would fit perfectly. I'll see about doing this.

Sarevok24

you could get a bonus to your strength stat at certain levels perhaps, similiar to the per level per day abilities of other classes so that you are not as much of an Uber-powerhouse in the early game. other than that, i think that @ichigoRXC had a great idea

mlnevese

Or maybe the class could cast strength once/day every 5 levels and lose the two weapon fighting due to focus on big two handed weapons. No bonus to strength and no penalties to constitution in this case.

Dazzu

While it'll be really good in BG1, this class will start to struggle in BG2. By ToB, the lack of heavy armor is irrelevant, as is the bonus strength. As well, so is the Mastery point in swords. Actually in Bg2 rules, Mastery is fairly bland and doesn't do much.

I don't know, this class just feels like a crutch class.