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New Kit: Scion of Murder - Looking for Suggestions/Feedback

LaughingManLaughingMan Member Posts: 65
edited December 2012 in General Modding
UPDATE: Mod is done and available for download. Happy to take any feedback, ideas, etc.

Download available here: http://www.shsforums.net/files/file/1023-cleric-class-kit-scion-of-murder/

Forum thread on download site: http://www.shsforums.net/topic/55624-mod-cleric-class-kit-scion-of-murder/

SCION OF MURDER: Some of the Bhaalspawn discovered their inherited power early in life and, whether they understood its true nature or not, embraced it. Rather than devoting themselves to some existing deity these scions turned their conviction inward, cultivating their own divine spark and reaping the nascent power of their progenitor.

ALIGNMENT: Any Chaotic or Evil
"Those who both respect the rule of law and the freedom or lives of others simply lack the ethical perspective required to become a living embodiment of murder."

EQUIPMENT: Scions may use Cleric equipment and wield all one handed melee weapons. Scions have access to all styles except two-handed, and may specialize in daggers, short swords, the single weapon style, and dual wielding.
"The Bhaalspawn are Scions of murder, not wholesale slaughter. Thus they favor weapons that can be carried casually and quickly thrust between the ribs or skull of an unsuspecting enemy."

REQUIREMENTS: 12 Str, 9 Dex, 12 Wis

ADVANTAGES:
- Invisibility: Once per day at level 1, with an additional use every 4 levels thereafter
- Backstab: While invisible or otherwise hidden the Scion may backstab as a thief of the same level
- Hold Person: Once per day at level 5, with an additional use every 5 levels thereafter

DISADVANTAGES:
- None
Post edited by LaughingMan on
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Comments

  • neoespritneoesprit Member Posts: 196
    some years ago I created a priest kit : Bhaal Priest with some cool stuff (spells, items, soundset etc) but I lost everything and it was in french but as someone pointed at that time, Bhaal is dead, no longer a god. Cyric replaced him for a time (the time Baldur's Gate take place) so a specific Bhaal oriented kit for priest would be rather odd...

    You could go around the fact that there is no more divine power coming from bhaal by explaining that his essence and power are stored within each of his bhaalspawn and that thry could somhow harness it to simulate divine power...

    Some cool spells I thought about were related to blood loss, frenzy and mantle of despair etc... I had also thought about some kind of special items linked to the kit that we could find in some specific places linked to bhaal...

    I'll try to find some sort of save frome my older work and I'll gladly help in anyway I can don't hesitate to PM =)
  • LaughingManLaughingMan Member Posts: 65
    Actually, that was the whole point of the blurb at the beginning of the kit. The idea is that rather than being an actual priest in the conventional sense, a Bhaalspawn with this kit is cultivating their own shard of Bhaal's power to manifest divine abilities directly (technically "Bhaalspawn" is a requirement, but as all main characters are Bhaalspawn it seemed silly to add it).

    I'm not real solid on how to create new spells/abilities, though if anyone can point me to a straightforward tutorial or guide on the topic I'd be open to working on it. Frenzy never really struck me as Bhaal's domain, that's more appropriate for a war or madness aspected deity IMHO. Blood loss and despair though, those are good ideas to consider.
  • neoespritneoesprit Member Posts: 196
    edited December 2012
    "A wholly evil, debased, and sadistic god, Bhaal was the god of Murder, but he especially favoured violent or ritual deaths"

    Based on that you could imagine some pretty nasty spells (and not only for BG:EE but for the later to come BG2:EE), like a cloud of daggers (similar to the insect swarm of the druids but with sharp blades !), immobilization and incapacitation, death rituals, etc...

    For the frenzy I was imagining some sort of Murder frenzy (each murder commited was strengthening Bhaal), with some bonus applied on death of an opponent (don't know how's that work but I think an item from Dorn has this property - giving bonus to thaco upon death of an opponent - so that could be applied to a special amulet or symbol of bhaal acting as a catalyst of the divine heritage of CHARNAME ... ^^


    For the items and spells creation I don't remember very well how that worked, shouldn't be to different but you'll need NI, DLTCEP and a good text editor like Context or something like that =p

    If I were you I'd go search info on the Gibberling 3 or Spellhold studios forums ;)
  • ArcticArctic Member Posts: 76
    give him a blackstab modifier as the assasing one, you will have to use invisibiliti for it , but still ...
    you can add more uses of invisivility to that if you want
  • LaughingManLaughingMan Member Posts: 65
    Oh, I know how to get into the files and everything. I just don't know what values to put where to create new spells. Items are somewhat easier, unless you're getting fancy. Without a solid reference (which I have not found) it's all a little too much stumbling about in the dark for me.

    I've been going back and forth on the backstab thing... given the limited uses of invisibility though, it may be worth adding. I don't want to overpower the kit though.
  • neoespritneoesprit Member Posts: 196
    Ok so I've been sniffing around trying to find some info on ny old kit and I found a thread on a french modding forum were I developed the kit.

    Apparently, the backstab ability was a hardcoded thing and could not be implemented for other class than Thief and Thief Kit. Dunno if that's changed now though, or that I was unable to do it back then...

    About the spells : I had some chain lightning renamed as "Bhaal Torture" spell (for higher char in BG2), some Chaos spell, and a fireball spell renamed as "Mass Murder" hahaha

    I also planned to add some "Ruse" spell, that could invoke some shadows assassins ... but all of my work was for BG2 and ToB, never had time to work on the HLA table though... or maybe just a draft ^^

    Back then, we also talked about creating some special quests for the bhaal priest, along with a Bhaal Symbol, and some sort of crazy idea were the bhaalspawn would absorb some of his brethern soulpower by slaying them, making him more powerful ! (Hello Highlander's Quickening xD)

    But I'm diverging... a lot xD

    The base idea here is to create something fun to play but not over powered and it's very hard to do for BG only... the max level is around 12 (counting on a full playthrough) and that does not leave much space to develop a kit fully ... you have to keep in mind the global thing, from level 1 to 40 (max level in ToB)=/
  • neoespritneoesprit Member Posts: 196
    Any news on your kit ? did u figure out the spells problems you had ?
  • ArcticArctic Member Posts: 76
    I doubt backstab is hardcoded to thiefs since you can get it as a kitted ranger.
  • neoespritneoesprit Member Posts: 196
    yup apparently the stalker can use the backstab... I looked into NI but can't find how's that work =/
  • LaughingManLaughingMan Member Posts: 65
    edited December 2012
    I did, everything is working now. I haven't tried to implement the backstab thing yet, I'll play with that tomorrow or Friday night and see how it plays. Still not fully satisfied with the current ability list, I think I'm going to create a custom spell after all to replace the hold person and power word abilities.

    I'm thinking something like "marked for death" that hits with a combo of slow (preferably just slowing movement if there's an opcode for that) glitterdust (maybe with lower penalties) and damage over time. The "fluff" would be wracking pain and shredding of tissue as you close in for the kill.

    If/when BG2:EE comes out, I may add an HLA that effectively stops time, dimension doors you to the target, and straight-up murders them in the face with multiple stab wounds. Not a true time-stop effect though, more like a tiny cut scene attack. :P

    Regardless I'll zip everything up and put it up on Google Drive for people to look at sometime this weekend.

    Edit/Addendum:

    I think I'm going to create a series of these kits, one for every core class. For wizard I may opt to just pump up the necromancer kit and add more "Bhaalspawn" flavor to it. For thieves the abilities will be nearly identical to the cleric kit. For fighters I'll probably go with some tricks to make targets more vulnerable or something. Paladins and Rangers are too "good" for something like this, and bards would probably get a tweaked version of the thief. Not sure about druids, though they seem like a natural fit for the concept.
  • neoespritneoesprit Member Posts: 196
    aaah glad you could make it work ;)

    If you want I could cook up a list of badass special abilities and spells for the Scion of Murder (at least the description on BG format, and maybe the actual spells - I've been poking around NI and DLTCEP and I'm starting to retrieve some handy skills ^^) maybe some portrait and even soundset eventually ^^

    I'll wait your upload of the Kit to check the files and I'll PM you some ideas of what's feasible or not =)

    For the backstabing I still don't see how you could make that work X_X
  • LaughingManLaughingMan Member Posts: 65
    I'm pretty sure there's a way to add backstab without messing with the hardcoding issues.

    If nothing else I could probably make a custom version of invisibility that also applied opcode 0x107, as that's the only time the Scion would be able to backstab. Though that would take a lot of trial and error to tune that effect properly, as opcodes can be weird.
  • neoespritneoesprit Member Posts: 196
    should be possible yep, but modifying the backstab.2da has no effect on other classes, and I don't see anywhere the backstab table used for the stalker kit (ranger kit)

    Or maybe you could modify the invisibility spell and make a special version that permit a x2 damage when you strike under the spell. I don't think that should be superior to x2 since it could become too powerful !)
  • LaughingManLaughingMan Member Posts: 65
    As I said, there will be some tuning involved if I opt for it. Making the multiplier level based and identical to the thief or stalker wouldn't be too bad if I toned down the other features, since it would generally only work with invisibility running. Using the thief backstab also comes with the weapon restrictions on backstab, which I don't think would apply to the opcode.

    The Stalker gets backstab via "AP_CL332", which I'll need to look into next time I sit down with this. 4332 isn't in the list of identifiers in the IESDP, so I don't know much about it at the moment. I'll just have to crack open CL332.spl and see how it works.
  • neoespritneoesprit Member Posts: 196
    aaaah nice ! I didn't check the spell on the stalker so that's where it was hidden ^^

    I'll also look into it i'm curious ^^
  • MathsorcererMathsorcerer Member Posts: 3,042
    It applies effect 263, the "stat: backstab" modifier. That class ability, which is also used by the assassin kit, adds to the current backstab multiplier. A very high-level assassin's backstab, at 7 times normal, is a beauty to behold.
  • LaughingManLaughingMan Member Posts: 65
    @Mathsorcerer Excellent, thank you for clarifying that point for us. Have you had any experience with applying that effect to other classes to see how it plays?
  • MathsorcererMathsorcerer Member Posts: 3,042
    I have never applied it to a class or kit but it would be easy to edit the appropriate CLABxxxx.2da file and insert GA_SPCL332 at some point, which will add the backstab to the kit. I *have* added that effect to the Short Sword of Backstabbing before so that backstabs are more lethal with that particular sword (set the effect to "while equipped"); adding the "backstab every hit" effect made it incredibly overpowered.
  • LaughingManLaughingMan Member Posts: 65
    I know how to setup class abilities and whatnot, I'm just wondering if there are any hardcoded hurdles built into backstab that I should expect when applying it to a priest.
  • MathsorcererMathsorcerer Member Posts: 3,042
    Oh, that. No, I don't think so but I have never tried it that way.
  • LaughingManLaughingMan Member Posts: 65
    So I got it all worked out and tested it. Works like a charm. The only issue I can is that if you dual classed from Scion into thief, the backstab multipliers might add together.

    A minor issue, but worth noting.

    Final layout of perks are Invisibility (self only) every 4 levels (plus 1 at 1st level), Hold Person every 5, and backstab. Backstab doesn't seem to end up being all that overpowered unless you set up a way to turn invisible a lot more often. If you already have a straight up combat rogue in the party, then it really doesn't make your party much stronger to have an extra backstabber unless you *really* work at it.

    I need to tidy everything up and package the mod. I'll probably have it up somewhere for download this weekend.
  • gesellegeselle Member Posts: 325
    Power Word:Kill at 15 is quite overpowered don't you think? It's a level 9 spell as a innate ability and he gets the spell even before wizards and sorcerers do.
  • LaughingManLaughingMan Member Posts: 65
    @geselle if you read the more recent comments you'll see I got rid of that. Instead a constrained backstab (as the kit has no stealth skill) and slower progression for the hold person innate (which, you'll note, starts becoming available at the same time the spell is available on the cleric list).
  • gesellegeselle Member Posts: 325
    Could you update the opening post? You would avoid a lot confusion.
    Btw. Scion would be an amazing 3rd edition prestige class.
  • LaughingManLaughingMan Member Posts: 65
    edited December 2012
    @geselle Done and done.

    I kept thinking the same thing, but that's true of a number of other kits too. :)
  • neoespritneoesprit Member Posts: 196
    Nice @LaughingMan ! This give me so much ideas but I lack the time and skills to make them happen x)

    If I may say, you kit package is weirdly put together. You should have a folder name Scion of Murder (with subfolders for spells, items (if that come later), .2da etc) along with just the tp2 and setup.

    Anyway we packaged things like that back then to avoid loose files everywhere in the data folder =p
  • LaughingManLaughingMan Member Posts: 65
    @neoesprit Everything should either be in the override folder or the ScionMod folder, nothing should end up anywhere else.

    Is there something I missed?

    I only kept the folder name short (along with everything else) because the tutorial (which is years old now) suggested as much.
  • KamigoroshiKamigoroshi Member Posts: 5,870
    Lovely! There really is a lack of vile cleric kits out there, especially ones which are compatible with BG:EE. There is but one thing I'd like to see change:


    ALIGNMENT: Any Chaotic or Evil
    "Those who both respect the rule of law and the freedom or lives of others simply lack the ethical perspective required to become a living embodiment of murder."

    While certainly they do not abide the law, Chaotic Good people still highly value freedom and the lives of others. Giving that, I *really* don't think they should be able to become Scions of Murder... which they strangely can atm. Actually, since Bhaal was(/is) Lawful Evil I'd suggest to limit the alignments for SoM to evil only.

  • neoespritneoesprit Member Posts: 196
    Just tried it and it's working as far as creating the character and starting the adventure goes will test more later.

    Just a side note, If you want to use this along the Requiem's Kitpack, install scion of murder first. Sadly one of the Requiem's kit will not appear due to kit limitation per classes (seriously Beamdog couldn't past this limitation it's a shame)
  • LaughingManLaughingMan Member Posts: 65
    @Kamigoroshi If I was taking a more purist approach to things I'd agree. However, I've always preferred looser alignment constraints on classes, and let the actions of that class redefine alignment in play.

    The fact is that, in DnD settings (regardless of edition), murder for fame and profit is almost always the characters' careers. Good vs. Evil has more to do with target and motive than methods. So in thinking about the class I had the following considerations in mind:

    - The Scion is not a disciple of Bhaal, but an individual infused with the portfolio of murder. Murder is a chaotic or evil act, but can just as easily be Chaotic Good (murder a tyrant and overthrow an evil regime) as Lawful Evil (trick someone into a position so as to murder them within the bounds of local law).

    - As the Scion is taking ownership of that concept, they need to have an ethos that makes such "synchronization" possible, if not necessarily easy. Any Evil makes this simple, Chaotic Neutral just as much so. TN, LN, NG, and LG are all too far from the core ideas that lead to murder (rather than lethal combat). Chaotic Good, though, in most games I've played has had no problem using assassination to fight evil.

    - I'm also the sort of DM/GM that makes assassins and similar classes open to Good alignments, if they serve a role that makes sense. This is in that same vein.

    So I feel your position is completely valid, but prefer my own interpretation of alignment and ethics.

    @neoesprit I know right? You'd think that would be a simple fix, comparably.
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