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Rasaad sucks...

I played through Baldur's Gate: Enhanced Edition knowing little about the new recruitable characters, and I picked up Neera and Rasaad when I ran into them. Dorn I didn't pick up because I was in a generally good-aligned party, and it didn't make IC sense for me to recruit him. Anyway, I play through most of the game, and I've found that our monk dressed in my favorite color is a bit... underwhelming.

First, there's the fact that he doesn't get magical fists until level 9, which means I have to have him carry around a subpar weapon to be able to hurt creatures immune to normal weapons. Then there's his terrible constitution for a frontline fighter. And finally, his increased movement speed makes him annoying when I'm moving the party; he tends to walk ahead of the group, and gets aggro'd by just about everything unless I constantly micromanage him to the back of the party. Low constitution + no armor + walking in front of the party = lots of deaths and annoying reloads. So far, Rasaad has died the most times out of my party.

When I got to the Cloakwood and ran into Coran, I decided enough was enough and ditched Rasaad. In exchange for a lousy frontline fighter, I get a backup thief to pick locks and disarm traps (Imoen is currently dualled to mage and doesn't have access to her thief abilities). And here I thought the BG:EE version of the monk class would be better than its abysmal D&D 3e and D&D 3.5 versions...
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Comments

  • ShinShin Member Posts: 2,344
    Multiple threads about this already, no real need to start more.
  • moopymoopy Member Posts: 938
    Monk in 3 and 3.5 is awesome, just like it is in BG:EE/BG2:EE.
    It has one of the steepest curves in terms of power though. Due to the level cap the monk never gets very strong by level 8, so yes a monk will be weaker in BG:EE than other classes.

    When he returns in BG2:EE I expect him to get a lot more love. That being said, I beat the game from start to finish with him and found him to be very useful (Although there were more powerful alternatives) but his boots make him faster so he can stealth explore, his stunning palm is great in certain situations to lock certain enemies down while my heavy hitters cleaned up other enemies, and for normal times I give him a slot in sling and used him ranged.

    But yeah, if you want to maximize your power in all 6 party slots a monk is going to be a bad choice till at least early teens.
  • DarkDoggDarkDogg Member Posts: 598
    Actually there is one leather armor in the game that Rasaad can wear.
    Not a big deal, but extras to AC.

    p.s.: no spoilers :-)
  • EnterHaerDalisEnterHaerDalis Member Posts: 813
    He's good in chapters 5 and 6 etc. Give him sling proficiency

    Rasaad is good
  • RiolathelRiolathel Member Posts: 330
    i think ill leave the slinging to my mages
  • rickbellrickbell Member Posts: 1
    I had Imoen pcikpocket Drizzt and gave Twinkle to Rashaad. He's now off tank to my 18/00 figther. Pretty good in my circumstance, although I do have a problem with him fatiguing quickly.
  • EnterHaerDalisEnterHaerDalis Member Posts: 813
    Delvarian said:

    I love that every month or so a Rasaad sucks thread shows up. I wonder if when BG2EE comes out a Rasaad is Over Powered thread will replace it? Only time will tell.

    or in this case, one that's just shy of 4 months old that some guy cast a resurrection spell on

  • IkMarcIkMarc Member Posts: 552
    Not this sht again... Indeed he is rather underwhelming, but when used in the right way (he is NOT a tank) he can be rather decent.

    Still picking up Coran should make up for a lot. He is not as much a backup thief, as he is the strongest archer and with that the strongest character in the game.
  • mlnevesemlnevese Member, Moderator Posts: 10,214
    Delvarian said:

    I love that every month or so a Rasaad sucks thread shows up. I wonder if when BG2EE comes out a Rasaad is Over Powered thread will replace it? Only time will tell.

    I'm quite sure it will. I once played with a monk in BG2 and after level 9 he started to destroy everything in his path. By 13 he was a destruction machine... By 20 well.. you get the idea :)
  • sarevok57sarevok57 Member Posts: 6,002
    i find that in bg2 my monk doesnt match a fighter in combat prowess untill level 18, in bg2 i find, monks are god awful until level 12, and then they are just awful until level 15, then they are actually quite good when they hit level 18, at low levels, they are extremely squishy and their to hit is not that great, i find that a monk really doest start shining until level 15 when they finally have some to hit, and a little bit more hp ( and my gear is never holding my monk back, because i always give him the best gear possible)
  • Grimo88Grimo88 Member Posts: 191
    edited March 2013
    Try the Sunsoul mod somewhere on these forums. He still stinks a bit, but its fun to explore a new kit.
  • The_Shairs_HandbookThe_Shairs_Handbook Member Posts: 219
    edited March 2013
    the reason why he sucks is cuz the monks class BG uses are 3rd edition and not balanced for low lvl 2nd edition... I must say this is sadly... why didn't they use 2nd edition monks?? they are more balanced thruout all lvl... they have unarmed abilities, their own set of divine spells that make them uniqe as druid and cleric. in short 2nd edition monk are closer to chinise and japanise fantasy monks who use unarmed, prayers and spells to defeat their enemies..
  • WanderonWanderon Member Posts: 1,418
    Bhaaldog said:

    The ability to "suck" has proven advantageous during my time in Faerun on more than one occasion. For example a fellow companion took an poisoned arrow to the knee once and we had to suck the poison out as the groups cleric was unconscious.

    Was that Left Knee, Right Knee, or High-Nee? ;-)

  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 3,675
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  • ryuken87ryuken87 Member Posts: 563
    Yeah I think they should have either i) Given Rasaad exceptional physical stats and added some better equipment for him or ii) Made a different NPC with a more viable class. He's ok later on in the game but at the beginning he's just a liability.
  • WanderonWanderon Member Posts: 1,418
    It does seem like they could have added some additional monk gear to the game if they were going to add a monk NPC - a PC monk has even less to choose from than Rasaad.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 3,675
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  • WebShamanWebShaman Member Posts: 490
    This thread is puzzling. I have Rasaad in my party, and he is very, very good! Note that he is NOT the main tank - I have Dorn and Viconia for that! Rasaad fills a number of roles, his flexibility is amazing. He normally uses a sling, can go hand-to-hand, and carries a number of weapons for times when he needs it.

    I gave Dorn the Boots of Speed, so he is normally the first one on the scene. Then comes Rasaad, slinging away! Viconia crashes in after that, and the rest of the party mops up. He makes for a very good scout, especially with his speed, and is the bane of spellcasters (alongside of my Fallen Archer, that is!). He also has very good saves, that made for a very good Sirene killer (after Baeloth cast detect Invisible, of course). I gave Rasaad the Gauntlets of Dex, for the AC and Ranged to hit boost.

  • GoodSteveGoodSteve Member Posts: 607
    edited March 2013
    WebShaman said:

    This thread is puzzling. I have Rasaad in my party, and he is very, very good! Note that he is NOT the main tank - I have Dorn and Viconia for that! Rasaad fills a number of roles, his flexibility is amazing. He normally uses a sling, can go hand-to-hand, and carries a number of weapons for times when he needs it.

    I gave Dorn the Boots of Speed, so he is normally the first one on the scene. Then comes Rasaad, slinging away! Viconia crashes in after that, and the rest of the party mops up. He makes for a very good scout, especially with his speed, and is the bane of spellcasters (alongside of my Fallen Archer, that is!). He also has very good saves, that made for a very good Sirene killer (after Baeloth cast detect Invisible, of course). I gave Rasaad the Gauntlets of Dex, for the AC and Ranged to hit boost.

    I never quite understood this line of thinking in regards to Rasaad. Giving the Monk, whos biggest saving grace is their large number of attacks per round while using their fists (note that no other weapon recieves these extra attacks), a weapon and claiming that now they're "very very good" or that they "rock" etc. It's simply not true. Rasaad with his 1 attack per round with a sling isn't awesome... at all. Give any fighter with a comparable dex a few pips in slings and see just how bad Rasaad is.

    The fact is, if Rasaad isn't on the frontline attacking with his fists he is not fulfilling his true potential and will be on par with other non-frontline characters (like a Thief or Cleric) but have no where near the utility of another class. Giving him a magical sword to attack with? Doesn't work, 1 attack per round. Having him use a sling? Doesn't work, 1 attack per round. The Cleric can do that as well but has all these nifty spells additionally. The truth of the matter is that if you're not knee deep in the shit on the frontlines with the other bruisers you're wasting your time with Rasaad. Sadly, that's where playing Rasaad is the most annoying due to the sheer volume of micromanaging required and it's why you find so many people complaining about his effectiveness.
  • WebShamanWebShaman Member Posts: 490
    No, I strongly disagree here. You seem to think that the only use of the Monk Class is the large number of attacks per round while using their fists. This is just one of the aspects of the Monk Class that is good. It is also fast, can Hide, Move Silently (i.e. Scout) can fall great distances and survive (not implemented ingame), can stun with a single blow, has a Deathfist Attack (at higher levels), immunity to Poison (higher level), blah blah blah.

    Giving Rasaad a sling is very good IMHO. It works very well. Dorna bashes, Rasaad slings, Vikki comes up and either bashes further with The Stupifier or heals Dorna if needed. The rest of the party does what they do. Works very well for me. Rasaad can quickly dart in to help out if Dorna is Paralysed, Turned to Stone, whatever.

    Once Dorna got charmed by Sirenes. I just had Rasaad kite her, keeping her busy until Vikki could Hold her.

    I use Rasaad as my "ace in the hole, wildcard get out of jail free" sort of character - he is immensely flexible in just about any situation.
  • ryuken87ryuken87 Member Posts: 563
    Sorry @WebShaman but @GoodSteve is right.
    - Monk's stealth is crap, Rasaad will have less than 100 points total at exp cap.
    - Stunning Fist is ok but you actually need to hit something.
    - Everything else you mentioned is either irrelevant to BG1 or simply irrelevant.

    The only thing whih makes a Monk stand out over other characters in BG1 is their apr (and even then when you consider the benefits of dual wielding, GM, and the fact monks can't be hasted after level 5, it's unimpressive). Any other warrior could use a sling just as well as Rasaad if not better, and if you're gonna use him at range you may as well have him use darts since they get 3 apr and have better ammo choices.
  • GoodSteveGoodSteve Member Posts: 607
    edited March 2013
    WebShaman said:

    No, I strongly disagree here. You seem to think that the only use of the Monk Class is the large number of attacks per round while using their fists. This is just one of the aspects of the Monk Class that is good. It is also fast, can Hide, Move Silently (i.e. Scout) can fall great distances and survive (not implemented ingame), can stun with a single blow, has a Deathfist Attack (at higher levels), immunity to Poison (higher level), blah blah blah.

    Giving Rasaad a sling is very good IMHO. It works very well. Dorna bashes, Rasaad slings, Vikki comes up and either bashes further with The Stupifier or heals Dorna if needed. The rest of the party does what they do. Works very well for me. Rasaad can quickly dart in to help out if Dorna is Paralysed, Turned to Stone, whatever.

    Once Dorna got charmed by Sirenes. I just had Rasaad kite her, keeping her busy until Vikki could Hold her.

    I use Rasaad as my "ace in the hole, wildcard get out of jail free" sort of character - he is immensely flexible in just about any situation.

    As was stated earlier by @ryuken87 many of these points don't really come into play in BG:EE. I'm not saying that the monk class, on the whole, is a bad class. I am saying that the character Rasaad and the BG version of the monk, within the confines of Baldur's Gate Enhanced Edition sucks. He will likely be a very useful character half way through Shadows of Amn and then through the whole of Throne of Bhaal. Monks don't cut it in BG1 though, especially ones with lack luster stats like Rasaad has.

    I also think that everything that Rasaad can do can be done more easily and better by another class. The whole sneak in and stun a caster routine is far harder to accomplish than simply having a cleric cast silence on them, that way they are effectively useless but it will also silence that caster and any other casters surrounding them. His melee capabilities are outshone by a fighter with two-weapon fighting and haste, his ranged attacks are crappy too. Give Montaron a sling and watch him put Rasaad to shame.

    I think the root of the problem with the monk class, from just about every iteration of DnD that I've played, is that they don't have a niche that they fill better than any other class can. They can do a little bit of everything, but when they do it it's mediocre. In 3rd edition and 3.5 everything the monk could do could be done better and at earlier levels by a wizard. Wanna fall from high distances safely? The 1st level feather fall spell does it WAAY better than the slow fall monk ability. Want a bunch of natural attacks per round? A polymorph spell and tenser's transformation will make a wizard attack more reliably (higher base attack bonus) and deal far more damage. Wanna move fast? Again, 1st level wizard spell: expeditious retreat.

    I find that even in BG:EE this is true. Rasaad's scouting abilities are nothing compared to a thief with high move silently and hide (plus the added bonuses of backstabbing) even a wizard with invisibility or a cleric with sanctuary can fill this role better because it is more reliable. As I pointed out earlier there just doesn't seem to be any niche that I need a monk to fill and coupling that with Rasaad's mediocre stat array I say he stinks.

    When I first played through BG:EE I had him for my entire run through. He got less crappy by the end of the game but was still the weakest link by a long stretch. Now, I use him to pick up the Big Fisted Belt and then boot his ass to the curb every time.
  • LemernisLemernis Member, Moderator Posts: 4,318
    edited March 2013
    I got what I would call very good (if not 'superb') use from Rasaad by using his fists.

    You just have to have him surgically target mages and archers. Stun the mages whenever possible (or disrupt their casting). And then have him tie up archers into melee where they are much weaker. He's fun to use that way. Even after I got him to level 6 I continued to use him that way, rather than having him slug it out toe-to-toe with a heavily armored enemy tank.

    That's no more micromanaged than controlling any other characters.

    He can also kite tanks while hurling darts of wounding and stunning at them, which is kind of fun.
    Post edited by Lemernis on
  • spacejawsspacejaws Member, Mobile Tester Posts: 389
    Another indirect bonus to having the new npcs(at least rasaad and dorn) is that their quests are practically completed when you get to Baldur's Gate. I don't know why but the couple of games I've played it's made me easier to let them go and replace hem with city npcs I've hardly used. The fact that there stories wrapped up there with powerful items make them good spot warmers if you intend on later npc's.

    I would have liked to see some of the city characters make brief appearances before big giving you the opportunity to recruit them for a select chapter in certain areas but o well...does that mod still work?
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 3,675
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  • The_Shairs_HandbookThe_Shairs_Handbook Member Posts: 219
    the only good thing about Rasaad is his background, his quest and his infight comments with viconia.. I do like the charachter but the Monk class itself should be delated (it's only my point of view here) and be updated to 2nd edition monks with unarmed combat abilities and their own special set of divine spells that cleric and druid doesnt have...

    2nd edition monk:

    Monks are cloistered priests and adepts who seek enlightenment through the
    rigorous training of mind, body, and spirit. Monks are extremely skilled in unarmed
    combat and have access to several unusual spheres of spells. Monks Divine spells are
    competition, divinity of mankind, literature/poetry, magic,
    oracles/prophecy, peace, time, and wisdom.

    *Source DnD*
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