Druids have access to the BG2 spell pool now. A single-class druid is EASILY the best divine spellcaster possible. They can do things clerics can't do, and the one thing clerics can do you already mentioned: it can be relegated to an arcane caster. All I ever have prepared at level 2 is hold person and web anyway.
Only counts for straight regular druids, though. Hitting level 5 divine spells is a huge advantage over clerics but they lose that if they multi-class.
Druids are good, as I said, I'm a fan of them. Particularly the avenger kit.
I just feel that the druid is slightly less effective at the party buffing/preventative magic role that the cleric is. The druid is far more offensive than a Cleric though, so they both have different areas they shine in. I, personally, wouldn't want to have just a druid as my only source of divine magic in my group.
2nd level arcane spells are great! I'm a fan of Agannazar's Scorcher, Melf's Acid Arrow, Detect Invisibility, Web, Glitterdust, Horror, Mirror Image and Invisibility. Too many great choices to have to spend a few slots on Resist Fear.
How do you ever heal up in that party? If you rest, you get your natural healing plus all magical healing every 8 hours...with that party, you only get natural healing, so when you rest, doesn't it take you like a week of game time to get to full? And how do you ever rest without getting wandering monsters if it does take an in-game week? Or do you always rest in an inn?
I don't find Clerics essential. I'm currently playing without a Cleric in my party and I'm doing fine. There's more than enough healing potions throughout the game to cover you.
Well, I don't see how you can get through the game without ANY divine healing (cleric OR druid) because then resting takes weeks to heal your party to full...doesn't it?
Well, I don't see how you can get through the game without ANY divine healing (cleric OR druid) because then resting takes weeks to heal your party to full...doesn't it?
You can use potions, or pay a healer to heal you in town. And you regain more hp when resting at an inn and choosing a nicer room. Paladins also have Lay on Hands, and if you're a good aligned PC you get a couple uses of Heal Minor Wounds. Resting will automatically use those spells if needed, and if they're available.
Well, I don't see how you can get through the game without ANY divine healing (cleric OR druid) because then resting takes weeks to heal your party to full...doesn't it?
You can use potions, or pay a healer to heal you in town. And you regain more hp when resting at an inn and choosing a nicer room. Paladins also have Lay on Hands, and if you're a good aligned PC you get a couple uses of Heal Minor Wounds. Resting will automatically use those spells if needed, and if they're available.
Or if you happen to be evil with a hurt charname just drain the health from the runt/least liked guy in your party.
Well, I don't see how you can get through the game without ANY divine healing (cleric OR druid) because then resting takes weeks to heal your party to full...doesn't it?
Other than a few specific quests, the game doesn't really care if it takes you 1 hour or 100 years to resolve the main quest. It's pretty dumb, actually. One way to "fix" the issue of infinite resting rather than disallowing it in certain areas would be to simply make more quests time sensitive. Even modern games don't tend to do this very often for a variety of reasons, but in actual PnP time is a real concern. If you leave the dungeon for 24 hours things are going to change and the enemies might just leave or attack you.
I just beat the game with Minsc, Dyshanar, Raasad, Neera, Imoen (dualed to mage), and CHARNAME as a Kensai so... clerical magic isn't that important. The low level heals suck anyway.
/agreed Though I used Branwen in my game only as buff-bot and the debuffs ain't that bad either and makes some fights a breeze (silence...), else my healing was better & faster to just click on those potions. Wasted her heals only in between, when I was just to lazy too rest.
My only healer is Jaheira, but she keeps the group covered. As a caveat, I will point out that my good-aligned Bhaalspawn abilities also provide quick little heals, Ajantis can whip out Lay on Hands when needed, and now even Rasaad can heal himself with self-only Lay on Hands. Since I am playing this run-through intentionally light on spellcasters (just Jaheira), I mostly load her up with heals and slow poison (Slow Poison is great btw, it casts almost instantly and you need it badly against a lot of major creature types) and I just beat the bejeezus out of my encounters. Yes, I do have to reload caster fights sometimes, but virtually everything else works just fine.
Short answer: Yes, get a healer, but Jaheira is enough in my experience.
Well, I don't see how you can get through the game without ANY divine healing (cleric OR druid) because then resting takes weeks to heal your party to full...doesn't it?
My CHARNAME had 2 light heals from the storyline dreams. Not that, that helped a lot, but it was free.
Having a cleric is probably not absolutely essential in BG1, but it sure does make it easier: Remove Fear (1st level spell), Hold Person, Silence, (with wisdom bonus spell slots - at level three the cleric gets three of them!).
I don't like to play early BG1 without Remove Fear, Hold Person, and Silence. Just as I don't like to play early SoA without lots of Chaotic Commands. (I always want enough of the spell to cover all six party members.)
In late SoA and ToB, clerics may be a bit less essential to making everything less scary and more doable, but, with Jaheira, Cernd, or a PC druid, you still have that infamous 3,000,000 xp gap to get over to make it to level 15.
In late SoA and ToB, clerics may be a bit less essential to making everything less scary and more doable, but, with Jaheira, Cernd, or a PC druid, you still have that infamous 3,000,000 xp gap to get over to make it to level 15.
Yeah but it's all for the flavor of the druid class! Without a stupidly long wait between levels 14 and 15 there'd be no real reason to play the class, I think. I'd gladly wait around for 3 million XP just to get a taste of that awesome druidy flavor... tastes of bullshit.
@GoodSteve, um, I'm not sure how to interpret your last phrase, there, but, assuming you're serious about the rest:
Druids are indeed awesome. I almost always have Jaheira and at least one other cleric in my party, so that I get the best of both worlds.
I'm even considering doing a run with me as an Avenger, to get a kind of cleric-mage that may be even better than an actual cleric-mage.
I don't think it has to be either-or.
Let's see, though, the question was, how would you do with no healer, i.e. divine caster at all in your party? I wouldn't do it. I guess it would make an interesting challenge. People play F/M/T solo all the time, just using available potions, but that's for solo games. In a party game, where you actually are roleplaying, and you care about all your "friends", I wouldn't recommend it. I think that you would be making an awful lot of trips to temples and spending an awful lot of money to pay a temple to do what simply having a healer in your party could do easily, and for free.
@belgarthmth Basically what I was trying to say is that the huge experience gap between 14 and 15 is due to some flavor related thing with the 2n ed rules. Level 15 and above druids are considered "arch druids" or leaders of a particular grove or what have you. There is no rules reason there should be such a gap between those levels which I find to be bullshit.
Otherwise, druids are great. I particularly like the Avenger.
Balancing and level advancement in PNP is so different than on the computer. In over 30 years of gaming, with 1st and 2nd edition rules, I only ever had one character get above 15th level (okay, actually two, but they were husband and wife). Now I don't mean to say that's typical, so much varies from game to game and DM to DM. But the game seems to play best from about 3rd to 10th levels, and characters above that range often migrate to non-adventuring things and stop advancing. Which is all just to say, the computer game pushes the system beyond what was originally intended at times. On balance, I think it all works out pretty well; but the designers of SoA (and especially ToB) are clearly trying make things work in a way that is pushing the limits from every side. I think they came up with some excellent ideas, like the HLAs that made advancement meaningful and exciting well past what would normally be done in PNP. But there's still plenty of artifacts from the original game, like an unusual idea for Druid limitations. And if you think that's awkward, you should see how bards and monks worked (or didn't!) in the first edition rules!
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I just feel that the druid is slightly less effective at the party buffing/preventative magic role that the cleric is. The druid is far more offensive than a Cleric though, so they both have different areas they shine in. I, personally, wouldn't want to have just a druid as my only source of divine magic in my group.
2nd level arcane spells are great! I'm a fan of Agannazar's Scorcher, Melf's Acid Arrow, Detect Invisibility, Web, Glitterdust, Horror, Mirror Image and Invisibility. Too many great choices to have to spend a few slots on Resist Fear.
Though I used Branwen in my game only as buff-bot and the debuffs ain't that bad either and makes some fights a breeze (silence...), else my healing was better & faster to just click on those potions. Wasted her heals only in between, when I was just to lazy too rest.
Short answer: Yes, get a healer, but Jaheira is enough in my experience.
I don't like to play early BG1 without Remove Fear, Hold Person, and Silence. Just as I don't like to play early SoA without lots of Chaotic Commands. (I always want enough of the spell to cover all six party members.)
In late SoA and ToB, clerics may be a bit less essential to making everything less scary and more doable, but, with Jaheira, Cernd, or a PC druid, you still have that infamous 3,000,000 xp gap to get over to make it to level 15.
Druids are indeed awesome. I almost always have Jaheira and at least one other cleric in my party, so that I get the best of both worlds.
I'm even considering doing a run with me as an Avenger, to get a kind of cleric-mage that may be even better than an actual cleric-mage.
I don't think it has to be either-or.
Let's see, though, the question was, how would you do with no healer, i.e. divine caster at all in your party? I wouldn't do it. I guess it would make an interesting challenge. People play F/M/T solo all the time, just using available potions, but that's for solo games. In a party game, where you actually are roleplaying, and you care about all your "friends", I wouldn't recommend it. I think that you would be making an awful lot of trips to temples and spending an awful lot of money to pay a temple to do what simply having a healer in your party could do easily, and for free.
Otherwise, druids are great. I particularly like the Avenger.
And if you think that's awkward, you should see how bards and monks worked (or didn't!) in the first edition rules!