NPC proficiency's make me as sad as xan

EnterHaerDalis

Wish the NPC proficiency's actually made sense and weren't just random crap when you pick them up

You basically have to get the NPC's at level 1 to prevent it....or use Shadow Keeper which is lame as hell. Just picked up Shar-Teel at level 4 and she has one point in Dagger, Crossbow, Longsword and 2 points in Two-Weapon Style...

The NPC proficiency's in Vanilla BG were so much more straight forward, you would never pick up an NPC with wild surged proficiency's. It's like the makers of BGTutu hate Sword and Shield style or something and want to shove dual wielding down your throat lol

had to get that off my chest. k feel better now

ZanathKariashi

Because S/S is a waste of points....If it gave like 10% and 20% physical DR per rank instead, sure...but the ac it gives is garbage. (That would at ** make the same DR as the DoEH, but without the extra damage potential)

SharGuidesMyHand

EnterHaerDalis said:

The NPC proficiency's in Vanilla BG were so much more straight forward, you would never pick up an NPC with wild surged proficiency's.

This was one of my biggest concerns heading into BG:EE, and also the main reason I never got into BG Tutu. The more specific weapon proficiencies used by the BG2 engine simply don't gel with the vanilla BG game.

LordRumfish

@ZanathKariashi I must respectfully disagree with your assessment of Sword and Shield style, at least for BG1. In BG1, if it has a ranged weapon, it will hit you, and it will rip you to shreds before you come near it. Kobold commandos with fire arrows, elite hobgoblins with their poisoned arrows, most types of skeletons, they are all so, so painful compared to the pitiful XP you get for dealing with them. If I can get +2/+4 AC to deal with those, I've reduced/eliminated most of the annoying damage I'll have to take in the game.

Anyway, @EnterHaerDalis I agree that the best way to deal with NPC proficiencies (and thief skill distribution...) is to get them early and train them yourself.

atcDave

Sword and shield style is perfectly viable in the 2E system. bonuses tend to be more understated than in later systems, and ever plus is more meaningful. But even so, it is generally a good idea to focus on the weapon proficiencies first, then take styles. Some of the NPC builds are quirky and not what a player would likely choose; but I always appreciate the challenge. I love the game of figuring out what works best with each character. I've had a lot of fun with builds that weren't exactly optimum.

ZanathKariashi

+2/+4 is nothing......It helps right at the beginning, when you're weak enough to die from enemies thinking hard in your direction (under lvl 4, depending on HP rolls), but after that, it's a waste of points you can never get back.

And really...there's 2 wands of fire you can get immediately to take care of all your archer killing needs for the rest of the game (or at least to tide you over till you can get the boots of avoidance, and the +3 ac vs missile belt for your front man). Or drop a sleep in the middle of them. If you're not scouting ahead, no amount of wasted points in S/S will save ya, cause the enemies will just get a string of crits or high rolls, just to annoy you.

LordRumfish

Meh. If you're not a pure fighter type, there's only so many points you can put into proficiencies anyway. We can agree to disagree though. I like having the bonus on top of the items you mentioned.

EnterHaerDalis

If you think Sword and Shield is worse than Two Weapon Style with like -4 to hit with the off hand, then your a lunatic

Or you've fallen in love with Haer Dalis and Valygar far more than I

SharGuidesMyHand

IMO, S & SS can be rather useful in BG1, where there's a lot more emphasis on ranged fighting.

In BG2, where there's a lot more emphasis on magic, S & SS isn't worth investing in IMO.

Tresset

Two weapon style always seemed fun for me in BG2. Probably because I always had trouble deciding which weapons I wanted my fighter/thief to use. In ToB he started doing a juggling act with Blackrazor, Spectral Brand, and the Answerer in the main hand (for backstabbing) and Crom Fayer and Ax of the Unyielding in the off hand. Sometimes he would even feel like making ranged attacks so he would use K'logarath and the Dwarven Thrower. So many good weapons, so few monsters and Bhaalspawn to use them all on...

EnterHaerDalis

holy shit

a kobold just 1 hitted XAN!!!!!!

I picked him up at level 4. He had 8/12 HP and a Kobold took him out with a single strike. Standard Rules. AMAAZING

Lemernis

EnterHaerDalis said:

... Just picked up Shar-Teel at level 4 and she has one point in Dagger, Crossbow, Longsword and 2 points in Two-Weapon Style...

You can see the weapons prof comparison between BG1 and BG:EE here: http://www.bgthewide.com/Pages/SharTeel.aspx (Btw, the profs featured in that link are for the lowest level at which she can join.)

Some folks like to dual-class Shar-Teel to Thief. I wonder if that's what the Beamdog devs were thinking...

It does kind of make for an interesting challenge to have her dual-wield a Long Sword and Dagger. I know there's a poison dagger in the game that's pretty potent. I'm not sure about whether any new enchanted Long Swords have been added, I'm still in chapter 5 and haven't seen any new ones yet.

With a dagger in the off-hand, does the high speed factor of the dagger significantly help Shar-Teel out in melee?

If she's dualed to Thief and backstabs with the Dagger of Venom in the offhand, the poison damage is going to continue to do it's thing as she continues her assault.

Pantalion

EnterHaerDalis said:

Just picked up Shar-Teel at level 4 and she has one point in Dagger, Crossbow, Longsword and 2 points in Two-Weapon Style...

So she fights with two weapons, holds a sword in her primary hand, a dagger in her offhand, and uses a Crossbow to fight at range?

I'm honestly not seeing the random here.

Also worth noting that with no penalty for your primary hand, Two-Weapon Style's -4 penalty is actually peanuts for a Warrior class (It basically offsets Sherry's +2 to hit from Strength and the +2 from the Dagger of Venom, meaning "only" a THAC0 of 13), even less meaningful when you include mastery. A free attack than has a greater than 50% chance of hitting is increasing both your maximum damage and the reliability of your damage, as well as making it more likely you can disrupt spellcasting.

Jaxsbudgie

I like Shar-Teel's weapon proficiency distribution, sets her apart from the other Fighter classes, gives her a bit of flair.
Her and Dorn have been in my current game from the moment I could recruit them and she has the most kills to her name by a long shot. Her character is high damage output low defence, two weapon fighting with the icy longsword and dagger of venom work well with that.

Necroblivion

I agree about Shar-Teel. The thing with fighters is that they can focus on one weapon and be really great with it or that they can prof with a lot of weapons and be more versatile.

Rhyme

The problem is, there are SO FEW characters that can take advantage of mastery (Shar Teel, Khalid, Kagain, and Coran's illegal third point in long bow), that it's almost a shame to have those weapon proficiency points spread around as thinly as they are, especially on arguably the best fighter in the game.

smeagolheart

EnterHaerDalis said:

holy shit

a kobold just 1 hitted XAN!!!!!!

I picked him up at level 4. He had 8/12 HP and a Kobold took him out with a single strike. Standard Rules. AMAAZING

He was doomed after all. He probably mentioned it.

Pantalion

If you really want to have Sherry to specialise, just get her early?

Alternatively, get her up to level 7, then dual her to Thief. Add her 2 starting thief pips into different weapons to improve her versatility (Single Weapon and some ranged weapon or something), and then level her up to Thief level 3 and then stop until she has 70,000 Exp. When you level her from there she'll instantly reactive her Fighter pips and you'll have 2 free pips to Specialise/Master Daggers or Longswords with.

Not that Mastery on your offhand is very relevant.

leddyhs

Second this. The NPCs really need some attention. Also, the number of thieves available is concerning, and the fact that so few of them can be dualed out of their thieving habits to be useful as something else.

Pecca

I usually edit proficiencies of characters I plan to take to my party with Near Infinity before I start playing. Then everything is set and I don't have to use Shadowkeeper and have proficiencies in the way I like it.