I'm looking at making an elf assassin for my next play through. Should I use a short bow and short sword to get the elves racial bonus or should I use darts for the 3 APR and the dagger of venom?
It's a tough one, some things to bear in mind, though:
You can get the +2 short sword much earlier than you can raise enough gold (unless you sell the ring of wizardry or something crazy like that) to buy the dagger of venom, and you get the extra +1 elf THAC0, so it's almost a +3 short sword. There is a +3 short sword available very late in the game too.
The magic +x to hit/damage of both bows and arrows stack, so if using a +1 shortbow and +1 arrows, for an elf that's +3 to hit and +1 damage. Bows still get 2 APR, which is pretty decent. There is a also wider range of magic ammo (still, even with the new magic darts available in High Hedge). and enemies drop it more often. Bow has a longer range, though not much more, as sight range is limited to 30'
@cbarchuck Hell, with the bonus applying to all swords you could do pretty much anything melee wise...
As for ranged: The most APR you can get with darts is 3. So that's 3d3/round, or 3-9 damage a round. The most APR you can get with short bows is 2. So that's 2d6/round, or 2-12 damage a round.
That of course doesn't even consider dexterity bonuses and racial bonuses with short bows; short bows would be the obvious answer.
Note: I'm talking strictly about a level 10 thief.
Thanks for the help guys. 2 more questions: Since I can only get an 18 in strength, is it even worth it to backstab or should I just stick to the bow? Lastly, since my thieving points are only 15 per level, should I put all of them into Move Silently every level due to how stealth works?
@cbarchuck Backstab is 2x, 3x, 4x, 5x, 6x, and eventually 7x damage for assassins by the end of BG2... Strength and all magical enhancements to damage are calculated in this, so yes, you should use backstab.
You should put more into Move Silently than Hide in Shadows as it is used to keep you hidden. Hide in Shadows is only used to initially get hidden (used in conjunction with move silently, via using the average of both values).
As for ranged: The most APR you can get with darts is 3. So that's 3d3/round, or 3-9 damage a round. The most APR you can get with short bows is 2. So that's 2d6/round, or 2-12 damage a round.
That of course doesn't even consider dexterity bonuses and racial bonuses with short bows; short bows would be the obvious answer.
Probably, though darts get more poisoned attacks...
@Oxford_Guy The Dagger of Venom isn't necessarily the best thief weapon in the game... Often enemies make the save against the poison. However, if he's partial to the dagger he can still dual wield with the dagger in his off hand; it's not that bad of an option (and it would be used as the primary weapon during backstab, due to it having the faster weapon speed, which is what you would want it for anyway).
There are also more types/options of ammunition available for a short bow user than a dart user. And if the darts DID get more damage in the end with the poisoned attacks, it would only be when the assassin uses the poison weapon ability, which early on is only 1/day.
@Oxford_Guy The Dagger of Venom isn't necessarily the best thief weapon in the game... Often enemies make the save against the poison. However, if he's partial to the dagger he can still dual wield with the dagger in his off hand; it's not that bad of an option (and it would be used as the primary weapon during backstab, due to it having the faster weapon speed, which is what you would want it for anyway).
True, though an assassin can only put one pip into dual-wielding, so will get terrible THAC0 (which isn't great to start with for thieves). For an assassin I prefer single-weapon style for the double chance of a critical.
BTW the best weapon to backstab with in BGEE is the Staff of Striking - it uses a charge per strike, but that's fine if you just use it for backstabs. You can't get it until v.late in the game, though.
There are also more types/options of ammunition available for a short bow user than a dart user. And if the darts DID get more damage in the end with the poisoned attacks, it would only be when the assassin uses the poison weapon ability, which early on is only 1/day.
Personally I agree the shortbow is a better choice, especially for an elf, but I wanted to make the pros and cons clear to the original poster. Darts and daggers are quite fun from a role-play perspective, though. :-)
True, though an assassin can only put one pip into dual-wielding, so will get terrible THAC0 (which isn't great to start with for thieves). For an assassin I prefer single-weapon style for the double chance of a critical.
There are items that can counteract the THAC0 problems for dual-wielding. But yes, single-weapon style assassins are also pretty fun to play.
BTW the best weapon to backstab with in BGEE is the Staff of Striking - it uses a charge per strike, but that's fine if you just use it for backstabs. You can't get it until v.late in the game, though.
If it's like the one in BG2, it doesn't act as an enchanted item (i.e. for hitting things like wolfweres, etc.). Also, what kind of assassin uses a long stick to kill people? :P
Also, that's a deviation from P&P. In P&P you were only allowed to backstab with daggers and short swords (2e AD&D).
True, though an assassin can only put one pip into dual-wielding, so will get terrible THAC0 (which isn't great to start with for thieves). For an assassin I prefer single-weapon style for the double chance of a critical.
There are items that can counteract the THAC0 problems for dual-wielding. But yes, single-weapon style assassins are also pretty fun to play.
BTW the best weapon to backstab with in BGEE is the Staff of Striking - it uses a charge per strike, but that's fine if you just use it for backstabs. You can't get it until v.late in the game, though.
If it's like the one in BG2, it doesn't act as an enchanted item (i.e. for hitting things like wolfweres, etc.). Also, what kind of assassin uses a long stick to kill people? :P
Also, that's a deviation from P&P. In P&P you were only allowed to backstab with daggers and short swords (2e AD&D).
I didn't know that, but then BG is different from PnP in many respects. For cleric/thieves it's probably just as well you can use staves, though!
Comments
You can get the +2 short sword much earlier than you can raise enough gold (unless you sell the ring of wizardry or something crazy like that) to buy the dagger of venom, and you get the extra +1 elf THAC0, so it's almost a +3 short sword. There is a +3 short sword available very late in the game too.
The magic +x to hit/damage of both bows and arrows stack, so if using a +1 shortbow and +1 arrows, for an elf that's +3 to hit and +1 damage. Bows still get 2 APR, which is pretty decent. There is a also wider range of magic ammo (still, even with the new magic darts available in High Hedge). and enemies drop it more often. Bow has a longer range, though not much more, as sight range is limited to 30'
You could go dagger + shortbow as a compromise?
As for ranged:
The most APR you can get with darts is 3. So that's 3d3/round, or 3-9 damage a round.
The most APR you can get with short bows is 2. So that's 2d6/round, or 2-12 damage a round.
That of course doesn't even consider dexterity bonuses and racial bonuses with short bows; short bows would be the obvious answer.
Note: I'm talking strictly about a level 10 thief.
You should put more into Move Silently than Hide in Shadows as it is used to keep you hidden. Hide in Shadows is only used to initially get hidden (used in conjunction with move silently, via using the average of both values).
-Prince_of_Lies
There are also more types/options of ammunition available for a short bow user than a dart user. And if the darts DID get more damage in the end with the poisoned attacks, it would only be when the assassin uses the poison weapon ability, which early on is only 1/day.
-Prince_of_Lies
BTW the best weapon to backstab with in BGEE is the Staff of Striking - it uses a charge per strike, but that's fine if you just use it for backstabs. You can't get it until v.late in the game, though. Personally I agree the shortbow is a better choice, especially for an elf, but I wanted to make the pros and cons clear to the original poster. Darts and daggers are quite fun from a role-play perspective, though. :-)
Also, that's a deviation from P&P. In P&P you were only allowed to backstab with daggers and short swords (2e AD&D).
I didn't know that, but then BG is different from PnP in many respects. For cleric/thieves it's probably just as well you can use staves, though!
-Prince_of_Lies