I was fully expecting this type of criticism. BG's UI is full of keyboard and mouse idioms like discovering "actionable" spots through hovering, tooltips, right-clicking, etc. This UI would have required a true redesign to make it fit for touch screens, streamlining many actions like inventory management, looting, selecting spells, but instead Overhaul just made a few buttons bigger and put a "tooltip" button on the main screen. Now they reap what they've sown.
Short of making a button you don't have to hold but can toggle on and off that insta shows all lootable items in blue and a separate button to toggle on and off that keeps all tooltips open (perhaps 3 tiers, character tooltip, enemy tooltips, misc tooltips, or any combination of the 3)
And then another toggle on/off option that makes loot screen instantly open when you get within 2 feet of the loot instead of having to click it.
Short of those features I'm not sure how much easier they could have made it.
I'm not suggesting they couldn't have done a better job and can update it in the future so that it is better, but I do believe at least some of the reviewers are reviewing it with the mindset of it being AS user friendly as the PC, and it will never be as user friendly as a mouse + keyboard.
Can they make it more user friendly. Yes. Can they make it AS user friendly as the PC. No.
Some PC game ports can be made to be as user friendly, I don't believe that this is one of those games.
Idea: Change both versions of the game to instantly loot gold, and to automatically highlight corpses that have blue gear on them. That would cut down on a lot of the need to click corpses over and over again which I'm sure is terrible on the touch screen.
I'm not all that surprised either. Playing BG on a pad always seemed to me like eating a fancy, perfectly made three-course dinner out of a doggy bag in the backseat of a moving car with three heavy relatives next to you and no elbow room. It'll still fill your belly, but the experience just isn't as pleasurable.
I disagree with almost every review I read on IGN. Seriously, not just trying to disagree with them but I always do. My favorite games are parser interface kings quest games and mario though, so I may not be main stream.
On another note to enhance not only the iPad version, but the PC one as well...
Now a lot of people are going to dislike this idea as it deals with making inventory management easier, and personally I like inventory management but I understand I am in the minority here.
What if in the starting quests in candlekeep you unlocked a gem bag, a scroll case, and a potion bag, but they aren't items like they currently are. They exist as separate inventories that you can open up, and all gems from defeated enemies automatically go in the gem bag, all potions in the potion bag, all scrolls in the scroll case, and just give you a message that ITEMX has been deposited in GEM BAG. Also make them have infinite capacity.
Also as I said earlier make gold auto loot.
I realize that isn't going to get rid of most of the issues with a touchscreen and attracting a newer audience, but that seems like a real easy non game breaking way to make inventory management and looting less of a pain.
@marfig It's called "getting money" bud. You know why zero companies are PC elitists? Because there's very little money involved. Companies need money to run. Crazy, right? Starting to wonder how many times I have to say this. It's seriously that simple.
Anyway I played the iPad version. It was slightly wonky but it worked pretty decently IMO.
How did they justify an 8 on a game that scored 90+% when it was released?
Game released today should be evaluated against todays standards. If its not, whats the point of doing a new review when you can just read the old one?
Maybe I'm crazy, but even if the controls suck, and I'm all for them improving them over time...
I find the fact that this game can even exist on an ipad to be worth an 11/10
Because by all rights this shouldn't have gotten to exist on an ipad
They took the predecessor of the best game ever created and put it on an ipad, and they are promising to take the best game ever created and put it on an ipad. Where as without them it would have never happened, so maybe that is why I'm more forgiving with what I consider to be minor oversights that can easily be corrected over time.
I find the fact that this game can even exist on an ipad to be worth an 11/10 [...] They took the predecessor of the best game ever created and put it on an ipad, and they are promising to take the best game ever created and put it on an ipad.
Are you sure you don't work for IGN? Your argumentation for a 11/10 score would help IGN increase even more their already blanket and baseless reviews.
@marfig It's called "getting money" bud. You know why zero companies are PC elitists? Because there's very little money involved. Companies need money to run. Crazy, right? Starting to wonder how many times I have to say this. It's seriously that simple.
Anyway I played the iPad version. It was slightly wonky but it worked pretty decently IMO.
I essentially agree with you of course. But that won't deny my wishful thinking that it could be better. It's already bad enough the idiosyncrasies of PC development in the face of so many different setups, to then go around and complicate it even further by adding other platforms, in the end diluting the ability of a small team of developers to end up with a superior quality product.
We may want to defend the ability of a company to make money. But I'm not Overhaul's employee. As much as I like them, I will first and foremost defend my consumer interests.
marfig I agree except that my number one consumer interest is in getting BG2, and maybe IWD and other classics on the iPad. The game plays fine, only slight issues as it stands now. And a new patch is in the pipeline that should help with even those. So I'm far more interested in singing Overhaul's praises than I am in any minor nitpicks.
Very true, @atcDave. We are unfortunately limited by the fact we could risk not get BG2EE. Which would indeed be terrible.
I won't even consider BG3 because quite frankly I doubt Overhaul's ability to come up with a game that could sit alongside these two classics. I'm not being a jerk. Really, it's just practical thinking. I don't see Overhaul with the capacity to produce an epic (meaning, a long narrative title). The man and brain power involved will most probably be well outside Overhaul's budget.
I'm fine with no BG3. But no BG2EE would be a disaster.
I find the fact that this game can even exist on an ipad to be worth an 11/10 [...] They took the predecessor of the best game ever created and put it on an ipad, and they are promising to take the best game ever created and put it on an ipad.
Are you sure you don't work for IGN? Your argumentation for a 11/10 score would help IGN increase even more their already blanket and baseless reviews.
Well BG2 is the greatest gave ever created, and they took that engine, and put it on an iPad. So... you are suggesting that the predecessor of the best game in the world on the engine of that game on a tablet isn't worth an 11/10?
BG1 on BG2 engine 10/10 +1 for putting the game on a device that should never have been able to have it, which makes it more accessible for people on the go.
Anyhow on a more serious note, ever hear of the word "hyperbole"?
I would love to eventually see a "BG3"; but I don't expect, or even want anything as massive and revolutionary as BG2 was in its time. What I would hope for, if it ever happens, is a game like BG1 or IWD with a new story, some new settings, monsters and magic items; but retaining the basic game engine and rules set. Almost like an uber expansion except with an all new party. If BG1 and BG2 do well for Overhaul, and arrangements can be made with WotC and other interested parties, I think that's a possible goal.
A BG3 that plays and feels like BG2, maintaining the infinity engine, producing some new but similar art... New story, different characters... I'd definitely sign up for that @actDave.
I am shocked about the opinions, i read in this Thread... When i heard, that Overhaul Games will release bg for the iPad i was amazed! Who cares for a Version on the PC, when you can play bg on the go, while your familiy/gf is watching tv (i'm playing with consoles at home) or while you're on the toilet! and i could always buy a bg-copy for the pc for about 10 bucks at the store... when i'm at home, i can play more improved games on my consoles or on a desktop. don't get me wrong. bg is the greatest roleplaying-saga of all time and i'm looking forward to a bg3 and i truly hope for more round-based gameplay from above with a bunch of adventurers. but to be honest, these times are over in modern 3d gaming. maybe the fanbase in this forum would appreciate that, but you can't sell a AAA-title with that stuff...
but back to topic: yes, the game on the ipad has some control-issues. but these issues are soon getting fixed. and maybe at this moment new gamers maybe wouldn't find all the hidden areas on the iPad-build, but as i remeber it take me several playthroughs to find these areas on the pc-version of the game in 1998! this game is oldschool and difficult and not user-friendly! and it was so damn rewarding, when you finally found these areas and after maybe a real hard and frustrating fight get some real nice magical items!
I'm sure with the upcoming patches the iPad-build will get even more enjoyable and accessible in the future and the review is far too harsh! the controls are not gamebreaking or even frustrating. at some points you have to zoom in and out to find the doors but who cares?! i've got enough time on my way to work!
A BG3 that plays and feels like BG2, maintaining the infinity engine, producing some new but similar art... New story, different characters... I'd definitely sign up for that @actDave.
I'm not arguing the low mark IGN gave, I'm arguing the super corruption that IGN is all about. They get *paid* for giving out good reviews. And those reviews many times are blatant lies. Whether or not they made valid criticism on BGEE doesn't matter - they lost credibility a long time ago.
If so I subscribed to you. I think your LPs r great. :-)
People aren't disputing the review as such, but more the fact that IGN automatically rate down games that aren't made by the big companies because they aren't by the big companies. Don't believe me?
Go look at the reviews for FTL. An awesome indie game. Most gaming sites are giving it fairly high ratings 8/9 out of 10. And IGN was a 6.5 or 7 I think. And check their back catalogue of reviews. They consistently give indie games 2 points less than other review sites give the same games, and consitently give big budget games review scores higher than the other sites. What game was it they gave 11 out of 10 to again?
It doesn't matter if they have a legitimate gripe with BGEE's iPad UI. The fact that they rated it so low, when they let similar problems with big budget games slide, only shows their hypocracy and renders their review irrelevant.
If it aint big budget. If it ain't flash. If it isn't "cool" then they take great delight in tearing it down.
The only thing that kinda flies in the face of the IGN bashing is their review of MoH Warfighter. That thing is all flash and is from a big publisher, yet it got an awful score. I honestly don't even look at the scores anymore, I read the actual words in the review and form my own opinion. It seems like the iPad is very similar to the PC version, except that there are issues w/ the controls right now.
If IGN would of done the review after Smart Radius is put in, I believe the review would be much different.
That's the problem, people that haven't bought the app are going to read this review (and others) that mention the quirks and that the controls may be difficult to use. Potential buyers are going to think, "Aw, too bad, had high hopes for this" and move on. It's too bad quirks like difficulty picking up things weren't addressed prior to release. I'm guessing the folks testing it internally noticed the issue but realized the workarounds, like zooming in, to make it a bit easier. However, they needed to consider how it would be perceived by a brand new user, and realize that it should of been fixed prior to release.
I can't really fault IGN for the other issues they raised. They are valid criticisms. Although in my own opinion they are pretty minor and I love the fact that I can play BG1:EE on my iPad.
I'm just frustrated by this because after reading Trent's comments on Twitter about BG not being a huge success on the iOS AppStore. I worry about the possibility of BG2:EE not coming to the iPad. If only the issues had been addressed prior to release, the reviews would of been better and possibly better sales.
I want to conclude in saying that I'm loving the iPad version of the game. I'm doing what I can to spread the word on this release, so far $100+ worth of sales have come from me telling people about this game, who had no idea it was out. Fingers crossed for BG2:EE!
You've got people like me who aren't huge fans of apple products but would love to get this on an android.
I travel light when I travel, like when I go home for Christmas, but if I could slip an android tablet in my wife's purse and pull that out over Christmas I would love it.
And if they do put BG2:EE on the iPad / Android I would expect that to be a bigger success, just because I believe more people are going to get on board once they can get BG1:EE & BG2:EE as a lot of people mostly, or only, played BG2.
Then again, like you, I never thought the problems were that big of a deal from what I saw of it, sure it could take a little longer to do basic actions but you could zoom in etc... and the extra time and annoyance was completely offset by the fact that you could use it on a tablet, I also figured they would very quickly make the interface better, but then again I'm not a whiny little girl so I can wait < 1 month for some UI enhancements.
I think people are way to quick to judge on release and believe that the release shouldn't have occurred until it was 100% ready, which I really disagree with.
Releasing it when it isn't 100% polished gives it to the user quicker, and gives the people using it a chance to suggest ideas to enhance it where as beta testers would be a small subset of potential users.
Gamers were waaaaaaaaaaaay more forgiving and weren't whiny little girls in the 90s though.
I agree, the main selling point to me was I can bring along the iPad and play this game anywhere quickly and easily. I loved the BG series when I played them 10 years ago and I'm really enjoying revisiting BG1 now.
My first impression when playing the iPad version for the first time was that it was a pain to deal with the interface and tapping on the right things. This was evident even on the tutorial. One of the first things you do is use Imoen to disable a trap. It took a few tries and apparently I could only approach the trap from one direction.
After finishing the tutorial and starting the actual game I got used to it. By the time I found Xzar and Montoran I found it to be less of a hassle. It made me think that the reviewer didn't play it very long, maybe an hour at most. I've probably played 4 or 5 hours now and the only annoyance I have is some effects like Entangle slowing the game down to a crawl. It's not just Entangle BTW, I encountered some Slimes and it slowed down my game too.
Short story long, my point about them catching some of these issues before release was that these reviewers are only going to review the first version you put out. You really need glowing reviews from the start in order to dominate the App Store charts. You want people to say "THIS is the game you need to get for the iPad".
Comments
As for people dismissing the review because it's IGN... have you read user reviews on this site? You'll see the exact same complaints about the UI as well: http://forum.baldursgate.com/discussion/10904/post-your-bgee-ipad-reviews/p1 But the application can be adapted to be as user-friendly on a touch screen; this is what every other iPad port of a PC or console game does.
Short of making a button you don't have to hold but can toggle on and off that insta shows all lootable items in blue and a separate button to toggle on and off that keeps all tooltips open (perhaps 3 tiers, character tooltip, enemy tooltips, misc tooltips, or any combination of the 3)
And then another toggle on/off option that makes loot screen instantly open when you get within 2 feet of the loot instead of having to click it.
Short of those features I'm not sure how much easier they could have made it.
I'm not suggesting they couldn't have done a better job and can update it in the future so that it is better, but I do believe at least some of the reviewers are reviewing it with the mindset of it being AS user friendly as the PC, and it will never be as user friendly as a mouse + keyboard.
Can they make it more user friendly. Yes.
Can they make it AS user friendly as the PC. No.
Some PC game ports can be made to be as user friendly, I don't believe that this is one of those games.
Idea:
Change both versions of the game to instantly loot gold, and to automatically highlight corpses that have blue gear on them. That would cut down on a lot of the need to click corpses over and over again which I'm sure is terrible on the touch screen.
And now reviews are LOOK AT THE SHINY
YAY SPECIAL VIDEO EFFECT ZOMG
They told the truth, i would NEVER enter some places on the ipad version if i did not already KNEW they were there.
But i think they were a little harsh, a 6.0 grade does not express how great the game is.
I disagree with almost every review I read on IGN. Seriously, not just trying to disagree with them but I always do. My favorite games are parser interface kings quest games and mario though, so I may not be main stream.
On another note to enhance not only the iPad version, but the PC one as well...
Now a lot of people are going to dislike this idea as it deals with making inventory management easier, and personally I like inventory management but I understand I am in the minority here.
What if in the starting quests in candlekeep you unlocked a gem bag, a scroll case, and a potion bag, but they aren't items like they currently are. They exist as separate inventories that you can open up, and all gems from defeated enemies automatically go in the gem bag, all potions in the potion bag, all scrolls in the scroll case, and just give you a message that ITEMX has been deposited in GEM BAG. Also make them have infinite capacity.
Also as I said earlier make gold auto loot.
I realize that isn't going to get rid of most of the issues with a touchscreen and attracting a newer audience, but that seems like a real easy non game breaking way to make inventory management and looting less of a pain.
Anyway I played the iPad version. It was slightly wonky but it worked pretty decently IMO.
Overhaul released the game really buggy. They have fixed many of them, but reviewers can't rely on developers fixing the bugs these days when many don't. There is still a large number of bugs (see list of current bugs here http://forum.baldursgate.com/discussion/11407/read-before-posting-list-of-bugs-and-issues-that-already-have-been-reported/p1 )
If the game would have been released without such a large amount of bugs and an actually well done touch interface it would have scored much higher.
I find the fact that this game can even exist on an ipad to be worth an 11/10
Because by all rights this shouldn't have gotten to exist on an ipad
They took the predecessor of the best game ever created and put it on an ipad, and they are promising to take the best game ever created and put it on an ipad. Where as without them it would have never happened, so maybe that is why I'm more forgiving with what I consider to be minor oversights that can easily be corrected over time.
Anyone who said they agree with IGN reviews or defended their rating on this game or any others... opinions on all things gaming are null and void.
We may want to defend the ability of a company to make money. But I'm not Overhaul's employee. As much as I like them, I will first and foremost defend my consumer interests.
The game plays fine, only slight issues as it stands now. And a new patch is in the pipeline that should help with even those.
So I'm far more interested in singing Overhaul's praises than I am in any minor nitpicks.
The game looks beautiful and play is fun.
I won't even consider BG3 because quite frankly I doubt Overhaul's ability to come up with a game that could sit alongside these two classics. I'm not being a jerk. Really, it's just practical thinking. I don't see Overhaul with the capacity to produce an epic (meaning, a long narrative title). The man and brain power involved will most probably be well outside Overhaul's budget.
I'm fine with no BG3. But no BG2EE would be a disaster.
BG1 on BG2 engine 10/10
+1 for putting the game on a device that should never have been able to have it, which makes it more accessible for people on the go.
Anyhow on a more serious note, ever hear of the word "hyperbole"?
Here:
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/hyperbole
When i heard, that Overhaul Games will release bg for the iPad i was amazed! Who cares for a Version on the PC, when you can play bg on the go, while your familiy/gf is watching tv (i'm playing with consoles at home) or while you're on the toilet!
and i could always buy a bg-copy for the pc for about 10 bucks at the store...
when i'm at home, i can play more improved games on my consoles or on a desktop. don't get me wrong. bg is the greatest roleplaying-saga of all time and i'm looking forward to a bg3 and i truly hope for more round-based gameplay from above with a bunch of adventurers. but to be honest, these times are over in modern 3d gaming. maybe the fanbase in this forum would appreciate that, but you can't sell a AAA-title with that stuff...
but back to topic: yes, the game on the ipad has some control-issues. but these issues are soon getting fixed. and maybe at this moment new gamers maybe wouldn't find all the hidden areas on the iPad-build, but as i remeber it take me several playthroughs to find these areas on the pc-version of the game in 1998! this game is oldschool and difficult and not user-friendly! and it was so damn rewarding, when you finally found these areas and after maybe a real hard and frustrating fight get some real nice magical items!
I'm sure with the upcoming patches the iPad-build will get even more enjoyable and accessible in the future and the review is far too harsh! the controls are not gamebreaking or even frustrating. at some points you have to zoom in and out to find the doors but who cares?! i've got enough time on my way to work!
As I said.
IGN don't like shit if it aint flashy bright lights stuff.
Dragon Age 2 and its AWESOME BUTTON was made for them.
@Zeckul
Are you the Youtube Let's Player?
If so I subscribed to you. I think your LPs r great. :-)
People aren't disputing the review as such, but more the fact that IGN automatically rate down games that aren't made by the big companies because they aren't by the big companies.
Don't believe me?
Go look at the reviews for FTL. An awesome indie game. Most gaming sites are giving it fairly high ratings 8/9 out of 10. And IGN was a 6.5 or 7 I think.
And check their back catalogue of reviews. They consistently give indie games 2 points less than other review sites give the same games, and consitently give big budget games review scores higher than the other sites. What game was it they gave 11 out of 10 to again?
It doesn't matter if they have a legitimate gripe with BGEE's iPad UI. The fact that they rated it so low, when they let similar problems with big budget games slide, only shows their hypocracy and renders their review irrelevant.
If it aint big budget. If it ain't flash. If it isn't "cool" then they take great delight in tearing it down.
That's all I needed to know
I can't really fault IGN for the other issues they raised. They are valid criticisms. Although in my own opinion they are pretty minor and I love the fact that I can play BG1:EE on my iPad.
I'm just frustrated by this because after reading Trent's comments on Twitter about BG not being a huge success on the iOS AppStore. I worry about the possibility of BG2:EE not coming to the iPad. If only the issues had been addressed prior to release, the reviews would of been better and possibly better sales.
I want to conclude in saying that I'm loving the iPad version of the game. I'm doing what I can to spread the word on this release, so far $100+ worth of sales have come from me telling people about this game, who had no idea it was out. Fingers crossed for BG2:EE!
You've got people like me who aren't huge fans of apple products but would love to get this on an android.
I travel light when I travel, like when I go home for Christmas, but if I could slip an android tablet in my wife's purse and pull that out over Christmas I would love it.
And if they do put BG2:EE on the iPad / Android I would expect that to be a bigger success, just because I believe more people are going to get on board once they can get BG1:EE & BG2:EE as a lot of people mostly, or only, played BG2.
Then again, like you, I never thought the problems were that big of a deal from what I saw of it, sure it could take a little longer to do basic actions but you could zoom in etc... and the extra time and annoyance was completely offset by the fact that you could use it on a tablet, I also figured they would very quickly make the interface better, but then again I'm not a whiny little girl so I can wait < 1 month for some UI enhancements.
I think people are way to quick to judge on release and believe that the release shouldn't have occurred until it was 100% ready, which I really disagree with.
Releasing it when it isn't 100% polished gives it to the user quicker, and gives the people using it a chance to suggest ideas to enhance it where as beta testers would be a small subset of potential users.
Gamers were waaaaaaaaaaaay more forgiving and weren't whiny little girls in the 90s though.
I agree, the main selling point to me was I can bring along the iPad and play this game anywhere quickly and easily. I loved the BG series when I played them 10 years ago and I'm really enjoying revisiting BG1 now.
My first impression when playing the iPad version for the first time was that it was a pain to deal with the interface and tapping on the right things. This was evident even on the tutorial. One of the first things you do is use Imoen to disable a trap. It took a few tries and apparently I could only approach the trap from one direction.
After finishing the tutorial and starting the actual game I got used to it. By the time I found Xzar and Montoran I found it to be less of a hassle. It made me think that the reviewer didn't play it very long, maybe an hour at most. I've probably played 4 or 5 hours now and the only annoyance I have is some effects like Entangle slowing the game down to a crawl. It's not just Entangle BTW, I encountered some Slimes and it slowed down my game too.
Short story long, my point about them catching some of these issues before release was that these reviewers are only going to review the first version you put out. You really need glowing reviews from the start in order to dominate the App Store charts. You want people to say "THIS is the game you need to get for the iPad".