Imba greater wolfwere?
MountieXXL
Member Posts: 8
I just can't beat this guy, playing on core rules with F/T, Imoen(Thief->Mage@Lvl4), Branwen and Neera. He only takes spell damage but regenerates a little less than half of his hp in ONE TURN?! All I can hit him with are petty spells and they don't even hit for full damage, needless to say he never drops below badly injured and is back at uninjured within 2-3 turns as soon as even one mage or cleric runs out of damage spells. Party is at lvl 8/9, anyone else have this problem?
Don't remember him being such a game breaker on original BG, but then again, those days I always had a 5 companion party + Boo along for the ride. If I could I would just leave him, but the quest requires him dead so I am stuck on Baldur's Isle for all eternity it seems (muaha).
Don't remember him being such a game breaker on original BG, but then again, those days I always had a 5 companion party + Boo along for the ride. If I could I would just leave him, but the quest requires him dead so I am stuck on Baldur's Isle for all eternity it seems (muaha).
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This is just speculation as I've not reached that point yet, but you might want to try reloading a save from before you reach the map he's on, then just try and gun for him without loading a save that causes his regen to double.
This bug was probably introduced as a result of the use of the BG2 engine, which may be why you've not experienced it before in classic BG1.
if i had had only two ("only") arcane spellcasters i wouldn't have been able to kill him (probably would eventually, but with luck): seems bugged
Edit: to be honest I was asking the question more to the OP (I thought f/m was written not f/t) but I should have specified
he was killing me extremely slowly so no control was needed (i had kagain with absurd AC on the line) but i wasn't killing him at all until i resorted to mm, because i didn't have any other adequate attacks against him.
I did 58 damage on a Burning Earth backstab with Shar-Teel (4x). CHARNAME then hit with the dagger and it was game over.
Greater werewolves and wolfweres regen to maximum health every single combat round in pnp, I am not sure how long the interval is but it looks like they do the same in BG, so if you don't kill him before his regen ticks he will go back to full health.
Use the two +4 vs lycanthrope weapons on your fighter types, the dagger can be used for backstabs if you desire, use the necklace, give the party haste, have your melee fighters use potions of giant str, and be ready to throw spells as soon as you see the melee guys land a few significant blows. Sequencher magic missle if you have it available works best as the damage is guaranteed.
He's wearing two immunity items—IMMUNE1.ITM which grants him immunity to non-magical weapons, and RINGWOLF.ITM which grants immunity to non-silver weapons. He's also got 50% elemental resistance and good saves. No physical damage resistances, no magic resistance (but 50% fire/cold magic damage resist for what it's worth).
All that said, I've a long way to go before I experience the encounter in BG:EE myself (especially given my incessant rerolling/restarting) so take all the good practical advice above from those wot've been there into account.
Pre-battle:
- gave my F/T Balduran's sword
- buffed haste, chant and bless
- cast luck on F/T
battle:
- Branwen as tank
- alternated rod of paralyzation and hold person (till one of them worked, without a save debuf it is near impossible hitting him with the rod)
- cast slow
- Spammed wand of the heavens with Branwen
- used minor sequencer with the mages to spam magic missiles
Almost lost my mages due to one of Neera's spells backfiring and turning into a fireball, but got him down =D
Most of your NPC have 1-2 ApR, against an AC of -6, it's highly unlikely to kill him if he just regenerate 30 (!) HP/round.
The only NPC, who did damage and thanks to his Bastardsword-spec in my game was Ajantis, with roughly ~14-20 Damage per round, sometimes he completely missed. Fight took me like 2min~ at all.
I primarily used only debuff-spells, so no other sources of damage involved.
My main might be fighter, but non-proficient with either B-swords or dagger his thac0 was like 11-12 against the AC I needed at least a 18 to hit it. Ajantis only 10 or 11ish....
In your example, I would have never been able to kill him :P
This was not a problem in Vanilla BG because with the long sword proficiency, you can use bastard sword as well as long swords...
I forsaw that would happen in this Edition since it was the same problem with BG Tutu or BGT.
The only one handed +3 weapons are drizzt's or short sword +3, so there are really few weapons to attack him with.
In BG vanilla I used one of these scimitars for my main characters (stolen) and the sword +1 +3 vs metamorph with khalid, and there was no problem.
http://i800.photobucket.com/albums/yy284/valky667/valky_pic/twinkle_aja.jpg
You can use long swords, bastard swords, two handed swords (if i recall properly) as if they were the same items.
It was way easier in vanilla BG1+totsc, as you needed only 1 stupid proficiency, which was covered by most NPC = swords (or sumthin' like this).
It was only an example, that even +3 basic weapons do not work, as it was mentioned several times, that it'd be enough to beat the resistance to weapons.
I'm setting the rambling discourse below in spoiler tags so folks not interested in the "behind the scenes" stuff can spare their eyes.
I just installed fresh (unmodded) BG1 and BG2 (from GoG, so they're patched; I didn't want to juggle CDs
The Greater Wolfwere in classic BG1 (WOLFWEGR.CRE), thanks to RINGWOLF.ITM, regenerates at 5hp/sec. This regeneration is set to "Instant/Limited" timing mode, duration "999999" (if that's seconds, then dance around for a little over 11.5 days and his regen would wear off?). I presume there were no issues with stacking regen using that; the one time I must've done this encounter was with unmodified, patched BG1 a few years back and I don't recall it being absurdly ridiculous. Perhaps the "Limited" means the effect is not saved (or reloaded on a game load) with the creature instance.
The Greater Wolfwere (WOLFGR01.CRE) in patched, unmodded BG2+ToB is problematic. The immunity is moved from RINGWOLF.ITM (and he's not got IMMUNE1.ITM equipped at all) to an "Instant/Permanent until death" effect on the creature proper, making him just immune to non-magical weapons (no need for silver versus these guys). It looks like they attempted to do this with regen as well, giving the creature itself 4hp/sec of "Instant/Permanent until death" regeneration.
However, BG2's Greater Wolfwere also has RINGWOLF.ITM equipped. In patched unmodded BG2+ToB this has no immunity to weapons effect, but does have a regeneration effect. This regen effect is 6hp/sec of "Instant/Permanent until death" regeneration.
So right on spawn, BG2's Greater Wolfwere starts at 10hp/sec regeneration. Save a game with a GWW spawned and then reload, and that ring's effect gets applied again, stacking with the previous effects, so now that GWW has 4hp/sec + 6hp/sec + 6hp/sec regen for a grand total of 16hp/sec regen. An overly cautious/experimenting player might do all manner of saves and reloads and resaves before encountering the GWWs on the map, so their regeneration could get truly ridiculous if (like me) you tend to do "load + minor gear/spell change + quicksave + attempt + reload + minor gear/spell change + quicksave + next attempt -> repeat".
The BG2fixpack changes RINGWOLF.ITM to have timing mode "Instant/While equipped" which would cap the GWW at their innate 4hp/sec + one instance of the ring's 6hp/sec regen for a grand total of 10hp/sec regen. (If one interprets this as 10hp/round instead, then this would be 1⅔ hp/sec, close enough to 2hp/sec to take home to mother, if mother rode fast and fought hard. This is the "a-ha!" moment.)
BG:EE also uses the "Instant/While equipped" timing mode for RINGWOLF.ITM, though regen is set to "5hp/sec"
So back to the "/sec" is actually "/round" speculation for the interpretation of the regeneration type 2 (currently defined by IEDSP as "Restore 'Regeneration Amount' HP every second"), then that would give our BG:EE's Greater Wolfwere a regeneration of 5hp/round, or 5/6 (0.8333…) hp/sec. I don't think many things use regen type 2 (the Ring of Regeneration and Ring of Gaxx use type 3 "Restore 1HP every 'Regeneration Amount' seconds", with the amount being 6 and 3 respectively, for 1hp/round and 2hp/round regen rates), so it's possible that a misinterpretation of regen type 2 has persisted all this time.
Does this fit with your observations? 5hp/round regen with the limited availability of magic silver weapons in BG:EE lined up with the elemental resistances definitely seems reasonably challenging (enough so to present the obstacle some who are unprepared seem to be facing) while still being possible. 30hp/round definitely seems insane.
Apologies for the long rambling discourse as I rediscover things long since beaten down by past investigators.
The net result (aka tl;dr) is that BG1's Greater Wolfwere regenerates only half as fast as BG2's Greater Wolfwere (initial spawn if unmodded). The former requires magic silver weapons (or suitable spells) to defeat; the latter only requires magic weapons or suitable spells (and if unmodded a player resistance to saving and then reloading an area with GWWs spawned).
The speculative regeneration rates are 5hp/round for BG1 and BG:EE's Greater Wolfwere, and 10hp/round for BG2's Greater Wolfweres (if not fixed by BG2fixpack or the like, this will increase by 6hp/round every time an area with the BG2 GWW is saved then reloaded).
Even my tl;dr is tl;dr.
And there is no interpretation necessary, as with a simple look at the old table the 2hp/s would nearly kill you if you take a closer look at it. Now - given your comment - the greater werewolf got even insaner regeneration...maybe he got even over 9000hp/s (what did the scouter say about his regeneration?)..oddly I just killed him
3hp/sec would definitely have been noticed over the years so I think this bolsters the idea that IEDSP et al have misidentified regen type 2 as "X HP per second" when it should be "X HP per round".
Location:
Can be looted off of Simmeon at the conclusion of Dorn's Quest
Good to know about Albruin +1. I'm sure someone will test it out in "live combat" against the GWW sooner or later.