Grand. Have a comprehensive walkthrough. Forgive me if this is teaching you how to suck eggs, but since your list doesn't include "invisibility" as a cleric feature and gives them a -1 for range, I rather assume you're used to playing other classes. This should be absolutely replicable by anyone with full motor control.
1: Start out by using Command and a sling on a Watcher to pick up plate armour. At absolute least you can kill one Watcher with Two Commands, if you somehow can't, then use a sling and kite them at zero risk. You may lose reputation on it, but you can afford to drop reasonably low without falling as a Ranger. By the time you leave Candlekeep you'll have a Helmet, Large Shield, Plate Mail, two hammers, Sling plus 80, at least, bullets. Outside of Candlekeep you should always have a Sanctuary spell prepared to allow you to rest, or use in emergencies, though you should have 18 Wisdom and three cleric spells at level 1.
2: After getting Gorion's belt (vital for Winter Wolves), head straight for the Ogre Belt-Fetishist. If you're not confident enough in kiting to be able to take it out, you can either drop an Entangle right on it for extra slinging time or use Command to get extra range. Since your sling is dealing 4-11 damage with 18/75 strength or so, you should be able to take it out in twenty hits or so without Command, and with Command's guaranteed damage hits, he should be almost dead before you even need to begin kiting even if you're unlucky with your damage rolls.
Any point you face an enemy you can't take out easily with just a sling, Command it and move out of sight. You can kill a wolf risk free by Commanding it twice and using your sling, but for 65 Exp, it's not really worth it.
Rest whenever you run out of Commands. Always cast Sanctuary just before you rest, and just move away from any random spawns that occur and rest again if it happens.
You can also use your Sanctuary to just move through a known spawn point with no risk, and just rest before it expires (or keep a spare Sanctuary prepared).
3: Moving to the FAI, grab up Evermemory to sell and head to kill Tarnesh. Command him the second you see him (I roleplay my solo characters as oracles myself) Sling once, Command again, Sling again. If he's still alive, Sanctuary and rest, or just allow the guards to kill him.
4: Head north, Command/Sling any Hobgoblins and return Joia's ring for 400 Exp, then head on south. Feel free to Sanctuary across the map if you must, but it shouldn't be necessary, with a sling and Command you should be able to handle anything so long as you make sure it's only one by one.
5: On reaching Beregost, resolve things with Marl for 900 Exp (you should level), then kill him with your hammer (being sure to hit a temple first to up your reputation if it dropped). Marl can't actually kill you, so it's another risk free 1550 Exp. Do Firebead's book fetch for another 300 Exp, and Command/Sling/Command/Sling Karlat to death. If he isn't dead after the first two volleys, just cast Sanctuary and leave, rest, and come back and finish the job - another 270 Exp. Also pick up the Pulveriser; you should be aiming for 3 pips in TWF, 2 in Warhammer, 2 in Sling and 1 in Mace, the 1 in Mace coming as soon as you level enough.
6: Head West to High Hedge and Command/Sling the gnolls for Perdue's sword. You can then turn it in for 500 Exp in Beregost.
By now you should have enough money to grab the 20 Sling +1 bullets from Feldepost's and possibly more from the smith, depending how religiously you've been vending. Take those west back to High Hedge.
7: Flesh Golems get a save against Command, but they have an AC of 9 and move slowly, if you cannot kill both within 30 bullets, I would be surprised, but even if you cannot you can always go grab more. Another 4,000 Exp should leave you at Cleric level 3. If you spawn a Gnoll whilst kiting and aren't confident kiting two enemies, command it and move out of range. If you spawn a skeleton, turn undead and walk around it whilst you kite. They're level 1 and have a THAC0 of 19; even if it were to crit you three times in succession without being turned, since you have a helmet you'll still have enough health to use a potion or run away whilst asking the random number god why.
8: After killing both, head inside and buy a potion of Freedom. Head on South and grab Mellicamp for a 50/50 chance of another 2,000. Whilst you're there, pick off Zargal's crew one by one. Zargal's worth another 650, and the ramp leading to where they are tends to spawn Ghouls and Ghasts, neither of which can hurt you.
9: From here, you can head South to kill off the four or five Half Ogres one by one. They move slower than you, and get no save to Command, so that's another easy bunch of exp and you can get more by going to see the Paladin about it, then go kill Bassilus.
10: Fighting Bassilus risk free without bothering to drink the two potions you pick up (Clarity and Freedom) takes a bit of prep-work but is totally doable. First, gather up dead skeleton and hobgoblin stuff and drop them in a single spot near his stone circle (you can do it right outside the circle easily enough, it just needs to be outside of his line of sight). You want enough trash that you won't be able to move with it equipped.
Bas' first move, once you've talked him out of his army, is to cast Rigid Thinking. Move to the spot where all the tat is sitting and pick it up. You'll be overloaded and unable to move. Because he can't see you once his spell casts, if it fails, you'll be sat there, confused yet unable to do anything from it. If it succeeds, then just drop all the stuff again, he only has one Rigid Thinking spell.
Step out from cover again and try casting Command. If it fails, he'll cast Hold Person, so step back behind the pillar, the same principle applies - out of sight, out of mind, you'll be held or not, but he won't come and kill you.
If you do successfully Command him, follow up with a Hold Person spell, then if that fails, step back into cover and wait twelve seconds - sometimes he likes to finish casting the spell Command interrupted, a minor bug.
Rinse and repeat once more for his remaining hold person (Santuarest if necessary), then he's out of spells and you can kite him normally.
By this point you'll have 5k gold from turning in his holy symbol, the best hammer and best mace in the game, and are probably tough enough to walk to Nashkel and pick up the Ankheg plate. You can head north and use Sanctuary to clear the Ankheg nest, get the free Exp from Noober, and murder Greywolf, the biggest worry in life being not running out of sling bullets.
If you're feeling cheeky, you can even head west and kill a certain 5k Exp Sirine, then East to kill a few basilisks with a helpful Ghoul, and this should probably be enough to get you, if not all the way to level 5, far enough and with a strong enough set up that I'd expect any veteran player to be able to finish the job and subsequently finish all the Basilisks to boot. Once you hit level 5, taking out the remaining Basilisks and entirety of the Sirine coast is simple.
@Marfig - You'd think so wouldn't you? But no, summons don't trigger traps any more, means you can send them to cross over obviously trapped places for you at no risk, but also means you need to tank a lot of damage at times.
@Moopy - Greenstone Amulet for the Wisdom Tome, every time. I bought it just for that one trap.
Some of the traps are fire/lightning which are easy enough to handle (stacking just the two Fire resistance self-buff spells is full immunity to any of the fire traps, and a single Protection from Lightning takes care of all the lightning ones - at least if you can remember which is which, I actually took a lot of damage from forgetting.
Find Traps will let you dodge most corridor traps - you can walk in the "black spot" of a corridor, most traps only cover the visible area and Find Traps will show you.
For some, the only thing you can do is tank it, like the chest with the +2 mace in. You won't be able to do anything except chug potions and walk away as quickly as possible, hoping to either reach the stairs or for the darts to finally stop hitting you.
The plus side is that since you're by yourself, you'll be unable to loot every chest (like the one containing Kiel's awesome buckler, sadly), and that'll stop you from triggering the vast majority of traps. Just prepare for the ones you have to and ignore 90% of the containers, you're there for very particular things after all. Consider taking the time with another game to just map out the important traps and what kind they are to help avoid the pain in your hardcore game.
Edit: In fact, checking closer on your list, it appears I was mistaken. You've given clerics a -0.5 range, indicating "extremely weak"; no invisiblity, and no Hold Immunity (Clerics pick up Freedom of movement as a 4th level spell).
A serious question. Have you ever actually played a cleric before?
I suppose the second question is: Why isn't the ability to wear a helmet a fundamental component of a viable hardcore run class in your eyes?
>Edit: In fact, checking closer on your list, it appears I was mistaken. You've given clerics a -0.5 range, i>ndicating "extremely weak"; no invisiblity, and no Hold Immunity (Clerics pick up Freedom of movement >as a 4th level spell).
>A serious question. Have you ever actually played a cleric before?
I don't know what list you've been 'checking closer on', but it surely wasn't mine. They get 1 both for Invisibility and for Hold immunity in my list.
Stop embarrassing yourself, you've done that more than enough by this point (and more embarrassment is going to come after I try out your allegedly fantastic R/C, trust me): the abbreviations are not that difficult to decypher, there is a full legend below the list.
I'd like to ask you to stop spreading misleading information. Now, if you opt to misinform people concerning your own experience with R/C -- it's your call, ultimately; but don't do that again regarding my list, please. Luckily, it's there for all to see.
Nah, it wasn't Cavalier he was referring to. Cavaliers get -1, not -0.5 for ranged (guess why). Probably just trying to get on my nerves in the dumbest way imaginable.
Anyway, there was no need to guess what each abbreviation means. For a person able to produce/fabricate detailed reports, Pantalion is surprisingly negligent while commenting on other posters' input.
You know the normal response when someone catches a mistake in your work is to thank them like a normal human being, not "change the picture gambling that the person who told you a) Is incapable of remembering your original scores for the cleric were 3.75, 3.25 and 2.75 respectively, much like anyone else who looked at the chart, and b) Did not still have the tab open after checking it over the night before and couldn't prove it with a screenshot.
I apologise, I understand now that your ego is very much dependent on the perception of being correct, and pointing out your mistakes is causing you discomfort. I shall bow out of this thread so as not to cause you further dismay. I've little doubt that you can mess up the Cleric/Ranger whilst using the walkthrough provided, but if you do I'm sure someone else will garner some benefit out of it.
@Nukenin - Yeah, I edited when I realised the mistake and looked at the kits correctly. Best of luck staying in this thread.
Wow. That's getting out of control. You, my friend, are ridiculous.
Look at the original table, please. The only change I've introduced in the second version, uploaded AFTER I replied to you, was removing Hold immunity from 2 out of 3 Druid kits. I've never touched Cleric kits, it's my first change since the original table was uploaded.
I'm sure there is a timestamp somewhere on the image hosting I'm using, so you can see when the first picture was uploaded. The scores for cleric never were that low, you just read it all wrong. The second possibility is that you are trying to provoke me, of course.
Better still: I'm sure the moderators can see the history of post edits. Let's ask them if the link to the first table was changed.
Under normal conditions, I wouldn't bother, but your blatant lies and fabricated accusations are way over the top. What are you thinking of, really? Either way, the truth (namely: I've never changed the original table since December 14) will be established, it's not that difficult. I don't know what you are trying to achieve here, but you are going to get a very bad reputation after that.
Hell, we don't even need to involve moderators. Anyone with history enabled can see it's the same link to the same file it was before your 'discovery'.
Oh, you've been talking about screenshots. Please, I'm all attention
@IN1: why not chill out a bit? the truth is that your data as well as playthrough videos are very valuable, but at the same time Pantalion comes accross as a very experienced player making very good points which I enjoy reading. The rest is really not that relevant to all those enjoying this thread, I guess.
Ignatius, really... If someone comes into your thread and points out some fabricated ridiculous inaccuracies, then, after you catch him, goes on to imply the table had been 'doctored' mysteriously while he was sleeping, how do you react?! It has nothing to do with whether Pantalion is experienced or not.
And, by the way, try to find the table in your browser's history, please. I need a witness
@IN1: am not interested in that story nor getting in the middle of it. I am interested in your table and what's behind it, your solo no-reload experience, new ideas on the game, etc... also I just lost my dear Halfling Cleric on my no-reload run, see here: http://forum.baldursgate.com/discussion/12581/the-no-reload-challenge-spoiler-warning#latest this is how experienced I am at this, still getting done by a low-level mage...
In response to the half dozen or so messages IN1 has sent, I've checked the tables again, you were right @Nukenin, I was still totally reading the "C" column on and comparing it to the T/H/L columns, sorry for the mistake, and sorry for the inference you changed them, just me being overtired and illiterate.
This still leaves the unanswered questions.
1: Have you actually ever seriously played a solo cleric before? 2: Why are helmets not considered a vital aspect of a hardcore run?
Whilst I'm looking at it, why isn't Turn Undead mentioned? It's a very handy ability considering it can be infinitely repeated whilst kiting until it works, a lot of undead are nasty in melee, and skeletons in particular are missile resistant.
I'm also fascinated why you've marked Slings as being a negative factor in ranged attacks; Slings allow Shields, which is awesome, and add Strength bonus, meaning they can hit drastically harder per shot than arrows on average, especially when buffed.
1. A pure Cleric? Yes, I've played a Priest of Talos. Not for long, though.
2. Because I have penalized wizard and rogue type characters enough for having low hp/AC. Since the helmet vs. no-helmet classes opposition is the very same high hp+low AC vs. low hp+high AC one, there is no need to widen the gap between them further by artificially introducing more criteria.
3. Turn Undead. Because only necessary aspects of character abilities are mentioned as criteria. Since during my Blackguard run I haven't used Turn Undead once in a reasonably encounter-affecting way, I cannot even consider it as a secondary criterion.
4. Slings. As for me, I'm fascinated, most of all, by your apparent inability to read a single post from its start to its end. Granted, it's a long post, but really, I think it's worth it to familiarize yourself with the text you are attempting to criticize. I recommend Slings unequivocally as a weapon of choice for a Half-Orc Barbarian: "A Half-Orc Barbarian with ++ in Slings is a pretty powerful ranged attacker (15-18 damage per bullet at level 1 under Rage!)". For a non-Half-Orc, non-warrior character, slings are not that hot, though. A Cleric having Str 18 will not be doing much damage with his sling, unless you throw in Draw Upon Holy Might. Before my Blackguard run, I've considered using sling+shield instead of longbow seriously, and these are the reasons I decided in longbow's favor: (a) THAC0 is more important than damage for a character having Poison Weapon, especially early game, when hitting enemies is a bit of a challenge; (b) meta-game: slings are extremely poorly itemized -- there is exactly one really good sling in the game, and it's hidden in a super-trapped chest very deep inside Durlag's dungeon, whereas you get the best longbow in the game just by following the critical path; (c) Arrows of Detonation -- slings have no means to convert the Poison Weapon damage into the AoE auto-hit format; (d) Blackguard's AC is sufficiently low without shields -- once you reach the golden spot, having a further -2 AC looks like a waste of time and effort.
There is a huge difference between responding to someone with "You're wrong" as opposed to "I disagree." Some posts in this thread, as sincerely entertaining and insightful as they've been, have shown a lack of understanding the difference.
There is a huge difference between responding to someone with "You're wrong" as opposed to "I disagree." Some posts in this thread, as sincerely entertaining and insightful as they've been, have shown a lack of understanding the difference.
I couldn't agree more. This thread is so unnecessarily hostile that I have been extremely hesitant to chime in. I'm also trying to honor Shandyr's request that we try to keep the thread on topic and flame free, but the fact of that matter is I AM interested in this thread, but because the "play nice or we'll take your toys away" warnings haven't corrected the behavior problems in the slightest, the interest that I have is crushed.
Maybe on his next run, the OP should take some party members along, if only in the hope that the NPCs might teach him a thing or two about how to engage with others in polite society.
1: Duly noted. I hope you enjoy the experience, Clerics are a very entertaining solo class, particularly the Ranger/Cleric.
2: Dovetailed into HP total is fine, so long as you're accounting for it, AC is ultimately less important later on when only crits will tend to hit you, but Crit immunity is awesome, and being able to use Kiel's Helmet (instant cheesy switcharoo the instant an enemy mage casts horror) is a great bonus.
3: Playstyle is fine, though since the Blackguard doesn't get Sanctuary they're presumably restricted from being able to herd undead away from choice enemies or drive away enemies they want to fight.
4: Since I'm asking why you've marked sling as a negative factor, which you clearly have since the Cleric (the context of the post) has a -0.5 score in it, your suggestion that I am remiss in not mentioning that it's not a negative factor elsewhere is irrelevant in the face of the fact that it most definitely is a negative factor there. It's also entirely irrelevant (though a nice bonus for Blackguards/Assassins) that Clerics cannot apply poison damage to ranged explosion attacks, because Clerics a) Cannot apply poison damage to ranged attacks anyway, and b) Can use potions, which roughly as numerous, to replicate the boom where necessary, and potions, unlike arrows, don't need to hit.
Even 1D4+3 damage from an 18 Strength is better than 1D6 from a bow when you only get one attack whilst kiting. A +1 Sling is available early on, and a decent (admittedly not really good) +2 THAC0 Sling is I believe in Sorcerous Sundries (I forget where exactly, but I think it was the BG area I ran across it in my R/C runthrough, if I see it again I'll say where exactly).
You've given the cleric penalties for "preparation", but have you accounted for the benefits of that preparation? Why wouldn't you throw on a DUHM? Clerics don't need to wait for later chapters to get it, they get three level 2 spells as soon as you hit 3,000 Exp, and as a cleric you have absolutely no trouble resting between fights whenever you run out of spells or need to change your line-up (worst case being that you have to walk out of the building; the Cleric can Sanctuary-rest right from level 1).
DUHM lasts ten rounds, giving you +1 to hit and +5 to damage, up to 21 Strength when you hit the late game's tomes and improved DUHM, it's a very quick and easy spell to shoot off whenever necessary, and with Command, the cleric hits automatically in the vital early game anyway since most enemies get no save.
The chest, incidentally, isn't too bad, it's just a lightning bolt trap, which is no threat to a cleric, just throw up a Protection from Lightning and move on; the +2 mace is the lethal one.
>Since I'm asking why you've marked sling as a negative factor, which you clearly have since the Cleric (the >context of the post) has a -0.5 score in it, your suggestion that I am remiss in not mentioning that it's >not a negative factor elsewhere is irrelevant in the face of the fact that it most definitely is a negative >factor there.
To refresh your memory: "I'm also fascinated why you've marked Slings as being a negative factor in ranged attacks; Slings allow Shields, which is awesome, and add Strength bonus, meaning they can hit drastically harder per shot than arrows on average, especially when buffed."
Where do you mention specifically Clerics here? Or should I presume that you always discuss exclusively Clerics by default?
Generally speaking, I still feel you grossly misinterpret my view of a hardcore solo run. IMHO, it should not take 20 hours, it should not include superfluous heroics (descending into the depths of Durlag's dungeon to get some stuff) and unnecessary fights. It should be as concise and effortless as possible. If a certain character can kill Drizzt at level 1 safely in under 1 minute, while another character can kill Drizzt at level 4 after 15 minutes of dangerous kiting, I will tend to rate the former much higher (unless he's utter crap in all other respects).
>A +1 Sling is available early on, and a decent (admittedly not really good) +2 THAC0 Sling is I believe in >Sorcerous Sundries (I forget where exactly, but I think it was the BG area I ran across it in my R/C runthrough, >if I see it again I'll say where exactly).
Black Lily, not Sorcerous Sundries. None of the weapons you mention is very good, and considering the fact the latter is available only in chapter V, while you get a +3 longbow following the critical path in chapter III...
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2: After getting Gorion's belt (vital for Winter Wolves), head straight for the Ogre Belt-Fetishist. If you're not confident enough in kiting to be able to take it out, you can either drop an Entangle right on it for extra slinging time or use Command to get extra range. Since your sling is dealing 4-11 damage with 18/75 strength or so, you should be able to take it out in twenty hits or so without Command, and with Command's guaranteed damage hits, he should be almost dead before you even need to begin kiting even if you're unlucky with your damage rolls.
Any point you face an enemy you can't take out easily with just a sling, Command it and move out of sight. You can kill a wolf risk free by Commanding it twice and using your sling, but for 65 Exp, it's not really worth it.
Rest whenever you run out of Commands. Always cast Sanctuary just before you rest, and just move away from any random spawns that occur and rest again if it happens.
You can also use your Sanctuary to just move through a known spawn point with no risk, and just rest before it expires (or keep a spare Sanctuary prepared).
3: Moving to the FAI, grab up Evermemory to sell and head to kill Tarnesh. Command him the second you see him (I roleplay my solo characters as oracles myself) Sling once, Command again, Sling again. If he's still alive, Sanctuary and rest, or just allow the guards to kill him.
4: Head north, Command/Sling any Hobgoblins and return Joia's ring for 400 Exp, then head on south. Feel free to Sanctuary across the map if you must, but it shouldn't be necessary, with a sling and Command you should be able to handle anything so long as you make sure it's only one by one.
5: On reaching Beregost, resolve things with Marl for 900 Exp (you should level), then kill him with your hammer (being sure to hit a temple first to up your reputation if it dropped). Marl can't actually kill you, so it's another risk free 1550 Exp. Do Firebead's book fetch for another 300 Exp, and Command/Sling/Command/Sling Karlat to death. If he isn't dead after the first two volleys, just cast Sanctuary and leave, rest, and come back and finish the job - another 270 Exp. Also pick up the Pulveriser; you should be aiming for 3 pips in TWF, 2 in Warhammer, 2 in Sling and 1 in Mace, the 1 in Mace coming as soon as you level enough.
6: Head West to High Hedge and Command/Sling the gnolls for Perdue's sword. You can then turn it in for 500 Exp in Beregost.
By now you should have enough money to grab the 20 Sling +1 bullets from Feldepost's and possibly more from the smith, depending how religiously you've been vending. Take those west back to High Hedge.
7: Flesh Golems get a save against Command, but they have an AC of 9 and move slowly, if you cannot kill both within 30 bullets, I would be surprised, but even if you cannot you can always go grab more. Another 4,000 Exp should leave you at Cleric level 3.
If you spawn a Gnoll whilst kiting and aren't confident kiting two enemies, command it and move out of range.
If you spawn a skeleton, turn undead and walk around it whilst you kite. They're level 1 and have a THAC0 of 19; even if it were to crit you three times in succession without being turned, since you have a helmet you'll still have enough health to use a potion or run away whilst asking the random number god why.
8: After killing both, head inside and buy a potion of Freedom. Head on South and grab Mellicamp for a 50/50 chance of another 2,000. Whilst you're there, pick off Zargal's crew one by one. Zargal's worth another 650, and the ramp leading to where they are tends to spawn Ghouls and Ghasts, neither of which can hurt you.
9: From here, you can head South to kill off the four or five Half Ogres one by one. They move slower than you, and get no save to Command, so that's another easy bunch of exp and you can get more by going to see the Paladin about it, then go kill Bassilus.
10: Fighting Bassilus risk free without bothering to drink the two potions you pick up (Clarity and Freedom) takes a bit of prep-work but is totally doable. First, gather up dead skeleton and hobgoblin stuff and drop them in a single spot near his stone circle (you can do it right outside the circle easily enough, it just needs to be outside of his line of sight). You want enough trash that you won't be able to move with it equipped.
Bas' first move, once you've talked him out of his army, is to cast Rigid Thinking. Move to the spot where all the tat is sitting and pick it up. You'll be overloaded and unable to move. Because he can't see you once his spell casts, if it fails, you'll be sat there, confused yet unable to do anything from it. If it succeeds, then just drop all the stuff again, he only has one Rigid Thinking spell.
Step out from cover again and try casting Command. If it fails, he'll cast Hold Person, so step back behind the pillar, the same principle applies - out of sight, out of mind, you'll be held or not, but he won't come and kill you.
If you do successfully Command him, follow up with a Hold Person spell, then if that fails, step back into cover and wait twelve seconds - sometimes he likes to finish casting the spell Command interrupted, a minor bug.
Rinse and repeat once more for his remaining hold person (Santuarest if necessary), then he's out of spells and you can kite him normally.
By this point you'll have 5k gold from turning in his holy symbol, the best hammer and best mace in the game, and are probably tough enough to walk to Nashkel and pick up the Ankheg plate. You can head north and use Sanctuary to clear the Ankheg nest, get the free Exp from Noober, and murder Greywolf, the biggest worry in life being not running out of sling bullets.
If you're feeling cheeky, you can even head west and kill a certain 5k Exp Sirine, then East to kill a few basilisks with a helpful Ghoul, and this should probably be enough to get you, if not all the way to level 5, far enough and with a strong enough set up that I'd expect any veteran player to be able to finish the job and subsequently finish all the Basilisks to boot. Once you hit level 5, taking out the remaining Basilisks and entirety of the Sirine coast is simple.
@Marfig - You'd think so wouldn't you? But no, summons don't trigger traps any more, means you can send them to cross over obviously trapped places for you at no risk, but also means you need to tank a lot of damage at times.
@Moopy - Greenstone Amulet for the Wisdom Tome, every time. I bought it just for that one trap.
Some of the traps are fire/lightning which are easy enough to handle (stacking just the two Fire resistance self-buff spells is full immunity to any of the fire traps, and a single Protection from Lightning takes care of all the lightning ones - at least if you can remember which is which, I actually took a lot of damage from forgetting.
Find Traps will let you dodge most corridor traps - you can walk in the "black spot" of a corridor, most traps only cover the visible area and Find Traps will show you.
For some, the only thing you can do is tank it, like the chest with the +2 mace in. You won't be able to do anything except chug potions and walk away as quickly as possible, hoping to either reach the stairs or for the darts to finally stop hitting you.
The plus side is that since you're by yourself, you'll be unable to loot every chest (like the one containing Kiel's awesome buckler, sadly), and that'll stop you from triggering the vast majority of traps. Just prepare for the ones you have to and ignore 90% of the containers, you're there for very particular things after all. Consider taking the time with another game to just map out the important traps and what kind they are to help avoid the pain in your hardcore game.
Edit: In fact, checking closer on your list, it appears I was mistaken. You've given clerics a -0.5 range, indicating "extremely weak"; no invisiblity, and no Hold Immunity (Clerics pick up Freedom of movement as a 4th level spell).
A serious question. Have you ever actually played a cleric before?
I suppose the second question is: Why isn't the ability to wear a helmet a fundamental component of a viable hardcore run class in your eyes?
>Edit: In fact, checking closer on your list, it appears I was mistaken. You've given clerics a -0.5 range, i>ndicating "extremely weak"; no invisiblity, and no Hold Immunity (Clerics pick up Freedom of movement >as a 4th level spell).
>A serious question. Have you ever actually played a cleric before?
I don't know what list you've been 'checking closer on', but it surely wasn't mine. They get 1 both for Invisibility and for Hold immunity in my list.
Stop embarrassing yourself, you've done that more than enough by this point (and more embarrassment is going to come after I try out your allegedly fantastic R/C, trust me): the abbreviations are not that difficult to decypher, there is a full legend below the list.
I'd like to ask you to stop spreading misleading information. Now, if you opt to misinform people concerning your own experience with R/C -- it's your call, ultimately; but don't do that again regarding my list, please. Luckily, it's there for all to see.
Nah, it wasn't Cavalier he was referring to. Cavaliers get -1, not -0.5 for ranged (guess why). Probably just trying to get on my nerves in the dumbest way imaginable.
Anyway, there was no need to guess what each abbreviation means. For a person able to produce/fabricate detailed reports, Pantalion is surprisingly negligent while commenting on other posters' input.
I apologise, I understand now that your ego is very much dependent on the perception of being correct, and pointing out your mistakes is causing you discomfort. I shall bow out of this thread so as not to cause you further dismay. I've little doubt that you can mess up the Cleric/Ranger whilst using the walkthrough provided, but if you do I'm sure someone else will garner some benefit out of it.
@Nukenin - Yeah, I edited when I realised the mistake and looked at the kits correctly. Best of luck staying in this thread.
Wow. That's getting out of control. You, my friend, are ridiculous.
Look at the original table, please. The only change I've introduced in the second version, uploaded AFTER I replied to you, was removing Hold immunity from 2 out of 3 Druid kits. I've never touched Cleric kits, it's my first change since the original table was uploaded.
I'm sure there is a timestamp somewhere on the image hosting I'm using, so you can see when the first picture was uploaded. The scores for cleric never were that low, you just read it all wrong. The second possibility is that you are trying to provoke me, of course.
Better still: I'm sure the moderators can see the history of post edits. Let's ask them if the link to the first table was changed.
Under normal conditions, I wouldn't bother, but your blatant lies and fabricated accusations are way over the top. What are you thinking of, really? Either way, the truth (namely: I've never changed the original table since December 14) will be established, it's not that difficult. I don't know what you are trying to achieve here, but you are going to get a very bad reputation after that.
Hell, we don't even need to involve moderators. Anyone with history enabled can see it's the same link to the same file it was before your 'discovery'.
Oh, you've been talking about screenshots. Please, I'm all attention
Ignatius, really... If someone comes into your thread and points out some fabricated ridiculous inaccuracies, then, after you catch him, goes on to imply the table had been 'doctored' mysteriously while he was sleeping, how do you react?! It has nothing to do with whether Pantalion is experienced or not.
And, by the way, try to find the table in your browser's history, please. I need a witness
http://forum.baldursgate.com/discussion/12581/the-no-reload-challenge-spoiler-warning#latest
this is how experienced I am at this, still getting done by a low-level mage...
All right, hopefully we'll get this issue sorted privately with Pantalion.
And yes, I will gladly read the thread you are linking to
This still leaves the unanswered questions.
1: Have you actually ever seriously played a solo cleric before?
2: Why are helmets not considered a vital aspect of a hardcore run?
Whilst I'm looking at it, why isn't Turn Undead mentioned? It's a very handy ability considering it can be infinitely repeated whilst kiting until it works, a lot of undead are nasty in melee, and skeletons in particular are missile resistant.
I'm also fascinated why you've marked Slings as being a negative factor in ranged attacks; Slings allow Shields, which is awesome, and add Strength bonus, meaning they can hit drastically harder per shot than arrows on average, especially when buffed.
1. A pure Cleric? Yes, I've played a Priest of Talos. Not for long, though.
2. Because I have penalized wizard and rogue type characters enough for having low hp/AC. Since the helmet vs. no-helmet classes opposition is the very same high hp+low AC vs. low hp+high AC one, there is no need to widen the gap between them further by artificially introducing more criteria.
3. Turn Undead. Because only necessary aspects of character abilities are mentioned as criteria. Since during my Blackguard run I haven't used Turn Undead once in a reasonably encounter-affecting way, I cannot even consider it as a secondary criterion.
4. Slings. As for me, I'm fascinated, most of all, by your apparent inability to read a single post from its start to its end. Granted, it's a long post, but really, I think it's worth it to familiarize yourself with the text you are attempting to criticize. I recommend Slings unequivocally as a weapon of choice for a Half-Orc Barbarian: "A Half-Orc Barbarian with ++ in Slings is a pretty powerful ranged attacker (15-18 damage per bullet at level 1 under Rage!)". For a non-Half-Orc, non-warrior character, slings are not that hot, though. A Cleric having Str 18 will not be doing much damage with his sling, unless you throw in Draw Upon Holy Might. Before my Blackguard run, I've considered using sling+shield instead of longbow seriously, and these are the reasons I decided in longbow's favor: (a) THAC0 is more important than damage for a character having Poison Weapon, especially early game, when hitting enemies is a bit of a challenge; (b) meta-game: slings are extremely poorly itemized -- there is exactly one really good sling in the game, and it's hidden in a super-trapped chest very deep inside Durlag's dungeon, whereas you get the best longbow in the game just by following the critical path; (c) Arrows of Detonation -- slings have no means to convert the Poison Weapon damage into the AoE auto-hit format; (d) Blackguard's AC is sufficiently low without shields -- once you reach the golden spot, having a further -2 AC looks like a waste of time and effort.
Maybe on his next run, the OP should take some party members along, if only in the hope that the NPCs might teach him a thing or two about how to engage with others in polite society.
2: Dovetailed into HP total is fine, so long as you're accounting for it, AC is ultimately less important later on when only crits will tend to hit you, but Crit immunity is awesome, and being able to use Kiel's Helmet (instant cheesy switcharoo the instant an enemy mage casts horror) is a great bonus.
3: Playstyle is fine, though since the Blackguard doesn't get Sanctuary they're presumably restricted from being able to herd undead away from choice enemies or drive away enemies they want to fight.
4: Since I'm asking why you've marked sling as a negative factor, which you clearly have since the Cleric (the context of the post) has a -0.5 score in it, your suggestion that I am remiss in not mentioning that it's not a negative factor elsewhere is irrelevant in the face of the fact that it most definitely is a negative factor there. It's also entirely irrelevant (though a nice bonus for Blackguards/Assassins) that Clerics cannot apply poison damage to ranged explosion attacks, because Clerics a) Cannot apply poison damage to ranged attacks anyway, and b) Can use potions, which roughly as numerous, to replicate the boom where necessary, and potions, unlike arrows, don't need to hit.
Even 1D4+3 damage from an 18 Strength is better than 1D6 from a bow when you only get one attack whilst kiting. A +1 Sling is available early on, and a decent (admittedly not really good) +2 THAC0 Sling is I believe in Sorcerous Sundries (I forget where exactly, but I think it was the BG area I ran across it in my R/C runthrough, if I see it again I'll say where exactly).
You've given the cleric penalties for "preparation", but have you accounted for the benefits of that preparation? Why wouldn't you throw on a DUHM? Clerics don't need to wait for later chapters to get it, they get three level 2 spells as soon as you hit 3,000 Exp, and as a cleric you have absolutely no trouble resting between fights whenever you run out of spells or need to change your line-up (worst case being that you have to walk out of the building; the Cleric can Sanctuary-rest right from level 1).
DUHM lasts ten rounds, giving you +1 to hit and +5 to damage, up to 21 Strength when you hit the late game's tomes and improved DUHM, it's a very quick and easy spell to shoot off whenever necessary, and with Command, the cleric hits automatically in the vital early game anyway since most enemies get no save.
The chest, incidentally, isn't too bad, it's just a lightning bolt trap, which is no threat to a cleric, just throw up a Protection from Lightning and move on; the +2 mace is the lethal one.
>Since I'm asking why you've marked sling as a negative factor, which you clearly have since the Cleric (the >context of the post) has a -0.5 score in it, your suggestion that I am remiss in not mentioning that it's >not a negative factor elsewhere is irrelevant in the face of the fact that it most definitely is a negative >factor there.
To refresh your memory: "I'm also fascinated why you've marked Slings as being a negative factor in ranged attacks; Slings allow Shields, which is awesome, and add Strength bonus, meaning they can hit drastically harder per shot than arrows on average, especially when buffed."
Where do you mention specifically Clerics here? Or should I presume that you always discuss exclusively Clerics by default?
Generally speaking, I still feel you grossly misinterpret my view of a hardcore solo run. IMHO, it should not take 20 hours, it should not include superfluous heroics (descending into the depths of Durlag's dungeon to get some stuff) and unnecessary fights. It should be as concise and effortless as possible. If a certain character can kill Drizzt at level 1 safely in under 1 minute, while another character can kill Drizzt at level 4 after 15 minutes of dangerous kiting, I will tend to rate the former much higher (unless he's utter crap in all other respects).
>A +1 Sling is available early on, and a decent (admittedly not really good) +2 THAC0 Sling is I believe in >Sorcerous Sundries (I forget where exactly, but I think it was the BG area I ran across it in my R/C runthrough, >if I see it again I'll say where exactly).
Black Lily, not Sorcerous Sundries. None of the weapons you mention is very good, and considering the fact the latter is available only in chapter V, while you get a +3 longbow following the critical path in chapter III...
This thread has been warned a couple of times now to keep it civil. Since that lesson clearly hasn't sunk in, I'm going to have to close the thread.
@IN1, in the future I recommend taking a less hostile attitude toward those who disagree with you.