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Ultimate Backstabber Showdown!

TressetTresset Member, Moderator Posts: 8,268
edited December 2012 in Archive (General Discussion)
Which class do you think is the best at backstabbing? Please include long term thinking in your vote. (i.e. into the high levels of BG2 as well as the low levels of BG1) Edit: I seem unable to change the poll and also seem to have forgotten about dual class features. If your fave is not on the list then vote for the closest thing to it (dual Kensai/thief would go to fighter thief for example) and provide explanation. Another Edit: Perhaps I stated my question wrong originally. What I am really looking for is the all around best class for combat that happens to be a backstabber and likes to use backstabbing to their advantage. I am not really looking for some fancy dual class that can set themself up with a ton of buffs to do one single ungodly backstab by the end of the series. What I really want is a practical class that can utilize a reasonably potent backstab whenever possible. Keep in mind that I want the majority of their career to have a backstab at thier disposal (which is why I didn't think of dual classes). However, for the betterment of the community, if you truly enjoy using the backstabbing feature of a fancy pants class in a serious playthrough attempt (not just to get that aforementioned one ungodly backstab) then feel free to vote for the closest thing to your class and provide explanation.

I shouldn't make this only about me...
  1. Ultimate Backstabber Showdown!86 votes
    1. Assassin. Those increased multipliers are worth the wait!
      40.70%
    2. Fighter/Thief. The original and still the best!
      47.67%
    3. Stalker. Single class warrior with a backstab?! Sign me up!
      11.63%
Post edited by Tresset on
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Comments

  • TressetTresset Member, Moderator Posts: 8,268
    I honestly don't know the answer which is why I would like to see what the community thinks.
  • moopymoopy Member Posts: 938
    Make Kensai / Thief an option so I can vote for that.
  • bigdogchrisbigdogchris Member Posts: 1,336
    edited December 2012
    I use a Fighter/Thief but will not vote as I have never played the other two.

    Based on the kit descriptions I would think Fighter/Thief overall is the best unless you made an Assassin with 18 STR.

    Stalker is still a good class as anything Thief in it is going to have a bad time if the backstab fails, at least a Stalker has a little better HP.

  • ChowChow Member Posts: 1,192
    Stalker. It levels up faster than fighter/thief while having roughly the same stealth capabilities and weapon skills. Assassin will do more damage, sure, but has more limited weapons and can't hit the broad side of the barn.
  • TressetTresset Member, Moderator Posts: 8,268
    Er, umm, @moopy Forum noob question here... How? I selected edit and it wouldn't let me edit the actual poll only my statement about it... I will make a new poll if I have to and if I do the mods can close this one... for now I'll just edit the original post in this manner...
  • moopymoopy Member Posts: 938
    @Tresset

    Hmmm.... no idea sorry. Didn't mean to ruin the poll I'm going to go ahead and vote for Fighter / Thief as a Kensai dualed thief is the best backstabber in my opinion.

    You can use kai to always make sure your backstab does maximum damage.
  • TressetTresset Member, Moderator Posts: 8,268
    edited December 2012
    @bigdogchris Wut you mean by "anything thief in it" and "bad time if backstab fails"? My fighter/theif has the best THAC0 and AC in my party (which includes minsc).
  • DarkDoggDarkDogg Member Posts: 598
    Dual class Fighter - thief is the best backstabber in the game.

    Kensai\Thief in TOB FTW
  • ryuken87ryuken87 Member Posts: 563
    Best is probably a high level assassin/cleric dual. Righteous Magic for max damage, Shapechange Scroll and x7 multiplier. Out of the options given I'd pick assassin, but if I was playing a character I'd pick the other two options every time.
  • GruloGrulo Member Posts: 109
    Assassin20/Fighter21
  • ZanathKariashiZanathKariashi Member Posts: 2,869
    Are we talking overall or just BG1? The assassin is the best by a large margin overall. Str is easily replaced by belts, and by the time you get x7 BS, you shouldn't be missing except on a 1 roll anyway (10 + 4 + 6 +2 + 4 +1, can only miss -7 on a 1, and there's only 3 enemies higher (also Drizzt, but I'm not counting him), and only one of them can be backstabbed..and it's hard to pull off without assassination). Specialization isn't multiplied, but the innate damage from the assassin (or a kensai) is, so they ultimately get 3 damage more then a non-kensai GM dual would from their proficiencies, and the Kensai/thief dual would be close to overall damage, but would allow for Kai BS's.

    Also the assassin, if dual-wielding speed weapons and IH'd can put out a ton of damage during an Time-stop trap assassination (well over 1k damage in 1 round).

    In BG1.....it would be close...a high mastery dualed F/T would be equal to the BS output of an assassin with equal str. A stalker a point or two less being 3rd.
  • EnterHaerDalisEnterHaerDalis Member Posts: 813
    I just beat the game with a Stalker, it's quite a nice kit. Natural stealth abilities are nice the only issue is his AC. He was basically on par with Rasaad in terms of AC

    But when talking pure backstab damage, Assassin would win I think. They also have poison, which works with ranged weapons.. that's one useful kit.
  • TressetTresset Member, Moderator Posts: 8,268
    Apparently this is a far more complicated question than I anticipated...
  • Oxford_GuyOxford_Guy Member Posts: 3,729
    The problem with the Assassin is the low THAC0 progression, which makes it hard to land a hit later in the series, unless seriously buffed. Both Fighter/Thief and Stalker are solid, but the former takes much longer to level-up, the Stalker also has some nice spells (more than a normal ranger), which can be helpful and fun, though you can't be evil, which is a shame! :-)


    I also vote elf for all these classes, due to the extra +1 THAC0 with *all* swords (including scimitars, katanas, short swords and even two-handed swords, though you can't backstab with those) and bows (apart from crossbows), as well as the racial bonuses to stealth.
  • moopymoopy Member Posts: 938
    a cleric/thief has the highest potential back stab
    but a kensai / thief has the highest consistent backstabs, plus you get all those nice benefits from Kensai and UAI on thiefs HLA nullifies all the kensai disadvantages
  • marfigmarfig Member Posts: 208
    Tresset said:

    Apparently this is a far more complicated question than I anticipated...

    Unfortunately it is. There's too many variations, some exotic choices that could include the use of spells, and the fact a better option may be made worse in the face of another by certain equipment restrictions.

    A rightful answer would have to include lots of testing and hard data for peer review. Instead of gut feeling, a biased opinion based on one's own limited experience, or playstyle preference.

  • ZanathKariashiZanathKariashi Member Posts: 2,869
    The assassin has no high level thac0 issues (especially considering the usual targets)...if you miss on any enemy, you rolled a one.

    The hardest time for an assassin is at the very beginning, since AC's are pretty high for a lvl 1 character and their thac0 progression hurts...but later (10+), the ACs never really improve for the vast majority of foes...very few enemies have significant AC, and the majority of those can't be backstabbed anyway.
  • MadhaxMadhax Member Posts: 1,416
    edited December 2012
    ToB Spoiler

    Sarevok dualed to Thief. Great THAC0, x5 multiplier, UAI, GM with quarterstaffs using Staff of the Ram, Deathbringer Assault. Nuff said.


    But that's setting up for one massive backstab, and isn't what you're asking. Okay, I voted for Fighter/thief multiclass. Potentially x5 backstabs by endgame, gets both fighter and thief HLAs, exceptional strength, etc. It's nice that they can focus on the more defensive fighter HLAs, and instead of whirlwind they can pick up assassination and dual-wield while imp. hasted for 7-9 APR, all backstabs.
  • TressetTresset Member, Moderator Posts: 8,268
    @marfig Well put and I agree completely. I was hoping for some feedback as to who was the best all around class in a more simple term. I will now completely change the premise of the poll.
  • Oxford_GuyOxford_Guy Member Posts: 3,729
    Grulo said:

    Assassin20/Fighter21

    That's a long time to spend in BG2 without being able to backstab and by the end many enemies are immune to backstab
  • ZanathKariashiZanathKariashi Member Posts: 2,869
    Yeah, Saemon is the king of backstabbing...despite being a swashbuckler, he backstabs more then I think I've ever seen.
  • AristilliusAristillius Member Posts: 873
    Isn't Saemon a fighter/mage?
  • revaarrevaar Member Posts: 160
    For usability throughout the whole series, Fighter/Thief Multi. Assassins are just gimped thieves until much later, and Stalkers don't even get backstab until the end of BG1.
  • moopymoopy Member Posts: 938
    @Communard
    Communard said:

    Saemon Haverian.

    This is the correct answer. Well done.
  • ZanathKariashiZanathKariashi Member Posts: 2,869
    He's a 12/14 swashbuckler dual'd mage.
  • smeagolheartsmeagolheart Member Posts: 7,964
    An assassin/kensai multiclass
  • ZanianZanian Member Posts: 332
    I'm all about the end-result.
    Assassin + UAI + Shapechange scroll = Carnage.
  • Oxford_GuyOxford_Guy Member Posts: 3,729
    edited December 2012
    revaar said:

    For usability throughout the whole series, Fighter/Thief Multi. Assassins are just gimped thieves until much later, and Stalkers don't even get backstab until the end of BG1.

    Yes they do, they start with x2 backstab, the manual is wrong, the in-game information is correct

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