An Annotated Solo Hardcore Tier List
IN1
Member Posts: 168
Disclaimer: Although the criteria used for tier determination are, as far as I can judge, common sense, they are by no means 'official'. In other words, I do not pretend to proclaim eternal truths below, it's all open for debate and discussion.
Below is a table summarizing my evaluation of the performance of various races/kits under the following conditions: solo, no reloads (except for technical reasons), Insane difficulty (the slider should always stay there -- no maxing out hp on level-up).
Original version:
http://s18.postimage.org/3xi4nalqh/bgeesolo.jpg
A slightly updated version with minor corrigenda for Druid kits:
http://s12.postimage.org/ldwoznt2l/bgeesolo2.jpg
General remarks:
Numbers in parentheses are multipliers. In the table itself, blank cell means 0 = no ability/normal value for hp and AC, 0.5 = partial ability/decent value for hp and AC, 1 = full ability/good value for hp and AC, 1.5 = extraordinary ability/superb value for hp and AC. Negative values mean poor (-0.5) or extremely poor (-1) ability, wherever applicable (AC, hp, preparation).
Rng values are somewhat special: -1 = ‘has no ranged capability by definition’, -0.5 = ‘extremely weak ranged capability’, 0 = ‘nothing to write home about’, 0.5 = ‘has some decent ranged capability, still far from optimal’, 1 = ‘good ranged capability’, 1.5 = 'exceptional ranged capability'.
Defining dual-/multi-class values is tricky, since the number of possible combinations is much too high even within one dual-class (Assassin 2/Cleric 8 is awesome, while Lathander 2/Thief 10 is so-so, etc.). Therefore, I won’t touch them here.
Legend:
• AC – Low AC. One of the most basic requirements, for obvious reasons.
• hp – High hp. Same as above.
• Inv – Simply put, Invisibility and its equivalents are game-changing. One of the most important factors, given the scarcity of Invisibility Potions and the price of Sandthief’s Ring.
• Rng – Ability to deal ranged damage. The most important criterion. If you fight in melee, whatever your AC is, you will get hit. A short streak of bad rolls – and game is over. Statistics are not on your side, unless you remove yourself from a direct confrontation.
• Hst – Haste (movement). Very important for any ranged character, though not one of the core requirements.
• Fear – Fear immunity. Fear is the most important of the Holy Trinity of game-ending Fear/Hold/Charm in BG:EE due to all early-game critical path mages being extremely Horror-happy.
• Hld – Hold immunity. A good thing to have, but only becomes a must in ch. IV (Cloakwood).
• Chrm – Charm immunity. Will save you a lot, but mostly late game, so not very high on a priority list.
• UEA – Useful extraordinary abilities. For example, Set Traps or Storm Shield.
• Sts – Stoneskin/Iron Skins. Not the most important criterion, but definitely a factor.
• Trp – Ability to find (and, ideally, disarm) traps. Hardly crucial, but neat.
• Smn – Ability to summon cannon fodder (e. g., Skeletons) and/or useful support summons (e. g., Nymph).
• 0 pr – Zero (or very low) preparation. For a mage or a cleric, the hardcore run is a demanding chore, requiring constant rebuffing. This is actually a great inconvenience, possibly interfering with your ability to focus on the game.
Race/kit abbreviations:
• Only the three most obviously efficient races (Human, Elf, Half-Orc) are covered.
• Only kits are covered wherever they exist, since pure classes only really matter for dual-/multi-combinations, that are not covered in this table.
H – Human
E – Elf
O – Orc
B – Berserker
W – Wizardslayer
K – Kensai
A – Archer
S – Stalker
B – Beastmaster
C – Cavalier
I – Inquisitor
UH – Undead Hunter
Bg – Blackguard
T – Priest of Talos
H – Priest of Helm
L – Priest of Lathander
TD – Totemic Druid
Sh – Shapeshifter
Av – Avenger
M – Mage/Sorcerer
As – Assassin
BH – Bounty Hunter
Sb – Swashbuckler
Bl – Blade
Sk – Skald
J – Jester
Mn – Monk
Br – Barbarian
Specific race/kit comments:
• Human – Gets his 1.5 points for dual-class capability (though it’s not that great in a low-level module).
• Elf – 90% immunity to charm/sleep is a good bonus, as well as 19 Dex/+1 THAC0 with bows; on the other hand, elves’ hp tends to be lower, which is highly detrimental to the success of a hardcore run.
• Half-Orc – Quite self-explanatory. 19 Str and Con are both great features.
• Berserker – Immunities, high hp, low AC, what’s not to like? But built for melee fighting -- extremely weak ranged capability.
• Wizardslayer – Inability to use magic items hurts, making late game an insurmountable challenge. Otherwise, he’s not horrible.
• Kensai – Avoid like a plague. Low AC, no ranged capability. It’s the single most challenging character for hardcore runs.
• Archer – If/when Ankheg Armor will get patched, Archer, especially Elf Archer, will become a decent pick.
• Stalker – No reason to use this kit in BG:EE. Bad armor, no spells, only x2 backstab multiplier. I believe you can soldier through the game, but it surely won’t be a fast and elegant run-through.
• Beastmaster – Actually, the best Ranger kit for hardcore solo runs, especially if you pick a CG Elf. Fairy Dragon is amazing, and a competently built Beastmaster can be a decent ranged attacker (hint: Dart of Stunning->sling to death). Throw in some summoning capability for a good measure, and we have a solid candidate here.
• Cavalier – Ugh. No ranged capability, so his advantages can’t be discussed seriously. Besides, demonic and draconic creatures are very rare in BG:EE.
• Inquisitor – Not bad, but not very good, either. Speed 1 Dispel Magic helps a lot sometimes, but BG:EE is not really about dispelling powerful magic defenses.
• Undead Hunter – No serious undead to hunt here. Has his strengths, but quite a mediocre option overall.
• Blackguard – This guy is definitely one of the best candidates. Great AC, high hp, fear immunity, warrior THAC0, ability to use Rancor for a transferable +1 to-hit, and, of course, the wonderful Poison Weapon ability. On a negative side, has to rely on Sandthief’s Ring, Potions of Invisibility, Boots of Speed, and Greenstone Amulet to emulate all the important effects he lacks.
• Priest of Talos – Has great abilities, especially Storm Shield. However, weak in ranged combat. Still, a solid option overall (playing Elf or Half-Orc might make him more viable).
• Priest of Helm – Gets a very strong weapon buff off the bat, but it’s melee, so meh. True Sight is always a welcome addition to the arsenal. That said, I wouldn’t pick him.
• Priest of Lathander – The worst of three cleric kits. Boon of Lathander has an extremely short duration and doesn’t confer anything especially great. And Hold Undead... Really, what’s the point? Avoid.
• Totemic Druid – Sic transit gloria. He was a beast (a spirit beast, hehe) in BGTutu, but in BG:EE he’s quite a weak character. When spirit animals finally reach their 5th phase, the one we are used to from BGTutu days (including immunity to normal weapons), every single enemy you face has some kind of enchanted weapon. Druid spells are not that hot, either (notable exclusions: Call Woodland Beings, Iron Skins, Pixie Dust).
• Shapeshifter – A melee-oriented character, therefore, unworthy of serious discussion.
• Avenger – This, on the other hand, is an amazing option. Not until level 7, though. At level 7 he gains two abilities that make him so good at solo runs: Improved Invisibility and Shapeshift: Fire Salamander. The Salamander is a permanently hasted creature (quite a solid melee fighter) that has an ability to breathe three 2d6 fireballs that always hit and ignore any resistances. That’s right, potentially, he can do up to 36 freebie damage to any enemy (100% magical resistance included!) in this form while staying out of harm’s way due to innate Haste. Oh, and level 7 for a Druid is only a matter of 35,000 xp, and thus, easily reachable in 10 minutes of game time (if you know how to tackle it, hehe).
• Mage/Sorcerer – His advantages are obvious. His shortcomings (horrible AC, low hp, long preparation times, high stochastic dependency) tend to be ignored in normal games, where you can safely reload a certain episode over and over again. Unfortunately, in a hardcore run, they are likely to become his downfall. I believe it is possible to make a full hardcore solo run with mage/sorcerer, it’s just going to be a very risky and inconvenient business.
• Assassin – Some good general thief abilities, and, of course, Poison Weapon. On the other hand, THAC0 is bad, AC is even worse, and hp pool tends to get depleted in one or two hits (and hit you they will!). Meh.
• Bounty Hunter – As great as he was in BG2, he’s not worth it in BG:EE. True, he has some great damage-dealing possibilities through his traps, but a solo run with a BH is bound to be slow, tedious, and - truth be told – quite risky. I’d pass.
• Swashbuckler – Basically, a better melee-oriented fighter than other thieves, but without a backstab. No good at all.
• Blade – An universally great option. Both Spins are very efficient (basically, those are a freebie Haste+Kai and a great AC boost), good spell-casting abilities, can pick-pocket, and if he goes TN, can even remove traps. Can do tremendous damage with the Chesley Crusher (HALB13) under Offensive Spin. Probably Greater Malison -> Dart of Stunning -> Chesley is the combo that works best for him.
• Skald – Blade’s minor brother. Hardly spectacular, but since Bards are so great as a solo class, still very much viable.
• Jester – Jester’s song is a Chaos spell (Confusion with -4 save, 30 ft radius) cast every round. Sounds pretty powerful, and so it is in fact. Actually, makes a good ranged fighter due to his ability to confuse enemies indefinitely. A nice option overall. [Please note Jester's song is currently bugged and allows for a save with +2 bonus instead of -4 penalty.]
• Monk – Not much to discuss here. He’s very melee-oriented, so thanks, but no, thanks.
• Barbarian – A Half-Orc Barbarian with ++ in Slings is a pretty powerful ranged attacker (15-18 damage per bullet at level 1 under Rage!). The immunities and the exceptionally high hp are great as well. Definitely a strong candidate.
Future plans:
Eventually, I plan to incorporate multi-class combinations and, maybe, add another criterion (wands) into the table. Though the latter appears doubtful -- IMHO, it's a nice enough icing on the cake, but by no means a core requirement in solo hardcore. The final verdict is yet to be passed, however.
Probably going to add the P:C ratio (potential:consistency, where potential is character's theoretical/late game best [a level 8 Kensai with Potions of Defense and Staff of Striking, anyone?]; while consistency includes meta-game/itemization [the same Kensai specializing in quarterstaves will have to soldier through 90% of the game until he gets Staff of Striking, while a Kensai specializing in halberds may obtain the Chesley Crusher immediately after leaving Candlekeeep], power timings [for example, Avenger suddenly spikes at level 7 after a relatively weak start], and overall ease-of-use/advancement tempo [an Assassin 2/Fighter 8 might be a great character, but he has to grind like crazy in Candlekeep during the prologue to get 5,250 xp necessary]). In what way this ratio will affect the ratings (if at all) remains to be decided.
Below is a table summarizing my evaluation of the performance of various races/kits under the following conditions: solo, no reloads (except for technical reasons), Insane difficulty (the slider should always stay there -- no maxing out hp on level-up).
Original version:
http://s18.postimage.org/3xi4nalqh/bgeesolo.jpg
A slightly updated version with minor corrigenda for Druid kits:
http://s12.postimage.org/ldwoznt2l/bgeesolo2.jpg
General remarks:
Numbers in parentheses are multipliers. In the table itself, blank cell means 0 = no ability/normal value for hp and AC, 0.5 = partial ability/decent value for hp and AC, 1 = full ability/good value for hp and AC, 1.5 = extraordinary ability/superb value for hp and AC. Negative values mean poor (-0.5) or extremely poor (-1) ability, wherever applicable (AC, hp, preparation).
Rng values are somewhat special: -1 = ‘has no ranged capability by definition’, -0.5 = ‘extremely weak ranged capability’, 0 = ‘nothing to write home about’, 0.5 = ‘has some decent ranged capability, still far from optimal’, 1 = ‘good ranged capability’, 1.5 = 'exceptional ranged capability'.
Defining dual-/multi-class values is tricky, since the number of possible combinations is much too high even within one dual-class (Assassin 2/Cleric 8 is awesome, while Lathander 2/Thief 10 is so-so, etc.). Therefore, I won’t touch them here.
Legend:
• AC – Low AC. One of the most basic requirements, for obvious reasons.
• hp – High hp. Same as above.
• Inv – Simply put, Invisibility and its equivalents are game-changing. One of the most important factors, given the scarcity of Invisibility Potions and the price of Sandthief’s Ring.
• Rng – Ability to deal ranged damage. The most important criterion. If you fight in melee, whatever your AC is, you will get hit. A short streak of bad rolls – and game is over. Statistics are not on your side, unless you remove yourself from a direct confrontation.
• Hst – Haste (movement). Very important for any ranged character, though not one of the core requirements.
• Fear – Fear immunity. Fear is the most important of the Holy Trinity of game-ending Fear/Hold/Charm in BG:EE due to all early-game critical path mages being extremely Horror-happy.
• Hld – Hold immunity. A good thing to have, but only becomes a must in ch. IV (Cloakwood).
• Chrm – Charm immunity. Will save you a lot, but mostly late game, so not very high on a priority list.
• UEA – Useful extraordinary abilities. For example, Set Traps or Storm Shield.
• Sts – Stoneskin/Iron Skins. Not the most important criterion, but definitely a factor.
• Trp – Ability to find (and, ideally, disarm) traps. Hardly crucial, but neat.
• Smn – Ability to summon cannon fodder (e. g., Skeletons) and/or useful support summons (e. g., Nymph).
• 0 pr – Zero (or very low) preparation. For a mage or a cleric, the hardcore run is a demanding chore, requiring constant rebuffing. This is actually a great inconvenience, possibly interfering with your ability to focus on the game.
Race/kit abbreviations:
• Only the three most obviously efficient races (Human, Elf, Half-Orc) are covered.
• Only kits are covered wherever they exist, since pure classes only really matter for dual-/multi-combinations, that are not covered in this table.
H – Human
E – Elf
O – Orc
B – Berserker
W – Wizardslayer
K – Kensai
A – Archer
S – Stalker
B – Beastmaster
C – Cavalier
I – Inquisitor
UH – Undead Hunter
Bg – Blackguard
T – Priest of Talos
H – Priest of Helm
L – Priest of Lathander
TD – Totemic Druid
Sh – Shapeshifter
Av – Avenger
M – Mage/Sorcerer
As – Assassin
BH – Bounty Hunter
Sb – Swashbuckler
Bl – Blade
Sk – Skald
J – Jester
Mn – Monk
Br – Barbarian
Specific race/kit comments:
• Human – Gets his 1.5 points for dual-class capability (though it’s not that great in a low-level module).
• Elf – 90% immunity to charm/sleep is a good bonus, as well as 19 Dex/+1 THAC0 with bows; on the other hand, elves’ hp tends to be lower, which is highly detrimental to the success of a hardcore run.
• Half-Orc – Quite self-explanatory. 19 Str and Con are both great features.
• Berserker – Immunities, high hp, low AC, what’s not to like? But built for melee fighting -- extremely weak ranged capability.
• Wizardslayer – Inability to use magic items hurts, making late game an insurmountable challenge. Otherwise, he’s not horrible.
• Kensai – Avoid like a plague. Low AC, no ranged capability. It’s the single most challenging character for hardcore runs.
• Archer – If/when Ankheg Armor will get patched, Archer, especially Elf Archer, will become a decent pick.
• Stalker – No reason to use this kit in BG:EE. Bad armor, no spells, only x2 backstab multiplier. I believe you can soldier through the game, but it surely won’t be a fast and elegant run-through.
• Beastmaster – Actually, the best Ranger kit for hardcore solo runs, especially if you pick a CG Elf. Fairy Dragon is amazing, and a competently built Beastmaster can be a decent ranged attacker (hint: Dart of Stunning->sling to death). Throw in some summoning capability for a good measure, and we have a solid candidate here.
• Cavalier – Ugh. No ranged capability, so his advantages can’t be discussed seriously. Besides, demonic and draconic creatures are very rare in BG:EE.
• Inquisitor – Not bad, but not very good, either. Speed 1 Dispel Magic helps a lot sometimes, but BG:EE is not really about dispelling powerful magic defenses.
• Undead Hunter – No serious undead to hunt here. Has his strengths, but quite a mediocre option overall.
• Blackguard – This guy is definitely one of the best candidates. Great AC, high hp, fear immunity, warrior THAC0, ability to use Rancor for a transferable +1 to-hit, and, of course, the wonderful Poison Weapon ability. On a negative side, has to rely on Sandthief’s Ring, Potions of Invisibility, Boots of Speed, and Greenstone Amulet to emulate all the important effects he lacks.
• Priest of Talos – Has great abilities, especially Storm Shield. However, weak in ranged combat. Still, a solid option overall (playing Elf or Half-Orc might make him more viable).
• Priest of Helm – Gets a very strong weapon buff off the bat, but it’s melee, so meh. True Sight is always a welcome addition to the arsenal. That said, I wouldn’t pick him.
• Priest of Lathander – The worst of three cleric kits. Boon of Lathander has an extremely short duration and doesn’t confer anything especially great. And Hold Undead... Really, what’s the point? Avoid.
• Totemic Druid – Sic transit gloria. He was a beast (a spirit beast, hehe) in BGTutu, but in BG:EE he’s quite a weak character. When spirit animals finally reach their 5th phase, the one we are used to from BGTutu days (including immunity to normal weapons), every single enemy you face has some kind of enchanted weapon. Druid spells are not that hot, either (notable exclusions: Call Woodland Beings, Iron Skins, Pixie Dust).
• Shapeshifter – A melee-oriented character, therefore, unworthy of serious discussion.
• Avenger – This, on the other hand, is an amazing option. Not until level 7, though. At level 7 he gains two abilities that make him so good at solo runs: Improved Invisibility and Shapeshift: Fire Salamander. The Salamander is a permanently hasted creature (quite a solid melee fighter) that has an ability to breathe three 2d6 fireballs that always hit and ignore any resistances. That’s right, potentially, he can do up to 36 freebie damage to any enemy (100% magical resistance included!) in this form while staying out of harm’s way due to innate Haste. Oh, and level 7 for a Druid is only a matter of 35,000 xp, and thus, easily reachable in 10 minutes of game time (if you know how to tackle it, hehe).
• Mage/Sorcerer – His advantages are obvious. His shortcomings (horrible AC, low hp, long preparation times, high stochastic dependency) tend to be ignored in normal games, where you can safely reload a certain episode over and over again. Unfortunately, in a hardcore run, they are likely to become his downfall. I believe it is possible to make a full hardcore solo run with mage/sorcerer, it’s just going to be a very risky and inconvenient business.
• Assassin – Some good general thief abilities, and, of course, Poison Weapon. On the other hand, THAC0 is bad, AC is even worse, and hp pool tends to get depleted in one or two hits (and hit you they will!). Meh.
• Bounty Hunter – As great as he was in BG2, he’s not worth it in BG:EE. True, he has some great damage-dealing possibilities through his traps, but a solo run with a BH is bound to be slow, tedious, and - truth be told – quite risky. I’d pass.
• Swashbuckler – Basically, a better melee-oriented fighter than other thieves, but without a backstab. No good at all.
• Blade – An universally great option. Both Spins are very efficient (basically, those are a freebie Haste+Kai and a great AC boost), good spell-casting abilities, can pick-pocket, and if he goes TN, can even remove traps. Can do tremendous damage with the Chesley Crusher (HALB13) under Offensive Spin. Probably Greater Malison -> Dart of Stunning -> Chesley is the combo that works best for him.
• Skald – Blade’s minor brother. Hardly spectacular, but since Bards are so great as a solo class, still very much viable.
• Jester – Jester’s song is a Chaos spell (Confusion with -4 save, 30 ft radius) cast every round. Sounds pretty powerful, and so it is in fact. Actually, makes a good ranged fighter due to his ability to confuse enemies indefinitely. A nice option overall. [Please note Jester's song is currently bugged and allows for a save with +2 bonus instead of -4 penalty.]
• Monk – Not much to discuss here. He’s very melee-oriented, so thanks, but no, thanks.
• Barbarian – A Half-Orc Barbarian with ++ in Slings is a pretty powerful ranged attacker (15-18 damage per bullet at level 1 under Rage!). The immunities and the exceptionally high hp are great as well. Definitely a strong candidate.
Future plans:
Eventually, I plan to incorporate multi-class combinations and, maybe, add another criterion (wands) into the table. Though the latter appears doubtful -- IMHO, it's a nice enough icing on the cake, but by no means a core requirement in solo hardcore. The final verdict is yet to be passed, however.
Probably going to add the P:C ratio (potential:consistency, where potential is character's theoretical/late game best [a level 8 Kensai with Potions of Defense and Staff of Striking, anyone?]; while consistency includes meta-game/itemization [the same Kensai specializing in quarterstaves will have to soldier through 90% of the game until he gets Staff of Striking, while a Kensai specializing in halberds may obtain the Chesley Crusher immediately after leaving Candlekeeep], power timings [for example, Avenger suddenly spikes at level 7 after a relatively weak start], and overall ease-of-use/advancement tempo [an Assassin 2/Fighter 8 might be a great character, but he has to grind like crazy in Candlekeep during the prologue to get 5,250 xp necessary]). In what way this ratio will affect the ratings (if at all) remains to be decided.
Post edited by IN1 on
0
This discussion has been closed.
Comments
-> "Only the three most obviously efficient races (Human, Elf, Half-Orc) are covered."
I do not get this. Most especially when talking solo and/or no-reload. Saving throws are absolutely critical and the short people rule at this. Especially Dwarves.
-> Lathander kit. Boon of Lathander, not particularly good? it helps turn the priest into a melee beast. I've always found this ability great, especially for solo'ers.
-> your take on melee. Yes ranged weaponry is important in BG1 but when you solo, at some point it is likely that you will have to melee your way around - unless you skip most fights using invisibility. Obviously it depends on the class you solo with, but for a lot, being both a tank and a melee damage dealer is very important.
-> wands. I read the discussion in the previous (locked) thread. They are so important that I think it might be possible for a solo mage to win the game just on wands. They can turn a battle and are an amazing way for some classes to have access to the kind of magic they normally would not be able to wield. Most are easily avaialble from very early in the game.
-> summons. While the spirit animal of the Totemic Druids has been considerably nerfed, I did not see you take note that the Animate Dead lvl.3 cleric spell now summons.... ghasts. Which makes a solo cleric run now considerably easier than before.
1. Saving throws. While by themselves saving throws are a good thing, they are stochastic. In other words, even if very low, statistically there is always a chance that you will be held, charmed, or feared. If you are playing with no reloads, it means your game is over. That's why I'm emphasizing immunities as opposed to saving throws (you don't need both). Now, who is going to pick a Dwarf over a Half-Orc with saving throws out of the picture?
2. Boon of Lathander. I refuse to discuss a buff that lasts 6 seconds per level seriously. A Cleric will only get to level 8 at best in BG:EE, remember? So: completely useless early game, more viable late game, but really, any other Cleric kit offers better abilities.
3. Actually, being a tank is the worst idea in the world if you play solo no-reloads. Enemies are numerous and deal double damage. Even if you have superb AC, you will get hit on a natural 20. Statistics are strictly against you. Ranged weaponry is nor simply important, it is absolutely crucial if you want to complete your run without relying on dumb luck. Needless to say, I always have a melee weapon of choice on switch, because there are several battles where you have no choice but to resort to melee.
4. I don't think a solo mage can beat this game without reloading on Insane. Way too fragile. Wands help you a lot with damage potential, but damage potential has never been one of mage's weaknesses in the first place. Also, you tend to overestimate the accessibility of good wands. The only two freebie high-damage wands accessible early are, AFAIK, Wand of the Heavens during Obe's training (if you decide to pickpocket your teammates with a ferret) and Wand of Frost at Nashkel Mines Surface.
5. Summons are nice and all, but you can't win any of the critical path battles (essentially, chapter bosses) or the xp battles (Elmisnster's incarnations, Drizzt) with summons. And those are the only battles that really matter: fighting gibberlings does not exactly require ghast summoning
If you are ranged and tend to kite your enemies, singing while kiting is a great option.
1/ you cannot be immune to everything, all the time. In ALL of my solo no-reloads at some point, saving throws kicked in. Whether from a trap, an innate ability of an opponent or a spell that you did not expect at all. Yes they are stochastic, but very factually low saving throws have saved my solo runsd before and just last week, poor saving throw by a human had me insta-die from an unexpected trap (save dice was 10 or 11, had I been a dwarf, I would have lived...).
2/ Solo a priest and he will be lvl.6/7 in no time. Lvl.8 mid-game. 6s = 1round, so we are talking 6,7, or 8 rounds when your priest has 2APR. Combined with Holy Power + DUHM, in 7 rounds you will blast in melee any ennemy bar the 2 or 3 toughest of the game. Having that extra attack when your priest is the best melee damager that can be, is extremely sweet. Try it!
3/ being hit when you solo is very natural. You get very high HP's very early on, so it is manageable. There are plenty fights where you have at some point to end up meleeing your way - otherwise it means a lot of resting and micro-management of each battle. Again it depends on your play style, when I solo I still want to be able to wander around and play normal, otherwise I don't find it really fun. So melee is essential to me, at least for any fighter or cleric type class. It is a different story with mages and thieves.
4/ I was mentioning mages, but wands are not limited to that class. Bards are tailor-made for wands and I am quite sure a solo no-reload of a Bard using only wands has been posted on Biwoare forums in the past. But take cleric. Being able to use the Wand of Fire or the Necklace of Missiles, almost from the start of the game, or the Wand of Sleep - is an incredible boost to your soloing chances. Whenever I solo a cleric those 3 items are the cornerstone of my playthrough, along with Greenstone amulet. wands are key, for many classes/combos, when soloing.
5/ Well again, it is down to how you play the game. Sure the toughest battles are the big deal, but I have had countless runs end while fighting secondary battles. In thsoe, summons are critical and in fact even in major fights, summons are useful (final Sarevok comes to mind...).
Anyway, I have a feeling we solo very differently and you are much more after performance and efficiency than I am, I think. I never mess with Elminster or Drizzt, for instance and I like my RP to still be there.
I like my experience kills, and distracting them here and there for a couple of seconds is simply too much trouble - it isn't really worth the time. Still, the Jester song is better than the classic one when soloing - I mean, bonuses to hit are nice, but if you get it for one round, it's not a big deal.
Also, saying that the Swashbuckler is no good at all is very subjective. A Swashie can easily become one of the best classes around. Having no backstab is of no consequence for me at all - I use it to kill Jaheira only, so who cares XD
When I did my solo BG2 run, I realized very quick the song is worthless (until level 15+ and you get the additional slow effect at with no bonus/penalty) and literally anything else you could do is better. (And also found that dual-wielding speed weapons makes anything with * in two weapon fighting deadly...crappy thac0 or not).
The real strength of a bard is ability to use wands, while still being passable in combat (not overkillingly awesome, just decent). Spell casting is ok...but you need a few levels under your belt before you can really rely on it, and you're better off wearing armor early on (an easily (subjectively) acquirable suit of +1 chainmail can be acquired at the same time as a wand of fire), till you can get your hands on that elven chainmail.
I soloed BG2 enough back in the day. I've played my share of Nethack. I like company.
Still, I enjoy reading about folks' adventures within these restrictions. Always valued insight to be gained that can inform even the most casual of players. Except me, of course. In one ear, out a nostril. It's rather awkward.
2. Well, no, the best melee damager, if we don't count backstabs, is a ++++ Halberd, + Two-Handed Half-Orc Kensai with the Chesley Crusher under Kai. A close second will be any melee character having Poison Weapon buff on. I have no doubt a level 8 Lathander will deal some good damage for 8 rounds, but: (a) clerics are way too limited as far as good weapons are considered -- what is he going to use? Stupefier? pffft! (b) any other cleric kit has much more to offer in a context of a solo run, and for a much longer time, too: Seeking Sword is amazing early game (even more so, if you dual into a Fighter), Storm Shield grants so many important immunities at once, that it's actually tempting to disregard Clerics' lackluster weapon choice
3. It is natural, no doubt. But since hardcore solo runs aren't natural at all, it's essential to resort to unnatural strategies to succeed in those!
4. All right, I will try wands and decide whether they are worth a consideration as a separate criterion.
Yes, we solo differently, no doubt. Though, to be honest, slaying Elminster and Drizzt is a very natural goal to strive to for an evil Blackguard! Overall, I prefer playing evil characters so as not to drop the RP element completely, as it would be a shame to reduce BG to a bunch of numbers.
I guess you'd want to just frolic around, leading your foes in a merry dance of mayhem, until only one remains for you to stick like a pincushion.
Yes, +2 it is
This does not cover any multi-dual combinations, which would probably change the picture a lot.
In general i'm amazed with your work, but not surprised with the result!
Human Dual-classing is overrated, a Fighter/Mage/Thief multiclass in a solo venture is arguably vastly superior to any Dual Class, including Kensai>Mage. A Ranger/Cleric multiclass validates the entire Half-Elven race.
Stalker is actually pretty awesome, it's a full on Warrior Class with double damage backstabs and Hide abuse and the ability to use Priest Scrolls.
Druid Spellcasting is underrated, they have some fantastic spells open to them, the whole Swarm series, Entangle (great for ensuring they stay out of reach and allow you to book it), and summons in general are exceptional.
Probably more issues, but my time is short at present.
Disagree with every single point made, but thanks for your opinion. I would elaborate, but my time is short at present
In general, I believe you are still thinking BG2. Mental inertia is understandable, but rarely a good thing.
1/ hmmm... you're right about fear, but at least both Neira and Mulahey will try to hold you early game. Then indeed, charm. What I usually end up doing is using a charge of the Greenstone Amulet everytime an ennemy spellcaster is around. On traps, I was referring mainly to insta-kills (ie, Pirates' Cave).
2/ Ok, there might be better melee damagers than a buffed PoLathander but still, he's right up there. Ashedeena and the Staff+3 are decent enough weapons to me. I do agree that Seeking Sword is sweet early game - and this is a melee weapon ;-), and so are the Thalos immunities.
3/ fair enough. But what I meant is that facing an ennemy no matter how dangerous, in melee, and being hit on a critical is no big deal. You would most likely only get killed with a back-to-back critical without being able to heal yourself in between, the probability of which is frankly extremely low.
4/ they are, but you would have to have the full list and the class-based restrictions to really evaluate the impact on each class build-up.
I think I have only played once a full BG playthrough with an evil character. And did not enjoy it so much. That's probably where the difference comes from!
After reading through the original thread, I'd like to point out that there are 3 potions of defense you can pick off of Silke's quest
Having missed that begs the question if you missed anything else
Meanwhile, since you are underrating the power of druid spells, it holds as to why you are underrating the added potency of the Ranger/Cleric, which is also widely understood to be the most potent Divine caster in the game.
I'm not sure what you're missing with the Stalker, even an x2 Backstab is a powerful tool, and the fact that the Stalker is probably the only ranger able to be making serious use of stealth, any non-meta runthrough is going to benefit from the scouting ahead that offers, even before the boots of speed make them dominate.
You are well-advised to treat it as an oversight. Archer and Stalker shouldn't been able to dual-class by ToB rules, and I believe they won't be able to do that in BG:EE eventually as well.
@Silchas
Well, while I appreciate the sarcasm, there are Infinity Engine viewers that can be used to extract the exact number of items in the game. I admit I forgot about the 3 PoDs there, because I've always sided with the mercenaries (in fact, when I solo, I don't even bother with Silke's quest). Here's the full list of PoDs for your reading pleasure:
AR0166 - 1 (accessible at chapter V)
AR0711 - 1 (accessible at chapter V)
AR1208 - 1 (accessible at chapter V)
AR2012 - 1 (Werewolf Caves at Balduran's Isle, just very hard to access)
AR2612 - 1 (accessible at chapter VI)
AR4008 - 1 (Gullykin, relatively accessible)
Faltis, Glayde, Tessilian - 1x3 (accessible via Silke's quest in Beregost)
Sorcerous Sundries - 2 (accessible at chapter 5)
Carnival Shop - 2 (relatively accessible)
---------------------------------
6 before reaching chapter 5; 13 overall
Hope that doesn't beg the question if Near Infinity misses something out as well only to accuse poor Sandman of resting 6 times (not 3, I'm deeply sorry!) with his glorious Dwarf Kensai before reaching chapter V. My sincere advice is to stop clutching at straws: it's immaterial if there are 10 or 13 Potions of Defense in the game, the point is you cannot use only 6 potions with 10 minute duration as a valid substitute for armor before you reach chapter V (or only 13 over the course of all game, for that matter).
I have to ask something. Have you ever completed a solo no-reload run with a Stalker? Let me guess -- the answer is no
If I am wrong, and you have, please upload the video for us to admire your unbreakable stealth low-level Stalker and that triumphant Swarm-casting R/C dual-wielding... ugh... well, some OP maces +1, I guess. It's not that time consuming, a critical path no-reload rush-through takes approximately 2 hours.
The reason I rate Rangers (except Beastmasters) so low is that they are unreliable and, by and large, useless characters under solo no-reload Insane conditions. And druid spells are just plain bad, with several high-level (high for BG:EE, that is) exceptions.
What about it? If you think the AC is grants is enough for a melee-only character to live and prosper -- be my guest, try it on a solo Kensai. Just make sure not to break your mouse when you die to some lowly Gnoll's critical
I do not recall ever caring enough to Nethack Baldur's Gate, but perhaps I'll run through again with a recently crafted Ranger/Cleric once I've finished my current F/M/T game and report my findings, though again I sincerely doubt I shall endeavour to video it.
Feigning ignorance does not strengthen your position, nor diminish the validity of my statements, it merely makes you look ignorant, however your passive aggression is duly noted. Whilst the Warhammer +2 is a fairly easy acquisition early game (kiting stealth abuse around Basillus is fairly doable), I was under the impression that ranged combat was the order of the day, and a Sling is by no means substandard in that regard, especially with EE's new sling bullets.
The fact that an R/C has every divine spell and ends up with the same level spell access as a pure cleric and the ability to wear Full Plate makes for a better everything, even before having an additional edge from Entangle and Summon Woodland Creatures.