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Proficiency for swords on a dual class cleric

Ok guys I haven't found any threads about this so I'm just gonna post one myself. I'm a long time BG player but this thing just gave me a mind fuck. I dual classed a mage before and there was never a problem with the weapon proficiencies but now that I have a kick ass dual class cleric and I regained the levels I figure out I can't use long swords. It took me quite a while to regain the levels since it was on lvl7 that I dualed him so this is what I'm asking: is there any way I can "hack" or how should I put it rearrange my proficiencies?

Comments

  • RiolathelRiolathel Member Posts: 330
    why not just use blunt weapons?

    It clearly states whenever you dual-mutli that you gain the abilitiy of the other class but are restricted to weapons of the cleric ethos..

    A cleric using swords would completly ruin the point of paladins and fighters... :o
  • ChowChow Member Posts: 1,192
    Having some fighter levels may give you the skill to wield swords and such things, but your gods will still frown upon it so no you can't.

    Switch to Tempus. He's okay with that stuff.
  • MERLANCEMERLANCE Member Posts: 421
    When in doubt... use shadowkeeper to fix your proficiencies. There should be a sticky around here on how to get it to work.

    Doesnt Anomen have Spear proficiency that he cant use or something in BG2?
  • TedahsonsonsonTedahsonsonson Member Posts: 2
    ok thanks. Yes I will use blunt weapons, I just want to change it back to that prof since I'm already 90% game complete and with a useless proficiency :D
  • QuartzQuartz Member Posts: 3,853
    @MERLANCE I believe you're thinking of Safana in BG1. She had a Spear prof as a Thief. Yeahhh, that was special.
  • SilySily Member Posts: 91
    edited December 2012
    This is the thing what I dislike most about BG-series (AD&D rules), it actually reminds me of this boardgame what my bro made me play as a kiddo. Hero Quest it was called, and there were four characters to pick from, one of them being a Wizard.

    Now, the game had equipment cards, from chainmail to shields and swords, and 95% of items said "Wizard can't use -item's name-", which has started it as a joke among us RPG players who have ever seen Hero Quest.

    In 3.5e gods in Forgotten Realms are suddenly fine with you using all sorts of weapons, the only thing what you need is the training for one to be able to use it to any effect. Gods even have favoured weapons which you can gain bonus to by picking certain Domains, which are restricted by the deity you worship.

    Remember - Wizard is not allowed to use a Spear! But he can use a -stick-! Mail? No. Shield? No! Bracers and cloak? Oh yes! Crossbow? Nope.

    I do understand and approve of "weapon ethos" from an roleplaying perspective and support characters who will not give up some of their equipment/equip some items, but restricting a player made Warpriest (what I like to play my clerics as) to Blunt only is kind of too much.

    In 1996 a book: http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Faiths_&_Avatars came out. If I'm right, this book states that clerics of Talos often use spears, since it is the "favoured weapon of their deity". BG1 came out in 98'. Y u no give me spears?
  • ChowChow Member Posts: 1,192
    Gods can allow different weapons in 2e as well. Just not in BG.
  • CheesebellyCheesebelly Member Posts: 1,727
    I actually think also Annoyman had some sort of useless proficiency. (then again, invalid proficiency points cases aren't a small problem, with Coran having *** in bows, Haer'dalis ** in short swords, etc...)
    Safana though beats all of them... possibly along the most useless points spent in history. Making her sub-par really...
  • SilySily Member Posts: 91
    @Chow
    That's what I figured out. But thank you for clarifying. Never played AD&D really, and never actually read the p&p rules for it (only BG-related ones.)
  • DjimmyDjimmy Member Posts: 749
    Maybe shadowkeeper will help for rearranging your proficiencies. I suggest you move on to flails and hammers if you plan to play BG2 with the same character.
  • IchigoRXCIchigoRXC Member Posts: 1,001
    Different gods view certain weapons in a different light, thus allowing them access to them in the PnP game, This however is not the case for BG, though I would love it if it was. I am pretty sure Cyric's favoured weapon is a longsword, and thus if I remember correctly Clerics of Cyric were allowed longswords as a weapon.
  • LemernisLemernis Member, Moderator Posts: 4,318
    edited December 2012

    Safana though beats all of them... possibly along the most useless points spent in history. Making her sub-par really...

    Well, even back when she had short sword +, missiles +, and spear + it wasn't terrible. Thieves can't dump-stat anyway, and level fast, so they end up with profs in nearly everything. If you had her backstabbing with a short sword, hurling darts (especially darts of stunning), and holding off meleers with a spear she was actually pretty respectable weapons profs-wise.

    On a related subject, is it just my imagination, or do the weapons with a long reach such as spear, halberd, and quarterstaff actually seem to confer some sort advantage in their wielder not getting hit as often by enemy meleers using weapons with a shorter reach? I'm sometimes amazed at how seldom mages get hit when they melee with a stave... (Never mind, I'll raise this topic in a separate thread.)

    Anyway, now in BG:EE Safana has the following profs and weapons:

    scimitar/wakizashi/ninjato +
    darts +

    and she comes equipped with a ninjato.

    Post edited by Lemernis on
  • ZanathKariashiZanathKariashi Member Posts: 2,869
    edited December 2012
    Mythos priests in 2nd edition have looser equipment restrictions, but give up some of their casting spheres for it (they only get the sphere's their god is proficient in). Plain clerics get a very broad access to spheres (except minor elemental, and no nature related spheres), but are more restricted in what they can use.

    And yes, 2hd weapons have roughly a character's length of extra range, so with very low weapon speeds you can beat anenemy up before they can get within range to retaliate, or attack them from behind another character, or through some objects. Though only staves have a low enough speed to really abuse this.

    3rd edition loosen things more, since you could learn other weapons by buying them with feats or taking other classes. Only druids were still penalized for using disallowed weapons (the deities favored weapon was always allowed though) (they lose all their abilities for 24 hours if they use disallowed equipment), with exception to druids of Melikki, who could use any weapons allowed to rangers without penalty.

    And one thing that most games leave out is that you can in fact use any weapon unless you're magically prevented from doing so. You're just unable to become proficient and take a hefty penalty in their use (or in case of spell casters, lose of abilities and features). (in 2nd edition, you suffered a double penalty for wielding a weapon your class can't normally use (so a single class mage trying to use a sword would have a 12 thac0 penalty)
  • AndrasteAndraste Member Posts: 78
    I always found it pretty funny that the gods of D&D CRPGs - including evil ones like Talos - were against their clergy using pointed and slashing weapons but just fine with warhammers and maces. It's not like Irenicus is somehow less dead after you cave his head in with the Flail of the Ages.

    If the prohibition is specifically about shedding blood, a heavy blunt weapon is still going to break the skin if you hit someone hard enough with it.
  • ChowChow Member Posts: 1,192

    Mythos priests in 2nd edition have looser equipment restrictions, but give up some of their casting spheres for it (they only get the sphere's their god is proficient in). Plain clerics get a very broad access to spheres (except minor elemental, and no nature related spheres), but are more restricted in what they can use.

    Technically, there should be no plain clerics at all: all clerics had gods, and all gods had spheres and restrictions. It's just that not all DMs enforced this.
  • ZanathKariashiZanathKariashi Member Posts: 2,869
    edited December 2012
    Technically clerics of Talos CAN wield spears. The kit just doesn't implement it. (I think divine remix does though, if they have a BG:EE compatible version).

    I dunno...even in 2nd edition you could worship an ideal (good, law, chaos, evil), rather then a singular god, which is what a generic cleric is. All Clerics who identify as a cleric of {God} are mythos priests.
  • ChowChow Member Posts: 1,192

    I dunno...even in 2nd edition you could worship an ideal (good, law, chaos, evil), rather then a singular god, which is what a generic cleric is. All Clerics who identify as a cleric of {God} are mythos priests.

    Well, even then the DM was supposed to check what spheres the priest could use and what were unavailable. If he could just cast all of them, it'd be kind of unfair.
  • BelgarathMTHBelgarathMTH Member Posts: 5,653
    There is a mod called "Ashes of Embers" that removes weapon restrictions for clerics. I have no idea if it works with BG:EE, though.
  • SCARY_WIZARDSCARY_WIZARD Member Posts: 1,438
    Sily said:

    This is the thing what I dislike most about BG-series (AD&D rules), it actually reminds me of this boardgame what my bro made me play as a kiddo. Hero Quest it was called, and there were four characters to pick from, one of them being a Wizard.

    Now, the game had equipment cards, from chainmail to shields and swords, and 95% of items said "Wizard can't use -item's name-", which has started it as a joke among us RPG players who have ever seen Hero Quest.

    In 3.5e gods in Forgotten Realms are suddenly fine with you using all sorts of weapons, the only thing what you need is the training for one to be able to use it to any effect. Gods even have favoured weapons which you can gain bonus to by picking certain Domains, which are restricted by the deity you worship.

    Remember - Wizard is not allowed to use a Spear! But he can use a -stick-! Mail? No. Shield? No! Bracers and cloak? Oh yes! Crossbow? Nope.

    I do understand and approve of "weapon ethos" from an roleplaying perspective and support characters who will not give up some of their equipment/equip some items, but restricting a player made Warpriest (what I like to play my clerics as) to Blunt only is kind of too much.

    In 1996 a book: http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Faiths_&_Avatars came out. If I'm right, this book states that clerics of Talos often use spears, since it is the "favoured weapon of their deity". BG1 came out in 98'. Y u no give me spears?

    Yeah, I never got that, either.
    In AD&D, it was fine to use edged or pointed weapons if you were a dual or multi-classed Cleric and your other class permitted the use of said weapons.
    In AD&D2E, you couldn't unless you were "kitted".
    In 3rd Edition and v3.5...yeah.
    This is why I like Level 1 NPCs, but don't even get me started on multi-classed arcane spellcasters all of a sudden not being able to cast in anything but elven chainmail. :makesmegrumpy:
  • BugratBugrat Member Posts: 118
    @Sily "Liked" for bringing up Hero Quest. That game was sweet.
  • LaughingManLaughingMan Member Posts: 65
    I just released a mod with a component that removed the hard restriction against clerics wielding edged weapons:

    http://www.shsforums.net/files/file/1023-cleric-class-kit-scion-of-murder/

    If you'd prefer to have a cleric dual/multi-class that can wield swords or whatever. You can opt to just install that component and ignore the kit, if you like.
  • moopymoopy Member Posts: 938
    What is wrong with flails, hammers or maces. Plenty of awesome ones.
  • bigdogchrisbigdogchris Member Posts: 1,336
    edited December 2012
    Blunt weapons have the advantage that armors do not provide bonus vs them and in some cases armor has a penalty to AC vs blunt.
  • lunarlunar Member Posts: 3,460

    Blunt weapons have the advantage that armors do not provide bonus vs them and in some cases armor has a penalty to AC vs blunt.

    Also blunt weapons are generally slower and heavier than bladed ones. Requiring greater strength to wield and have a bigger speed factor (which is bad) So they are inferior to bladed ones if you want a quick, speedy, fast kill.

  • UnknownQuantityUnknownQuantity Member Posts: 242
    Sily said:

    This is the thing what I dislike most about BG-series (AD&D rules), it actually reminds me of this boardgame what my bro made me play as a kiddo. Hero Quest it was called, and there were four characters to pick from, one of them being a Wizard.

    Now, the game had equipment cards, from chainmail to shields and swords, and 95% of items said "Wizard can't use -item's name-", which has started it as a joke among us RPG players who have ever seen Hero Quest.

    In 3.5e gods in Forgotten Realms are suddenly fine with you using all sorts of weapons, the only thing what you need is the training for one to be able to use it to any effect. Gods even have favoured weapons which you can gain bonus to by picking certain Domains, which are restricted by the deity you worship.

    Remember - Wizard is not allowed to use a Spear! But he can use a -stick-! Mail? No. Shield? No! Bracers and cloak? Oh yes! Crossbow? Nope.

    I do understand and approve of "weapon ethos" from an roleplaying perspective and support characters who will not give up some of their equipment/equip some items, but restricting a player made Warpriest (what I like to play my clerics as) to Blunt only is kind of too much.

    In 1996 a book: http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Faiths_&_Avatars came out. If I'm right, this book states that clerics of Talos often use spears, since it is the "favoured weapon of their deity". BG1 came out in 98'. Y u no give me spears?

    I believe the intention was to make each class unique in some way. Wizards usually wear robes and use staves. Clerics wear plate and use blunt weapons. Rogues wear leather armor. Etc. I noticed that in 3rd edition things get a little bland since you can do whatever you want. It almost seems you might as well get rid of classes all together.
  • MilochMiloch Member Posts: 863

    This is why I like Level 1 NPCs...

    Good someone mentioned it so I don't have to again. :D I specifically added an option for this, at least for multi or dualed cleric/rangers to be able to use swords and/or bows, which I think is totally in-character. But there was already a more general option to flex the rules for multi/dual cleric weapons. In the style of Ashes of Embers but not quite the same principle.
  • DazzuDazzu Member Posts: 950
    Quartz said:

    @MERLANCE I believe you're thinking of Safana in BG1. She had a Spear prof as a Thief. Yeahhh, that was special.

    No, he means that Anomen tells a story about how he used a Spear against I believe a Wyvern. It's a story only weapon proficiency.
  • ReadingRamboReadingRambo Member Posts: 598
    Blunt weapons don't cause any blood loss. Gods are squeamish like that. They prefer you smash in a persons skull with a warhammer instead. Cuz no blood (sarcasm).
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