Serious bug: Sirene Rigid Thinking spell has permanent duration

BelgarathMTH

Observed behavior: Ajantis, with Protection from Evil, Free Action from Spider Sword, Boots of Speed, and Helm of Defense, falls under a Rigid Thinking spell cast by a sirene.

The duration is permanent. I led my party away and waited three in game hours to test this, while sirenes whaled away at poor Ajantis, but only doing one damage per hit, on a roll of 19-20.

Expected behaivor: The Rigid Thinking spell cast by sirenes will last a normal amount of rounds, and should wear off.

They are not repeat casting it. I examined the actions window transcript. Nothing was happening but sirene default attacks on Ajantis that were hitting on only a roll of 19-20 and doing one damage on hit. The Rigid Thinking spell does not end, ever. The party is stuck on the map unless Ajantis dies, or the party attacks the sirenes and manages to win. I did not test whether the spell would finally end if the party defeated the sirenes with Ajantis still alive, as I did not see a way to win the battle with this bug. It would have been a guaranteed party wipe.

Avenger_teambg

Free action is physical protection, not mental. Berserk, on the other hand, might help. Try Minsc.

BelgarathMTH

It's not succumbing to the spell that's a bug. It's the permanent duration. I listed the items he was wearing in case there's an interaction in the program producing the bug.

Avenger_teambg

They have some bow causing feeblemind. That effect remains for a long time without clerical help. But it is not permanent, unless it is renewed.
I don't think this is a bug. At that point, you can either
1. attack the sirines and rescue Ajantis
2. drop him from your team.

aldain

Don't the Sirines cause Rigid Thinking on a successful meele hit? I've observed that behavior at least. That would explain why the duration seems permanent.. it'd get reapplied every time they managed to hit him in meele.

BelgarathMTH

Okay, it's possible they were just reapplying the effect over and over. So I might have jumped the gun in reporting it as a bug.

ZanathKariashi

Yeah, their kiss/bite/whatever causes rigid thinking. Though it should being popping up saying he saved, periodically (there's no report when it fails).

BelgarathMTH

@ZanathKariashi, that's what made me suspect a bug. There were no further saving throws made after he succumbed. Like I said, I waited for three in-game hours, and there was absolutely nothing going on in the actions window but rolls to hit, and a very occasional one point of damage to AJ, who was just standing there the whole time.

Banex

I've just come across this.Sirens casted rigid thinking on one of my NPCS but where then killed by the rest of my party.Sat waiting like a dummy at my computer for five minutes before realising i'd have to load my last save because the spell wasn't going to wear off.Realised i hadn't quick saved and had to load the auto save and do the whole map again,fighting off rage quit,in the process

BelgarathMTH

I suppose it could be an intentional upgrade to their lethality. I know that it wasn't like this in pre-BG:EE versions of the game. But if it's intentional, it makes sirines really lethal. You have to come up with a strategy to avoid their death-spells.

I tried using Silence, but it was very unreliable, what with its allowed save.

I did come up with a foolproof sirine-killing strategy, although I felt guilty using it as a lawful good character - I had Yeslick cast two Animate Dead, and then I used my sorcerer's Invisibility spell on Yeslick. He went around with his two (and on one map, three) giant skellie warriors, and cleaned up all the sirine b*****s nicely. I just wish I could think of a strategy that didn't involve having good clerics cast an evil spell.

ZanathKariashi

Silence won't work, it's an on-hit effect, not a spell. Greenstone amulet would block it..I think...I know mind blank should but that's probably too high level.

BelgarathMTH

@ZanathKariashi, uh, no. Silence is a second level cleric spell, with a nice range and a huge area of effect. It's very useful for neutralizing spellcasters of all stripes. The only caveat is that it allows a save.

Banex

Animate dead and casting silence is a way to deal with Sirens and then bombard them from afar.Incidently this bug has only come into effect since the last patch.I had a couple of mini playthroughs until the respawns were fixed.Sirens were never a problem.Now if they catch one of your party with a spell, the game's screwed for that party member.You can kiss that party member goodbye or reload a save.

ZanathKariashi

I know what silence does, but it won't stop their rigid thinking, because it's an on-hit effect from their kiss/bite/thing. It's not a spell they cast.

BelgarathMTH

@ZanathKariashi, okay, gottcha. But, a successful Silence would still allow you to attack from range. Notwithstanding, Silence is not a good way fight them unless one doesn't mind reloading over and over until dice rolls go the right way, which I do.

I still am looking for a non-evil way to beat these nigh unbeatable creatures.

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BelgarathMTH

@Shandyr, interesting. Since they attack and kill hapless adventurers on sight, I don't have much sympathy for their supposedly "neutral" alignment, nor of their "territory".

I already killed Sil on sight, with no conversation, after what she and her kind did to Ajantis, and I had no compunctions, and no remorse about doing it. I now attack sirines on sight. That's what they did to me, so they get a special place on my "naughty" list. If I were a ranger, the sirine would be at the top of my "favored enemy" list.

Thanks for the info, though. I did not know there was a quest related to these evil b.... er, women.

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BelgarathMTH

@Shandyr, I'm aware of the siren queen on werewolf island. And I actually do normally talk to her, since she's willing to talk. "The enemy of my enemy is my friend." And so, I always choose the "good" resolution of that quest.

As far as "just trying to defend their home...", I don't buy that argument as applied to an extremely powerful spell caster race who immediately "mindrapes" every hapless mortal who wanders into their territory and orders them to kill each other, or else stand there while the creatures do it themselves. Regardless of what label the game gives them, I call that Eeeeee-viiiiiiil! With a capital "E"!

EDIT: I think the sirines would get along famously with their mindraping kissing cousins, the Illithids!

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BelgarathMTH

@Shandyr, awww. Well, if you were a *male* siren, who wanted to "mindrape" me in a way that wouldn't hurt me or cause dying among my friends, I might reconsider my stance.

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BelgarathMTH

@Shandyr, First Rule. The answer is always "yes".

Sese79

I tried to kill them with Silence and Glitterdust and Web and Ranged attack, it was a mess. The "confused" state for characters hit by something lasted very long. Very long but not permanent. Their bow and poison kills every caster. After a few try I just attacked them with only melee, so it was easy. You should just don't allow them to fire their bows or cast a spell and you win.

So this is not a bug.

BelgarathMTH

@Sese79, maybe or maybe not, but, you see, I roleplay minimal reload games where death is horrible, and I don't want it happening to any of my friends. I'm sure that the sirens can be defeated by attacking them with everything you've got, and hoping that you've got one man or woman standing at the end of the horror, or else by reloading a bunch of times.

I don't find either of those a satisfactory solution. I actually care about my friends dying.

Also, that's not really why I started the thread. The Rigid Thinking of the hated sirens used to wear off normally. In BG:EE, it doesn't. Or at least, from anything I can see in the actions window, it doesn't.

I'm still not sure it's really a bug, though. I may have just encountered the dreaded, overwhelming power of the sirens to make a party defenseless, in a new way.

However, I'm still interested in finding out whether there's a bug here. I guess I would have to start a vanilla gog.com game and mess around a bit with the sirens to try to duplicate the experience I had.

I don't guess this is really a priority. People like me who care about their friends living and dying, and who don't reload unless there is a diceroll fluke or a suspected bug, will have problems with these powerful, evil creatures as always. People who don't care who dies, or who don't care how many times they have to reload, will just attack willy-nilly and reload as many times as they need, and will not understand why this potential bug is important to me.

Avenger_teambg

I usually just send in Minsc in berserk state, and heal him from far.

JTM

Usually the first attack from the Sirens is a "Dire Charm". A bug I've noticed, is that if Dorn gets charmed and then eventually we clear the state...magically or from time... he will continue to attack my party under regular AI. Changing his script didn't seem to have any effect... I had to reload and make sure he didn't get charmed to get around this...