Beefiest damage oriented character possible in BGEE going into BG2EE

Hempo

Basically, I'm an old lazy nerd too tired to do any serious research on the topic and am thus asking for tips!

I played my usual pure fighter through BGEE already but I'm interested in making a real beast of a character for BG2EE. I have literally zero experience with dual/multiclassing and have no idea what to make.

I'd love it if I could get some tips on what to dual class and when! I prefer fighty characters but I'm thankful for any help provided.

If there's already a thread on this, I apologise for this one.

Sed

A seriously OP char is a dual classed fighter/cleric dual wielding maces/flails. Dual class after lvl 9 and you're good to go :-)

With Draw Upon Holy Might and the awesome high lvl cleric spells, you're a killing machine.

hzf

Sed said:

A seriously OP char is a dual classed fighter/cleric dual wielding maces/flails. Dual class after lvl 9 and you're good to go :-)

With Draw Upon Holy Might and the awesome high lvl cleric spells, you're a killing machine.

I agree. But if you want to end up maximising your melee damage in ToB then you may want to wait and dual at 13.

You may as well use the beserker kit, since you wont be using ranged weapons anyway.

You might consider flail mainhand and hammer offhand, for a certain mace in soa. Your offhand only gets 1 attack per round anyway (I think), so you wont lose too much offhand damage, and the 25 strength will help with your main hand flailing.

raywind

Blade is the strongest of em all.

doomdoomdoom

hzf said:

But if you want to end up maximising your melee damage in ToB then you may want to wait and dual at 13.

With ToB in mind, as far as melee ability, multi is better than dual because of fighter HLAs.

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Southpaw

well...that is a loaded question and depends on how far into BG saga would you like to plan your ultimate munchkin.
standard BGEE? the enhanced levels of BG2? or the epicness of BGToB?
Anyway, you would need just to abuse the multi and especially dual-classing.

lets take it in stages then:
BG1- dual class a fighter on 7th level to a thief and get a backstabbing monster. multiclass with a cleric and buff yourself...mages do not shine that much here. pure barbarian is also good.

BG2- now it starts being interesting. get a fighter (preferrably berserker) to lvl 13 to get to 2 base attacks and dual class into a mage or cleric. kensai-mage is a very respected combo

BGToB and the epic levels - kensai to lvl 13 and then dual to thief or mage. berserker to lvl 13 and then dual to cleric.


basically depends on how long would you want to be gimped when dualclassing.
if you don't wantto hassle with dualclassing, fighter/cleric multiclass is the usual meelee combo. fighter/mage if you like casting. also- for multiclasses get a half-orc to get 20 con and 20 str (with tomes)

Shrimp

A Half-Orc fighter/cleric is no slouch either in the damage department at ToB levels. Fighter HLA + cleric high level spells, combined with a HO's higher strength, makes short work of pretty much anything.

I agree that it may not compare with kensai or 'zerker duals, but multis are probably easier to apprehend. And as mentioned, you'll get fighter HLA, always a nice bonus.

Riolathel

Im doing a cleric/ranger multiclass..

I was wondering about one thing
Will i get to change my racial enemy in bg2? Or at least add a new one..

I know there's a lot of new types of enemies and i don't think ogres will really be an issue that high of level.

Besides that i'm pretty sure i'll be a killing machine.. Already 45% of the kills in my party

DarkDogg

Half-elf Cleric\Ranger - the most powerfull class in the whole BG saga.

Riolathel

Well i wasn't going for that but that is exactly what my new PC is. level 5/5 atm. I decided to reroll because when i did black pits i made one and i loved it.. Dual morningstar/maces ftw. Plus the cleric buffs.

Anyone know anything about the racial enemies though?

Hempo

Are these cleric buffs caster only? I don't plan on playing solo ever so if they are castable on others, dual/multiclassing Cleric won't do me a lot of good since I can just have another Cleric buff me.

Thanks for all the tips!

Debaser

Half-Elf Cleric / Ranger - In BG1 he can dual wield Ashadeena (Hammer +2, +1 Electrical Damage) and the Hammer +1, +4 Vs Giants. or the Flail +2. Ashadeena has a speed factor of 2 and interrupts casters constantly. Plus it can damage through stoneskin. And they can use cleric spells all throughout the game...AND the get both High Level Abilities for each class. The draw back is a few less cleric spells vs the dual class. Easy choice if you ask me. AND there are few quests they can stealth with no blood shed.

My racial enemy is demons always. But if you have to pick something else in BG1...I don't suppose it matters much.

If you give Minsc one more dot in Mace and Dual Wield than Minsc can take the Staff Mace and the Stupifier +1 Mace...making him a stunning machine with nearly as high DPS as you.

Then you give Minsc the tome of Strength buffing him to 19, use draw upon holy might on yourself and wait until BG2 for Crom Faeyr to up your strength to 25 and dual that with Flail of the Ages.

(In BG2 I just choose another weapon class for Minsc to put dots in besides mace, I don't really see the point in him using two handed swords as much) - So...in BG2 you give him ++ in Longsword, Bastard Sword, Axe, Scimitar or Katana...whatever you think he should get that isn't a mace, since Mace of Disruption is really the only good one.

Other builds:

Kensai / Mage Builds are of course insane. But I'm not very attracted to them.

Cavalier, Inquisitor...

Beserker / Cleric Dual classes.

Beserker / Thief Dual Classes.

I also think Blackguard is sincerely powerful.

Elf Fighter / Mage

Blade

Helias

Swashbuckler dual-classed to a fighter. Best thing there is. I've been advocating this build for a while now, but have attracted little following.

Amera

Hempo said:

Are these cleric buffs caster only? I don't plan on playing solo ever so if they are castable on others, dual/multiclassing Cleric won't do me a lot of good since I can just have another Cleric buff me.

Thanks for all the tips!

Some cleric buffs are caster only (draw upon holy might, holy power, righteous magic, possibly a few others). If you are willing to buff and rest when necessary they will easily eclipse a single-class warrior of any kind during that window in terms of pure damage (and utility and basically everything else).

Helias said:

Swashbuckler dual-classed to a fighter. Best thing there is. I've been advocating this build for a while now, but have attracted little following.

Unless you do a lot of swash levels you aren't going to get a huge bonus from it. At level 10 it's +2/+2, which while certainly nice isn't game-breaking by any means. And you can't backstab. That's not to say it isn't good or fun or whatever, but that's not even going to come close to eclipsing the bonus you'd get from mage/cleric self-buffs.

-

As a general point to the OP, though, raw damage is probably the most overrated thing in the game, especially if you aren't soloing. Survivability and crowd control are far more important.

Rhyme

I'm a follower, Helias. Love that combo.

kilroy_was_here

I'm just popping in to approve of the word 'beefiest' in the title.

That is all... carry on,

AlexDeLarge

Helias said:

Swashbuckler dual-classed to a fighter. Best thing there is. I've been advocating this build for a while now, but have attracted little following.

Swashbucker/Fighter.. Seriously? That's a terrible combo. You have no backstab multiplier, no grandmastery, are limited to Studded Leather. A plain fighter or a plain Swashbuckler would be better. And if you really wanna go the fighter/thief route, Kensai dualed to a thief is insane, since Use Any Item nullifies any disadvantage Kensai has, and you do monster backstabs with Kai.

Helias

Amera said:

Unless you do a lot of swash levels you aren't going to get a huge bonus from it. At level 10 it's +2/+2, which while certainly nice isn't game-breaking by any means. And you can't backstab. That's not to say it isn't good or fun or whatever, but that's not even going to come close to eclipsing the bonus you'd get from mage/cleric self-buffs.

I'm talking about a bg1 character. Dual classing after level 10 is out of the question. That's why I also have my doubts about dual classing to a cleric or mage after level 9, as some have suggested higher.

The swash that is dualclassed at level 2, 3, 4 or 5 is an extremely efficient build. He has the trapfinding and/or lockpicking skills to see you through the whole of the game. And he has 2 or 3 more weapon proficiencies than a pure fighter of the same XP.

Why the swash and not another thief? He can immediatly put 2 (or 3 if you dual at level 4) in two weapon style and has -1 bonus to AC (-2 if you wait till level 5 to dual, also + 1 in thaco and damage). The fighter class will then put points in melee weapons and once these are combined ...

You should try it. It's an amazing fighting machine. Much like a lawn mower, the way he cuts through enemies

valky

Sed said:

A seriously OP char is a dual classed fighter/cleric dual wielding maces/flails. Dual class after lvl 9 and you're good to go :-)

With Draw Upon Holy Might and the awesome high lvl cleric spells, you're a killing machine.

+1 !
Currently doing so :P
Some even 'abuse' the fact, that you can dual with lvl7 as well, cause you can spend your 5th point anyway...even if it's not legitimate. For the most you'd level the fighter up to 13 for 2 attacks/pRound - if my math is correct you only lose 2 'xp-level' in Cleric, but the spell-table is the same with either 38 or 40.

I only hate to stick to Jaheira for such a long time, til I get some serious spell to replace her with another fighter/or whatever. But am personally fine with only lvl9 in fighter.
[playing a good aligned party, else vic]

doomdoomdoom

AlexDeLarge said:

Swashbucker/Fighter.. Seriously? That's a terrible combo. You have no backstab multiplier, no grandmastery, are limited to Studded Leather. A plain fighter or a plain Swashbuckler would be better.

First off, that's all wrong. You list all cons of pure swashie but ignore the fact that fighter takes care of them.
Not saying it's the bestest build everest (there is no such thing), and not denying that Kensai/Thief backstabs like a god, but for those who like to play straight up fighters with no magic, a swashbuckler first class does add a lot of tankiness and solo-ability. Most dangerous enemies often can't be backstabbed anyway.
For some extreme dual classing see http://www.sorcerers.net/forums/showthread.php?t=24706

AlexDeLarge

I fail to see how the fighter takes care of all the swashbuckler's weaknesses. If you roll a multiclass fighter/thief, it will do the exact same job as your dual class, but much more efficient. Swashbuckler/Fighter is actually gimping yourself.

Suii

valky said:

Sed said:

A seriously OP char is a dual classed fighter/cleric dual wielding maces/flails. Dual class after lvl 9 and you're good to go :-)

With Draw Upon Holy Might and the awesome high lvl cleric spells, you're a killing machine.

+1 !
Currently doing so :P
Some even 'abuse' the fact, that you can dual with lvl7 as well, cause you can spend your 5th point anyway...even if it's not legitimate. For the most you'd level the fighter up to 13 for 2 attacks/pRound - if my math is correct you only lose 2 'xp-level' in Cleric, but the spell-table is the same with either 38 or 40.

I only hate to stick to Jaheira for such a long time, til I get some serious spell to replace her with another fighter/or whatever. But am personally fine with only lvl9 in fighter.
[playing a good aligned party, else vic]

Care to elaborate about how to cheese the dual to get the extra point that you can then put into mastery?

Helias

AlexDeLarge said:

I fail to see how the fighter takes care of all the swashbuckler's weaknesses. If you roll a multiclass fighter/thief, it will do the exact same job as your dual class, but much more efficient. Swashbuckler/Fighter is actually gimping yourself.

Very much wrong, I'm afraid.

Let's take a swashbuckler dual classed to a fighter (at level 5) and compare it to a fighter/thief multiclass when both have reached their XP cap:

Advantages of the dual class Swash :
- 3 more weapon proficiencies (9 instead of 6) - that's a HUGE difference (eg he could put 3 in dual wield/4 in melee weapon/ 2 in ranged)
- AC that is 2 points lower (not a negligable luxury for a fighter without a shield)
- +1/+1 in thaco and damage
- slightly higher HP's

Advantages of the multiclass:
- higher thieving abilities (but since the dual classed Swash will have enough points to open all locks and detect all traps in the game, this is a very minimal advantage)
- backstab ability: not negligable, but the OP did ask for the most efficent frontline fighter, not the the best thief

AlexDeLarge

I thought we were talking about the entire trilogy, not just BG1. In any case, i think a F/T gets 7 proficiencies in total in BG1, and when you can only specialize in weapons, you really don't need that many. Not to mention your dual class char will have a hard time until he regains his thief skills back, you will have to hire another thief in party, while the fighter/thief remains constant throughout. And this is just for BG1.

By the end of ToB, the fighter/thief will have huge advantages over your swashy, like all the amazing thief HLA's, plus insane backstab.

Allbrother

@AlexDeLarge

First of all, the dual can get grandmastery, I don't know how you can think otherwise
Second, the thief HLAs are not all that amazing, especially when it's a thief-fighter multi. The only real loss is the time stop trap but that's what Edwin's for anyway. And the dual class will get to his whirlwind faster.
Third, swashie gets additional bonus AC at lvl 1. So at lvl 5 he gets +1 to hit and damage, +2 AC. +2/+2/+3 at lvl 10 and +3/+3/+4 for at lvl 15, which I think is the optimal time to dual it in bg 2
Fourth, bonuses calculate after class thaco. So when the fighter thac0 caps at 0, the dual class actually caps at -3. This means it has the best thac0 of ANY dual/multiclass. AND most single classes. Exceptions being pure class kensai (which he still devastates, thanks to superior AC) and Archer

So bottom line

Dual class gets grandmastery, decent bonuses to thac0, damage and AC, faster access to HLAs, highest end-game thac0 and loses... what exactly? A few HLAs that are nothing to write home about and useless backstab

AlexDeLarge

Ok, ok.. but those are all exclusive fighter bonuses. And let's not forget, a plain fighter gets a ton more HP's from levels 1 to 9, this is the biggest disadvantage. Basically, all your swashy brings to the table are some thief skills for lockpicking and finding traps.

Allbrother

And bonuses to hit, damage and AC + more proficiency points (edit: he also brings epic levels of coolness and that's priceless )
Which is enough to make it really good

And let's keep in mind that those lost HP won't make much of a difference after about halfway through BG2

AlexDeLarge

Thac0 is overrated, it becomes redundant to decrease it so much after a certain point. When i played my Kensage dualed at 9, i used to hit everything in the game, that is with SCS installed. If you're happy with swashbuckler/fighter, then by all means, play your heart out with this combo. But i can tell you with full confidence that there are much more potent fighter/thief dual/multi combo's available out there. I'm sure some veterans here can confirm this, as i do not play thieves very much in general.

Helias

AlexDeLarge said:

I thought we were talking about the entire trilogy, not just BG1. In any case, i think a F/T gets 7 proficiencies in total in BG1, and when you can only specialize in weapons, you really don't need that many. Not to mention your dual class char will have a hard time until he regains his thief skills back, you will have to hire another thief in party, while the fighter/thief remains constant throughout. And this is just for BG1.

By the end of ToB, the fighter/thief will have huge advantages over your swashy, like all the amazing thief HLA's, plus insane backstab.

I think we can agree there. In BG2 the trap setting ability alone is awesome.

BTW, in BG1, my maxed out Coran has only 6 profiencies, not 7.

And to be honest: I dual class much earlier exactly because of the lapse till the dual class abilities combine. I was talking theoretically because some here mention dual classing at level 9 or 10 (which is a major leap, even in BG2).

But even an swash dual classed at level 2, 3 or 4 is amazing. It's the most efficient way to build an early dual wielder, with thieving abilities to boost.

Allbrother

Anything with casters involved would probably be more powerful by virtue of buffs

But among the fighter/thief combos the swash/fighter reigns supreme and no amount of veterans can prove otherwise

edit:

Here's what taking it to the extreme does
http://www.sorcerers.net/forums/showthread.php?t=24706