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Planning some paid DLC

KharadorKharador Member Posts: 215
Yes dudes what a shame. Trent Oster was said that the new content probably were paid. I think those guys would make content with some common sense. But have jumped on the money train. This is very bad news...

@TrentOster: We'll be doing free feature improvements and existing content improvements as we go, but we are also planning some paid DLC.
Post edited by Tanthalas on
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Comments

  • AndreaColomboAndreaColombo Member Posts: 5,525
    edited June 2012
    @Kharador - ehrm, this doesn't really look like a feature request (I gotta do the boards' cop job, you see ;-)).

    Besides, I believe Trent meant they are planning to develop some additional new content beside the new NPC and adventures that have already been announced for BG:EE (and which will be included in the game when it ships), and said content will be optional and to be paid for.
  • KharadorKharador Member Posts: 215
    edited June 2012
    @AndreaColombo sorry about the threat Judge Colombo.
    I know what the dlc is. Another tale told to the fans for take us our money.
  • mch202mch202 Member Posts: 1,455
    edited June 2012
    well depends what is the scale of the DLC... if its like Trials of the loremaster in IWD, im in, because it was great addition. also if it helps to bring to life future projects such as IWD:EE or new rpg, its fine by me..

    p.s
    BG1+2 are big enough and complete games so you dont have to use DLC in order to enjoy them, unlike DA:O
  • ElectricMonkElectricMonk Member Posts: 599
    edited June 2012
    Eh, I'm rather against DLC. It seems like there is only a need for it in this case due to pandering to iPad consumers, which is why they feel that they can't charge more for the game itself, creating a necessity for supplemental BG:EE profits.

    While this does annoy me, the whole phenomenon of DLC only persists due to the consumers. People just convince themselves that it's reasonable to buy a game and then pay for additional parts of the game that should have been there in the first place. "Well, it's only $10..." but then before you know it you've spent well over $100 and many months collecting the pieces of a complete game (obviously not referring to BG:EE here, but other games with DLC).

    The only reason (apart from the fact that the iPad app market is setting the price of the game) that could reasonably cause a need for this is that it's the first product being released by BeamDog. They have time constraints to release a profitable product to make sure that they're not just putting money into something that doesn't end up selling well, so getting the game out and then continuing to work as it makes money is reasonable. I do sincerely hope, however, that this idea doesn't persist to future releases once the company is established. I understand that the DLC will be "optional," and that they of course won't withhold anything besides additional new content, but that doesn't change my point. I want a game to be completed before it's released. Maybe I'm in the minority here, but when I buy a game, I want a complete game, and I'm more than willing to pay for a complete game when I buy it. Paid DLC, single player games that require play through a server/over an internet connection, and overbearing anti-piracy measures that inconvenience paying customers are at the top of my list of things that I seriously dislike in games.

    I will of course be buying BG:EE and the DLC as well because, as I've said before, I want to support this team, and hope others do too. I want to see new isometric party-based RPG's come out, and I think this is a great dev team that can provide.
  • NWN_babaYagaNWN_babaYaga Member Posts: 732
    edited June 2012
    Some big companies misuse the DLC as an excuse for their unfinished business or to be precise to fix and finish their betabuilds by release. So this use of DLC is paid patching at first hand with some added and awesome new things....haha!

    But in common the DLC trend is an innovation for a games longevity when the company makes the right way of use. And every company needs to be paid for work to keep doing their business. So all in all when the use of DLC is fair and for all parties balanced It rocks.!
  • ElysElys Member Posts: 100
    edited June 2012
    @jaysl659: A game can be initially complete and still expanded later. For example what Tales of the Sword Coast is to Baldur's Gate, what Lord of Destruction is to Diablo II. There is plenty of such cases. There is always a possibility to potentially expand a game in one way or another.

    Same goes for DLC. It's not because it might be released afterward, that the initial game is not considered complete without them.

    Or did you mean you are against any kind of expansion post release?
    Me I love expansions. It's one of the main reason I like the whole Baldur's Gate experience. Because I could enjoy one after the other: BG,ToSC,BG2 &+TOB prolonging the life of CHARMAN with more fun hours. It's like Baldur's Gate had been super expanded ^^

    The only part I don't like in DLC (where they are legitimate and not content removed from the original development) is the DL part, the downloadable aspect certainly most often tied to DRM mechanisms. Like you I despise games that requires Internet authentification and whatnot.
  • ElectricMonkElectricMonk Member Posts: 599
    edited June 2012
    @Elys Well to me there is a large difference between an expansion such as Tales of the Sword Coast, which was nearly as expansive as BG1 itself, and paying for a character pack, etc. It's just a different feeling when there's another new bit of a game being put up for sale every month or so. Expansions such as ToTSC and ToB are huge additions, ToB was essentially an entirely new game that continued the plot of BG1&2 and spanned as many levels as the two of them combined. So I find there to be a fine line between deciding to work on a successful game post-release in order to release an expansion to it, and planning to release many small things over time.

    Downloadable additions are also a concern due to their ties to DRM, but as Trent has already mentioned, they are obligated by their publisher to implement some sort of DRM into BG:EE...


    Despite my feelings towards DLC in modern games, I believe that it will be done in BG:EE in a way that is as convenient as possible and with as little hassle and frustration to the players as possible, as making things as fun and hassle free as possible seems to be a core tenant of the BeamDog philosophy.
  • ElysElys Member Posts: 100
    edited June 2012
    @jaysl659: I see what you mean. Me I like small addons. they help fill the time gap between a potential larger expansion or sequel.

    Then after its matter of price vs content to choose if it's worthy or not. It's true there is many DLC sold around that took only little time to build but are sold more than their content value.

    However there is another consideration to take into account about overpriced DLC. I think if the DLC business remains successful, we might eventually see attempt of "underpriced" original release, with companies trying to reap more benefits afterward with DLC. Or say otherwise, lure customer easily first, and charge them once they're hooked XD
  • ElectricMonkElectricMonk Member Posts: 599
    Just to clarify my position, I guess I don't really have all that much against post-release content in principle. The problem is the application of it in modern game which all too often is in the form of withholding content for the purpose of releasing it post-ship for a fee; and because this is such a prevalent application of post-release content, the whole idea of it annoys me. If a development team works as hard as can be reasonably expected for however long they have to work on a game and then, after having released a completed product, decide that there is more that they want to do with the game, I have no problem with that. I still prefer this in the form of an expansion over several smaller releases, which is just a personal preference issue, I suppose it's just the stigma I've attached to DLC in my mind.
  • mch202mch202 Member Posts: 1,455
    @Elys Well to me there is a large difference between an expansion such as Tales of the Sword Coast, which was nearly as expansive as BG1 itself, and paying for a character pack, etc. It's just a different feeling when there's another new bit of a game being put up for sale every month or so.
    @jaysl659 I dont think that its the case in BG:EE , I dont see why would anyone pay for a character pack.. its something that mods bring you for free, And to our luck the modding scene of BG is big enough to do just that.

    If they will release a DLC, I belive it will be an extra adventure (Maybe like my Idea to explore the gnoll stronghold ) or something like Trial of the Luremaster, something worth to pay for!
  • cmorgancmorgan Member Posts: 707
    I doubt that will be a serious problem with this particular title. BG:EE folks have made sure to explain that they have an eye out for mod compatability issues, and that means the free DLC (the mods) from over a decade of development is already likely to be direct competition, raising the bar on what constitutes an appropriate add-on. No "Prothean Conspiracy Theory" really is possible here - and Skyrim, Mount & Blade, Rome:Total War, BG/BG2, etc. have shown games that allow a good modding community to develop have extreme longevity. If a company is working for the long term, they won't clobber themselves by scrimping up front. After all, if players don't flock to the door initially, there is not going to be a big community.

    This game comes with a pre-generated fanbase, a community of experienced modders, a huge legacy as the "groundbreaking CRPG against which all others are to be judged", etc. No pressure there.... none at all...
  • ElysElys Member Posts: 100
    edited June 2012
    @jaysl659: I'm right with you on that point. Sadly I don't think that gonna change anytime soon, since DLC apparently works well as they keep making them. Even if a game developing team just want to release a full a game as-is, I guess they will be pressured by the mother-company or the publisher to use some of their resources to create DLC while still working on the main game, if not just for special editions or exclusives and then of course for greed :p
  • TanthalasTanthalas Member Posts: 6,738
    The thing with DLC today, is that games actually get criticized for not having DLC.

    After FFXIII was released, I kept seeing people asking for DLC on message boards.
  • ElysElys Member Posts: 100
    edited June 2012

    After FFXIII was released, I kept seeing people asking for DLC on message boards.
    Square Enix should have made a Chocobo Armor DLC and sell it few bucks. Then maybe these people would have stopped complaining about the lack of DLC. xD
  • mch202mch202 Member Posts: 1,455
    edited June 2012
    Trent Oster ‏@TrentOster

    DLC=Downloadable Content, not furry earrings +3. The big guys have overcooked the term with badness. New BG storylines, New characters.

  • NWN_babaYagaNWN_babaYaga Member Posts: 732
    edited June 2012
    Good news and i had faith in them anyway;)

    Post edited by NWN_babaYaga on
  • brixbrix Member Posts: 43
    As long as it keeps the franchise running, I'll support it. I have also faith, that this will be awesome stuff! So keep going guys!
  • gesellegeselle Member Posts: 325
    I'm concerned, that many people might boycott BG:EE, since to many people paid DLC is a synonym for exploiting good franchise for the sake of earning extra money. And lets face it, no DLCs reach the content/money ratio of a full expansion.
  • SeldarSeldar Member Posts: 438
    If new DLCs are like ToSC or Trials of the Luremaster it's ok... but if they do only one new character/one new quest/only one new area... without me
  • MedillenMedillen Member Posts: 632
    Well, for the moment, first objective is still BGEE ^_^ We should worry about DLC when they come about, shouldn't we ? But I have great expectations, since free mods will still be available and/or makable. Some of those are of high quality. Lets face it, DLC have to be better then those :) Its simple economy rule of offer and demand. If free mods have high standards, DLC will have higher standards - or suffer from 0 demand. Nothing to worry about.
  • Girth_WargearGirth_Wargear Member Posts: 10
    I'm for it. Continued work on BG makes me happy
  • DMZDMZ Member Posts: 39
    My opinion on paid DLC differs by game. It is true, the BG community knows exactly what was in the original game and Beamdog's reputation will suffer horribly if at release people find out that content is missing and being offered as paid DLC. Having said that, I am neutral on the question of DLC in BGEE.

    Yes, it may bring us new and great adventures at a cheap price the first few months/years. But the trend I have seen with companies and DLC is that the bigger the company gets, the less the developers care about players and offering a good experience and the more they care about money. It pains me to say that Beamdog and Overhaul are most likely heading that way too if BGEE is successful. I have seen some of the best studios go that way:

    Bioware (my favourite developer prior to DA:O)
    DICE (Battlefield)
    And a few other good developers.

    I hope that Overhaul and Beamdog will be less like EA/Ubisoft in the future and slightly more like Valve, who until now have maintained a good balance between paid DLC and fleshed-out games. I also hope, that while they give us DLC, they will also leave at least the same amount of room for modders to create their own content. This last part has been vanishing rather quickly in games nowadays, which concerns me as a BG fanboy.

    In short: Overhaul and Beamdog, I hope that you will at least stay old-school for now, with attention to detail and fans that ruled about ten years ago. DLC is fine by me as long as it is worth the money, like Heart of Winter or Tales of the Sword Coast, or even Throne of Bhaal if you feel generous. Make all the DLC you want, but leave the modders enough breathing room to create mods just as good or better as yours.

    -DMZ-
  • kamuizinkamuizin Member Posts: 3,704
    edited July 2012
    While i understand that BG:EE is a low profitable project (by the low price they intent to charge on the download of the game), i don't see a paid DLC with good eyes on BG for several reasons.

    As a Baldur's Gate Enhanced Edition game, with all the limits on the develop, the game probally will be something as an upgrade from the Baldur's Gate original. With that in mind i wish just to remember that the Covenant rights granted in terms of use for Baldur's Gate foresee exactly the rights of use on the software and not the possession or material ownership of the software.

    This is done cos 1° - software are not considered object in law terms (at least from the points of view i read until now, and i didn't lock myself on my country doctrine only); 2° - it's a way to prevent ppl of exploit the game without proper permissions, as install it in lanhouse to multiple users; 3° avoid ppl of copy the game and repass it with or without economic interest...

    There are other reasons but it's not the proper place to discuss them here, but my point is:

    We already have the rights for Baldur's Gate as everyone here has brought it one time. With no visible change on the game mechanisms, it's somehow confuse and even debatable what will be the product called BG:EE that comes to be put for sale.

    I love the game and i entirely support this BG:EE, i know that even if Beamdog and Overhaul as legal entities had some profitable interest on the game, the reason for this enhance is far greater than economic value, but DLCs are dangeours in an enhanced game.

    Why DLCs are dangeours? cos the original content of the game was already been exposed in the old game, if this "new game" come lacking some of the original content of the old game, and latter charge for a DLC with it, that would be charging 2x for the same product. I, at least, will feel a lot cheated if that happens.

    worse yet, some new DLCs can can come from an already existent mod or at least based in one what will generate conflict with the owner of the rights of those mods.


    My opinion: raise the price of the BG:EE if the problem is financial, but avoid DLCs here, on an enhanced project for an already existing game they can be a recipe for disaster.

    I just want to help with this post, i hope ppl don't get me wrong, but in my country for example what i exposed above about the DLCs may be interpreted as the sell of something for what we already have the rights, and if so, would be piracy to download without paying something i already have the right to have?

    This is not an article but a personal opinion, i didn't make a research do write this post however i don't raised it without knowledge of the matter. Maybe we can avoid the problem here before it becomes a snowball, just hope this is taken into account.
  • RisingsunRisingsun Member Posts: 99
    If they go with the Fallout 3 or Fallout: New Vegas approach to DLC, then I dont mind at all. Big sizable additions to an already large and fully featured game. The additions also let the developers do crazy things with the game or go to place you never thought the series would go. Lots of new characters and items. They were practically mini-expansion.

    I found the approach that Bioware took in Dragon Age and Mass Effect 3 in particular a little upsetting. Dragon Age Origins contained too much optional DLC and packs that after a certain point i stopped paying attention or caring even when the additions added to the overal narrative. Some of the additions where great, others like the Wardens keep was a bit disheartening: http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2009/11/6/

    In Mass Effect 3, unless you bought the Collector's edition or paid $10 you missed out on a character who really added a lot of perspective to the entire franchise.

  • TanthalasTanthalas Member Posts: 6,738
    @kamuizin

    I seriously doubt they're going to remove content from the original game to sell as DLC. I'm sure that they're planning brand new content for DLC.
  • WispWisp Member Posts: 1,102
    If Baldur's Gate had been made today, Durlag's Tower, Werewolf Isle and Ice Island would have been three separate DLCs. I wouldn't be surprised if the DLC we see from Beamdog is new content following the same general pattern (though hopefully a bit longer and more meaningful than Ice Island).
  • smeagolheartsmeagolheart Member Posts: 7,963
    If I know there's DLC coming for a game then I'm usually tempted to just wait until the "gold edition" to even buy the game that way you get all the patches and DLCs at once for one price.

    I'll see how it goes though here, I'm cautiosly optimistic and a huge baldur's gate fan.
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