I've never seen the point of BG1/BGee as being to assemble a party of the six strongest available characters. So long as you've got all of the essential skills represented somewhere in your party, it's perfectly feasible to win. A significant part of the wonderful replayability of this game is the option of choosing a different party and finding strategies which suit that party.
I'm using Rasaad in my current run, and so far he's performing okay. I disagree with @GoodSteve's prescription so far as the early part of the game goes, Rasaad is simply too fragile to front-line until he's got a few levels under his belt, so I've mostly held him back and had him slinging. (Yes, I do realise that Darts would be a more natural choice for Rasaad than Sling, but I wanted to test how well he worked with a sling.) Now I've got to the point where he's toughened up a bit, and I could send him to the front (at least some of the time) without him getting killed in one round, although I've got a couple of warriors out front and don't usually need Rasaad to do that.
So he's still mostly slinging for the time being, and as it turns out he's not bad at that - he hits quite often and quite hard even though it's only 1 APR. He's not a death-machine, but he's making a noticeable contribution and getting some kills. A Monk is never going to be outstanding in combat until we reach BG2 levels, that's the nature of the Monk class, but he's not useless.
So would I agree that he's one of the weaker NPCs? Yes, of course.
But do I think he sucks? No, that'd be going too far, he's definitely usable.
I agree that Rasaad's overall combat abilities are quite limited. (I've had him up until the bandit camp, he's level 5 now and using the wakisashi +1, I even gave him the gauntlets of expertise, and I think the total experience kill value he has is 4% of the party. Although to be fair he is competing with my kensai and Dorn)
However! The fact that they included a monk at all I see as a big success and if they allow him to follow us into BGII:EE he might become the BG version of the ugly duckling. I really like the fact that some classes are better than others but that it changes during different parts of the game. You might have to pull his weight now, but when he's karate-chop insta-killing everything in sight you might have to adress your complaints.
That said, I still think he recieved a rather short end of the stick concerning his physical stats, another point in either strength, dex or con would have done him justice (16/16/14 if I remember correct?). But the main reason that he looks bad is simply because all the other three new NPCs are so very good. Compare him to Garrick and he's godlike.
If you actually used Garrick to the full potential of any pure class Bard, he is actually a surprisingly useful character. Moreso than Rasaad, I would argue. Just sayin'. Not to take anything away from Rasaad in observing that, though.
If you actually used Garrick to the full potential of any pure class Bard, he is actually a surprisingly useful character. Moreau than Rasaad, I would argue. Just sayin'. Not to take anything away from Rasaad in observing that, though.
Don't get me wrong. I am probably one of the most ardent bard lovers on this forum. But Garrick has a god awful attribute spread and is one of the reasons (if not the biggest) people think so little of bards in BG.
Khalid sucks, Rasaad sucks, Dynaheir sucks, Xan sucks, Jaheira sucks... Stop it already...every character in this game sucks until you find out, how to use him/her properly.
Khalid sucks, Rasaad sucks, Dynaheir sucks, Xan sucks, Jaheira sucks... Stop it already...every character in this game sucks until you find out, how to use him/her properly.
I agree, according to these forums every NPC/Enemy/Build either sucks or is over powered, often times both.
If you actually used Garrick to the full potential of any pure class Bard, he is actually a surprisingly useful character. Moreau than Rasaad, I would argue. Just sayin'. Not to take anything away from Rasaad in observing that, though.
Don't get me wrong. I am probably one of the most ardent bard lovers on this forum. But Garrick has a god awful attribute spread and is one of the reasons (if not the biggest) people think so little of bards in BG.
It's about what Bards can do, really, provided that their stats aren't somehow insanely gimped, which I don't think Garrick's are.
I'm talking about using Garrick to his fullest potential, mind you:
In addition to identifying items and pickpocketing (okay, the former is mainly a convenience and the latter just adds fun, but they're still darned nice), you can have any bard use wands of Sleep, Horror, Paralyzation, Frost, Lightning, Monster Summoning, Fire, and Polymorphing. Plus all the useful spare spell scrolls from loot drops (and there are a lot). This in addition to the spells a Bard can already memorize. Garrick has a prof in Crossbow; when using the Light Crossbow of Speed and bolts of lightning and biting he is very effective. When he's hasted that crossbow is practically like a machine gun.
You don't even have to buy wands for him. A ton of them are dropped.
If you actually use Garrick this way, he more than pulls his weight. (Again, this could be any Bard, though.)
I'm using Eldoth with the Dex Gauntlets on my current game. He came with a longbow prof, though, so no speedy crossbow. Still, he's pulling his weight.
Rasaad does suck. I think saying otherwise is foolish. He's especially bad being at level 2, with no hp bonus from con and no ranged weapon proficiency starting off. If you're throwing him on the frontlines in nashkel mines youre pretty much running a 5 percent chance of him insta-dying (critical hits) in an battle. And if you have him set back using ranged, you're using an inferior archer.
He probably wouldn't seem so bad if he was waiting next to Quayle and you didn't get him till level 5+.
But as it is, he can't tank and does poorly with ranged until you level up and get another point. where he can finally use the the one stat he has that's decent, dexterity. His sidequest is great, lots of fun to play.
He's fine enough to play with overall. Get darts proficiency asap. And if he gets good hp rolls on level up he can become decent (playing harder difficulties).
Still, it's pretty much objective fact that he's one of the worst NPCs in the game. I don't need people telling me that I'm not using him correctly or whatever. I get how to use him, but to judge whether an NPC is good or bad, you have to weigh him against the other options who could be in his spot. Just about every NPC would be a better choice. I'm not even sure he'll be super awesome in BG2EE... he has no outstanding stats.
Personally, I think an item, like a monk-only ioun stone that protects from critical hits would go a long way to improving rasaad. That or add freaking darts as one of his level 1 proficiencies. Unbelievable that I have to add darts... then wait for several levels before I can get single-weapon style.
FYI, I wrote wrote up a guide to using Rasaad that I think is fair and objective, so it seems appropriate here to share: see here. It's just one man's experience of how best to utilize the character in combat, of course. My main emphasis is simply on how to get the most out of him if one does intend to give him a try.
I like using all the NPCs, and I'm constantly combining them into different parties. I actually like the fact that some are 'weaker' than others because that offers me the challenge of figuring out how to get the most out of them. (I've only completed two such guide thus far, the other being Garrick. Eventually, I intend to write something similar up for all the NPCs.)
If you actually used Garrick to the full potential of any pure class Bard, he is actually a surprisingly useful character. Moreau than Rasaad, I would argue. Just sayin'. Not to take anything away from Rasaad in observing that, though.
Don't get me wrong. I am probably one of the most ardent bard lovers on this forum. But Garrick has a god awful attribute spread and is one of the reasons (if not the biggest) people think so little of bards in BG.
It's about what Bards can do, really, provided that their stats aren't somehow insanely gimped, which I don't think Garrick's are.
I'm talking about using Garrick to his fullest potential, mind you:
In addition to identifying items and pickpocketing (okay, the former is mainly a convenience and the latter just adds fun, but they're still darned nice), you can have any bard use wands of Sleep, Horror, Paralyzation, Frost, Lightning, Monster Summoning, Fire, and Polymorphing. Plus all the useful spare spell scrolls from loot drops (and there are a lot). This in addition to the spells a Bard can already memorize. Garrick has a prof in Crossbow; when using the Light Crossbow of Speed and bolts of lightning and biting he is very effective. When he's hasted that crossbow is practically like a machine gun.
You don't even have to buy wands for him. A ton of them are dropped.
If you actually use Garrick this way, he more than pulls his weight. (Again, this could be any Bard, though.)
Don't get me wrong, I agree with all of the above. I however think that the available bard NPCs are much further away from their full potential than most of the other NPCs. (Which is why I most often play a bard myself) Garrick has a fairly high dex, although nothing special compared to most NPCs, apart from that he gets no constitution bonus, no strength bonus and has the lowest required stats in both intelligence and charisma making him unable to reliably scribe scrolls or be used as a (good) party leader without using the friends skill, which is an inconvenience for someone who has few spell slots. He's still a bard, which I love, but as far as a bard goes he is pretty terrible.
Mmm okay, I get what you're saying. I don't think we're even disagreeing, it's just that our emphases are different.
The way around spell scribing failure due to Garrick's 13 Int is to purchase potions of genius. The party is soon swimming in gold and Thalantyr has plenty of them to sell, IIRC. I expect the characters in that world would avail themselves of such an advantage, just as we the players think to do. (Btw, 13 Int is actually high normal for the general population, it's just not 'super genius'. But from a game mechanics vantage it's no great shakes, true.)
With the exception of the Blade kit, I think melee by a Bard is never all that stong an ability, even with high stats. THAC0 progression and 1 attack per round for rogues with 1 pip just isn't great. It can't measure up with a warrior class's melee abilities, at any rate. And so for that reason I tend to use them as ranged weapons specialists instead. Garrick's 16 Dex will at least give him a+1 missile attack adjustment. (If he had 17-18 Dex he'd get +2--not a critical difference.) So with Garrick there's no question but that I would have him use the crossbow. The Light Crossbow of Speed adds an extra attack per round. And hasted he gets 3 attacks per round.
Bolts of Biting do 30 points (!) of damage if the target fails the save, in addition to 1d8. Bolts of Electricity do 1d8 plus 4d4. He's spraying these things at either 2 or 3 attacks per round.
Otherwise via his wand collection, the enemies Garrick faces (who don't save vs. wands) are instantly getting paralayzed, horrified, put to sleep, frozen solid, electrocuted, and changed into squirrels.
I mean, that is not a weak character in my book! Plus he can identify and pickpocket, as mentioned.
Unlike a mage he can use that badass crossbow. That's what makes him at last as useful as a NPC mage, to me anyway.
If an NPC doesn't have at least three 18's in their prime stats, people will say they suck. My bet, is the people who thinks all the "useless" NPCs are useless, have 3 INT and WIS on their PC.
I'm also getting tired of people complaining if an NPC has something to make them better than CHARNAME in some way (such as Alora's rabbits foot). I get that CHARNAME is awesome but that doesn't mean he/she should be the best at everything ever. Sorry ranting.
That sounds to me like a contradiction. To me, "fine enough to play with" means "doesn't suck".
Perhaps to you, "sucks" means "not absolutely excellent"? If so, then almost every NPC in the game "sucks", but I think that'd be unnecessarily and unjustifiably derogatory. I'd only say that any NPC "sucks" if I could find no way to use that NPC which made a worthwhile contribution to my party. So far, it seems to me that every NPC in the game can actually be reasonably useful if you figure out how to use him/her effectively. Some are stronger than others, of course, but not being the strongest character in the game doesn't mean that a character sucks.
Perhaps to illustrate the point, Overhaul could convert one or two of the ordinary Commoners or Farmers into joinable characters. Then we might see an NPC who actually "sucks", i.e. who cannot fulfill any useful role in the party. All of the current NPCs have much better abilities than an average citizen of the Forgotten Realms. (Of course I realise that it wouldn't actually be a worthwhile expenditure of effort for Overhaul to create a joinable who sucked.)
I guess we've got very different understandings of what it means when we say that a character "sucks", @DinoDin.
He's fine enough to play with because of his sidequest and his interactions can be interesting. In terms of combat he is bad. Further, he doesn't add any ancillary benefit some not-so-good-in-combat NPCs might add such as high lore or high charisma.
So yes he sucks. He is arguably the worst NPC in BG:EE. That qualifies as sucky. That being said, none of the NPCs are bad to play with, a credit to a solid game.
Here's my Rasaad guide: Skip talking to him in Nashkel. When you enter chapter 5, grab him, then head back to BG. Do some stuff until his quest starts. Complete his quest. Then dump him for the next available NPC. ;p
One thing I'm getting tired of reading on these boards: "[NPC] has awful stats".
A character doesn't need a 17 or 18 in all their main stats to be effective. BG is not a particularly hard or merciless game that will force you to either min-max/use cheesy tactics/powergame or get your ass kicked all the way back to Candlekeep.
Of course everyone's entitled to their opinion, but please, don't try to pass yours as fact, specially when it concerns a game that people play in different ways to have different experiences.
This post wasn't directed at anyone in particular.
Casting bark skin and Strength on him make him much better I think. Try buffing him up some then he can put his extra attacks per round to use.
Just rolled a Monk with the exact stats as Rasaad, gave him 161k exp. to see what his end-game looks like. Honestly, not that bad.
4 AC, 13 THAC0, 2 Stunning Blows. I think he gets some items for himself that gives him -2 AC, but I don't know. Don't have BG:EE until Thursday. Just going off of Tutu.
So assuming he had 2 AC, combined with a RoP, Defensive Harmony, and Skald Song, that would put him at -4 with RoP+2 assuming it stacks with his -AC item.
With usual Cleric buffs ( Bless and Chant ), he'd have 11 THAC0, and with a Skald Song, 9. That's with no bracers. Again, don't know what he has that's special.
Still, that's not bad for end-game. Obviously there's ways to get his AC and THAC0 lower, but those are the ways I use commonly and not factoring in the STR Tome you could give him ( I will, I use support classed ) to bump him up to 17 and giving him that +1 to hit.
Oh, while he's HiS, his THAC0 drops to 6 or 5.
Other than that, he seems solid late game. I'm digging him already and I have a few more days until I bust open EE.
@Cop doesn't matter you can give Rasaad good Ac if you invest in him.... he should easily be able to get ac -2... on the next run i'm going to use him and maximize him out... to see how good or bad he is
I found that the monk tops off in the late portions of BG because he/she ends up a little gimped by relatively poor THAC0 progression. Sort of a 'what's are all the attacks worth, if none hit?' sort of rhetoric question. A strong class in the mid-game (BG2 speaking), I went from dominating to surviving near the end of the saga.
Comments
I'm using Rasaad in my current run, and so far he's performing okay. I disagree with @GoodSteve's prescription so far as the early part of the game goes, Rasaad is simply too fragile to front-line until he's got a few levels under his belt, so I've mostly held him back and had him slinging. (Yes, I do realise that Darts would be a more natural choice for Rasaad than Sling, but I wanted to test how well he worked with a sling.) Now I've got to the point where he's toughened up a bit, and I could send him to the front (at least some of the time) without him getting killed in one round, although I've got a couple of warriors out front and don't usually need Rasaad to do that.
So he's still mostly slinging for the time being, and as it turns out he's not bad at that - he hits quite often and quite hard even though it's only 1 APR. He's not a death-machine, but he's making a noticeable contribution and getting some kills. A Monk is never going to be outstanding in combat until we reach BG2 levels, that's the nature of the Monk class, but he's not useless.
So would I agree that he's one of the weaker NPCs? Yes, of course.
But do I think he sucks? No, that'd be going too far, he's definitely usable.
However! The fact that they included a monk at all I see as a big success and if they allow him to follow us into BGII:EE he might become the BG version of the ugly duckling. I really like the fact that some classes are better than others but that it changes during different parts of the game. You might have to pull his weight now, but when he's karate-chop insta-killing everything in sight you might have to adress your complaints.
That said, I still think he recieved a rather short end of the stick concerning his physical stats, another point in either strength, dex or con would have done him justice (16/16/14 if I remember correct?). But the main reason that he looks bad is simply because all the other three new NPCs are so very good. Compare him to Garrick and he's godlike.
I'm talking about using Garrick to his fullest potential, mind you:
In addition to identifying items and pickpocketing (okay, the former is mainly a convenience and the latter just adds fun, but they're still darned nice), you can have any bard use wands of Sleep, Horror, Paralyzation, Frost, Lightning, Monster Summoning, Fire, and Polymorphing. Plus all the useful spare spell scrolls from loot drops (and there are a lot). This in addition to the spells a Bard can already memorize. Garrick has a prof in Crossbow; when using the Light Crossbow of Speed and bolts of lightning and biting he is very effective. When he's hasted that crossbow is practically like a machine gun.
You don't even have to buy wands for him. A ton of them are dropped.
If you actually use Garrick this way, he more than pulls his weight. (Again, this could be any Bard, though.)
He probably wouldn't seem so bad if he was waiting next to Quayle and you didn't get him till level 5+.
But as it is, he can't tank and does poorly with ranged until you level up and get another point. where he can finally use the the one stat he has that's decent, dexterity. His sidequest is great, lots of fun to play.
He's fine enough to play with overall. Get darts proficiency asap. And if he gets good hp rolls on level up he can become decent (playing harder difficulties).
Still, it's pretty much objective fact that he's one of the worst NPCs in the game. I don't need people telling me that I'm not using him correctly or whatever. I get how to use him, but to judge whether an NPC is good or bad, you have to weigh him against the other options who could be in his spot. Just about every NPC would be a better choice. I'm not even sure he'll be super awesome in BG2EE... he has no outstanding stats.
Personally, I think an item, like a monk-only ioun stone that protects from critical hits would go a long way to improving rasaad. That or add freaking darts as one of his level 1 proficiencies. Unbelievable that I have to add darts... then wait for several levels before I can get single-weapon style.
I like using all the NPCs, and I'm constantly combining them into different parties. I actually like the fact that some are 'weaker' than others because that offers me the challenge of figuring out how to get the most out of them. (I've only completed two such guide thus far, the other being Garrick. Eventually, I intend to write something similar up for all the NPCs.)
HIs killing move is awesome!
The way around spell scribing failure due to Garrick's 13 Int is to purchase potions of genius. The party is soon swimming in gold and Thalantyr has plenty of them to sell, IIRC. I expect the characters in that world would avail themselves of such an advantage, just as we the players think to do. (Btw, 13 Int is actually high normal for the general population, it's just not 'super genius'. But from a game mechanics vantage it's no great shakes, true.)
With the exception of the Blade kit, I think melee by a Bard is never all that stong an ability, even with high stats. THAC0 progression and 1 attack per round for rogues with 1 pip just isn't great. It can't measure up with a warrior class's melee abilities, at any rate. And so for that reason I tend to use them as ranged weapons specialists instead. Garrick's 16 Dex will at least give him a+1 missile attack adjustment. (If he had 17-18 Dex he'd get +2--not a critical difference.) So with Garrick there's no question but that I would have him use the crossbow. The Light Crossbow of Speed adds an extra attack per round. And hasted he gets 3 attacks per round.
Bolts of Biting do 30 points (!) of damage if the target fails the save, in addition to 1d8. Bolts of Electricity do 1d8 plus 4d4. He's spraying these things at either 2 or 3 attacks per round.
Otherwise via his wand collection, the enemies Garrick faces (who don't save vs. wands) are instantly getting paralayzed, horrified, put to sleep, frozen solid, electrocuted, and changed into squirrels.
I mean, that is not a weak character in my book! Plus he can identify and pickpocket, as mentioned.
Unlike a mage he can use that badass crossbow. That's what makes him at last as useful as a NPC mage, to me anyway.
Sorry ranting.
You say but you also say That sounds to me like a contradiction. To me, "fine enough to play with" means "doesn't suck".
Perhaps to you, "sucks" means "not absolutely excellent"? If so, then almost every NPC in the game "sucks", but I think that'd be unnecessarily and unjustifiably derogatory. I'd only say that any NPC "sucks" if I could find no way to use that NPC which made a worthwhile contribution to my party. So far, it seems to me that every NPC in the game can actually be reasonably useful if you figure out how to use him/her effectively. Some are stronger than others, of course, but not being the strongest character in the game doesn't mean that a character sucks.
Perhaps to illustrate the point, Overhaul could convert one or two of the ordinary Commoners or Farmers into joinable characters. Then we might see an NPC who actually "sucks", i.e. who cannot fulfill any useful role in the party. All of the current NPCs have much better abilities than an average citizen of the Forgotten Realms. (Of course I realise that it wouldn't actually be a worthwhile expenditure of effort for Overhaul to create a joinable who sucked.)
So yes he sucks. He is arguably the worst NPC in BG:EE. That qualifies as sucky. That being said, none of the NPCs are bad to play with, a credit to a solid game.
Here's my Rasaad guide: Skip talking to him in Nashkel. When you enter chapter 5, grab him, then head back to BG. Do some stuff until his quest starts. Complete his quest. Then dump him for the next available NPC. ;p
A character doesn't need a 17 or 18 in all their main stats to be effective. BG is not a particularly hard or merciless game that will force you to either min-max/use cheesy tactics/powergame or get your ass kicked all the way back to Candlekeep.
Of course everyone's entitled to their opinion, but please, don't try to pass yours as fact, specially when it concerns a game that people play in different ways to have different experiences.
This post wasn't directed at anyone in particular.
4 AC, 13 THAC0, 2 Stunning Blows. I think he gets some items for himself that gives him -2 AC, but I don't know. Don't have BG:EE until Thursday. Just going off of Tutu.
So assuming he had 2 AC, combined with a RoP, Defensive Harmony, and Skald Song, that would put him at -4 with RoP+2 assuming it stacks with his -AC item.
With usual Cleric buffs ( Bless and Chant ), he'd have 11 THAC0, and with a Skald Song, 9. That's with no bracers. Again, don't know what he has that's special.
Still, that's not bad for end-game. Obviously there's ways to get his AC and THAC0 lower, but those are the ways I use commonly and not factoring in the STR Tome you could give him ( I will, I use support classed ) to bump him up to 17 and giving him that +1 to hit.
Oh, while he's HiS, his THAC0 drops to 6 or 5.
Other than that, he seems solid late game. I'm digging him already and I have a few more days until I bust open EE.
This is an NPC. Read above.
doesn't matter you can give Rasaad good Ac if you invest in him.... he should easily be able to get ac -2...
on the next run i'm going to use him and maximize him out... to see how good or bad he is