400 fixes, Minsc is still a Ranger.
I just need to rage a little bit. Minsc was a ranger in BG because the rules used didn't have a Berserker kit.
Somebody must have thought of overhauling his original kit, is there any particular reason he was kept as is? With the BG2 rules he's just plain goofy, not to mention that his extremely low mental stats kind of make his saving throws suck, with or without his shoehorned rage skill.
Dorn outclasses the guy in every way, shape, and form, and I'm even starting to realize just how much better Khalid is(was).
Somebody must have thought of overhauling his original kit, is there any particular reason he was kept as is? With the BG2 rules he's just plain goofy, not to mention that his extremely low mental stats kind of make his saving throws suck, with or without his shoehorned rage skill.
Dorn outclasses the guy in every way, shape, and form, and I'm even starting to realize just how much better Khalid is(was).
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I agree with you 100% that Minsc is a Berserker/Barbarian not a Ranger, but the contract they agreed to while making BG:EE stated they could not change the characters at all. The only exceptions:
* Proficiency points, since the BG1 and BGII prof system is entirely different.
* Thieving skills, since the BG1 and BGII Thieving Point system is entirely different.
* Quayle's Dexterity fixed from 15, changed to 16. (Obvious oversight)
Everything else has stayed exactly the same.
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Also, mental stats have zero effect on saving throws in 2nd Edition D&D. You are thinking of 3rd Edition. The only stat modifier to saving throws is Constitution based if you are a Dwarf (Death, Wands, Spells), Halfling (Death, Wands, Spells), or Gnome (Wands, Spells).
Anyways, Khalid is the worst NPC - I'd rather him somewhere between a noblewoman and a commoner in green.
@Raklin: *Disagree. Disagree. Does not even attempt to answer question*
You're off to a great start, bud.
Also, I could have sworn that the older IE games had wis and int checks for certain spells and effects, but I didn't even bother with the manual so I'm probably wrong. Still, I hadn't seen a single confusion spell that Minsc had a successful save in.
Haha, it's okay, do yourself a favor and *don't* bother with the manual, it's riddled with errors, mistakes, and all manner of things they never actually implemented. Yeah, that's very true. "Hamsters and rangers everywhere rejoice!" etc.
Example:
I join up with Rasaad with Khalid in party. Khalid has a quick side mention that he will enjoy being in a party with a fellow Callishite.
While that does change Khalid's dialogue from the original, it is only adding something that he would most likely say had Rasaad been there (and it is a rather appropriate thing for Khalid to say).
I do agree that it is frustrating that Minsc is a Ranger and not a Berserker, but Berserker did not exist as a kit when BG1 came out, and the 'hamster' thing emphasized Ranger.
Overhaul et al had to navigate a bizarro web of rights and IP ownership to get here. I can't fuss too much. Eventually modders who have no such contract limitations will port their mods to BGx:EE and/or create new ones. Something like Level 1 NPCs would allow one to craft the Minsc of their dreams. (I think in my BGT flirtation I used Level 1 NPCs to make Minsc a barbarian.)
I'd say more, but, you know, contract limitations.
*waves hands mysteriously and disappears in a puff of puffery*
(I'm kidding about angrily disagreeing, of course)
Someone besides me, that is.
If they changed Quayle's proficiency away from maces, I'm done. I'm out of here. Last straw!
*smoke curling from forehead*
You hear that Minsc? RANGERS AND HAMSTERS EVERYWHERE, REJOICE!
I actually don't mind him as a Ranger. I feel barbarian/berserker would have been a better fit (what with him coming from a Berserker Lodge back in Rasheman and all) but they didn't exist at the time. To change him now wouldn't sit well with many folks. I know I wont be actively searching for a way to change his class.
Please note, this answer includes insights from Devs, Mods, regular 2E DMs ( @LadyRhian comes to mind here) and others.
First of all:
Minsc doesn't have the stats to be a ranger (8 wisdom) and he also has berserk as a special ability).
Response: Oh Minsc must have been a Berserker or Barbarian that they hadn't made yet.
History, insight and why Minsc is still a ranger:
Although we don't know which of the original baldur's gate team (BG1 not BGEE) made Minsc, we have been informed by Trent that all the NPCs in BG1 are based off characters that various people on the BG1 team had played in actual PnP games.
The minimum stats for your class are only applicable when you make your class (or when you dual-class) but afterwards in D&D they are fine. In this instance Minsc took a severe blow to the head, thus lowering his wisdom below the minimum wisdom requirements allowed for the ranger class. He is still a ranger however, because he met the minimum requirements at the time he was created. Furthermore, Boo also continues to represent his Ranger side.
That said, Minsc should not be capable of actually casting spells when he comes of level due to his wisdom not meeting the minimum amount required for divine spellcasting.
Minor Note: Khalid is also one of the better overall warrior companions in the game, especially if you equip him with Gauntlets of Ogre Strength. He has well balanced stats and is a fighter on top of that allowing him to reach High Mastery in longswords should you choose to.
I like Khalid, but I don't like that I can't do anything about his fate. Stupid Irenicus. If I'd had my druthers, we'd all be fishing up knucklehead trout off Lac Dinneshere after doing whatever it is we do in Baldur's Gate to game the end. (Hey, I only finished once, I can't remember what happened!)
Dual-class everyone to scrimshaw artists, that's the proper way to end the game.
Harumph.
Short answer: no
Long answer: Those points weren't put there to suggest you should dual-wield with them. All rangers and their subkits gain 2 points in two-weapon fighting for free. If you were to ignore those points and count the rest of his proficiency points and compare them to other warrior classes of his level (Fighter, Paladin, Barbarian, Blackguard) you'll see they're equal. That just happens to be a bonus that Rangers get.
edit: unless you meant spending his sword points on maces. I think moving him off two handers would cause more outcry than any other change they could make on him...short of removing Boo. But he'll eventually (by BG2 at least) get enough free slots to learn that too.
Those were some good points. I've spent so much time on streamlined combat systems that I kind of forgot that there was a time when people would create intentionally flawed characters for the added challenge.
Oh well, it's nice to have two free slots to rotate my party a bit.
Thanks for the info. Sometimes I just can't help the min-max person in me. I just thought it odd how the skill proficiency of Minsc is laid out.
"2 points in two-handed swords, 2 points in two-weapon style? This must be an oversight!"
Wisdow give more defensive bonus against Mental Spells in the AD&D rulebook. Also Dex give a help in reflex saves. (Wands , fireballs etc). In the rulebook of course. (I play AD&D pen and paper even today).
BG II is very close to AD&D rules but it have some changes.
Too bad they never implemented a minions and skill points system! Where Int and Cha would be much more important even to warriors.