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Best Druid Kit: What are the spirit beasts? What about the werewolf?

TressetTresset Member, Moderator Posts: 8,268
edited December 2012 in Archive (General Discussion)
My experience with druids is as follows: Jaheira, Cernd. I would like this to change. I am wondering what people think is the best druid kit, especially between the totemic and the avenger.
Side note:
Insect plague is the best anti-caster spell in the game for 2 reasons: 100% spell failure and targets invisible creatures.
Post edited by Tresset on
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Comments

  • ZanathKariashiZanathKariashi Member Posts: 2,869
    They're about the same really....the avenger has better melee and offensive spellcasting, the totemic has meat shields. Overall the avenger is probably best.

    A dual or multiclass F/D is probably best of all though. But strictly just pure druid, probably an Avenger.
  • TressetTresset Member, Moderator Posts: 8,268
    ZanathKariashi said:

    the totemic has meat shields.

    Yes... those... Those are the reason I need to ask. I know nothing about their specifics. If I knew more about them I could have probably made a decision by myself after some contemplation. All I know about them currently is that, well, I heard somewhere that they were really good in BG2. I was hoping to know more before investing in something...
  • ZanathKariashiZanathKariashi Member Posts: 2,869
    edited December 2012
    They made them scale in power. At first they suck..and they slowly get better. At 10 they become immune to normal weapons, which is decently powerful, in early SoA. Though as with most summons, they're ultimately nothing more then spell fodder after the first 1/3 or so of the sequel. But on the other hand, they're spell fodder you didn't waste slots on and traded out those horrible shapeshifts for.

    If they survive long enough they can do ok damage, but only the spirit wolf hits above +1 (+2, and deals cold damage).
  • ScooterScooter Member Posts: 182
    Yes but the Avenger does get some pretty nifty shape shift forms and a few handy mage spells to boot. One of my personal favourite kits :)
  • JustariusJustarius Member Posts: 43
    I've always liked the shifter myself though I took an avenger through also. Being able to shift into a werewolf from level 1 in BGEE has made for an interesting run. Primarily a front line fighter but I can heal up post combat.
  • The_CheesemanThe_Cheeseman Member Posts: 175
    The spirit beasts are pretty good summons, I don't have their exact stats handy (they were changed for BG:EE) but in general, they are more useful than the standard druid shapeshift forms you give up to get them (in that, they are useful at all). At whatever level they return to their default BG2 power level, they're statistically superior to any of the shapeshift forms, and you can still cast spells while they are around, so it's an easy choice. Comparing them to an Avenger is tricky, because the two kits suggest very different play styles.
  • TressetTresset Member, Moderator Posts: 8,268
    Hmm interesting. What about the greater werewolf shape though? That one always seemed impressive to me when Cernd suddenly got -14 AC and 3 potent melee attacks per round. Is that form any good or is it actually less good than it seems?
  • elminsterelminster Member, Developer Posts: 16,317
    edited December 2012
    Tresset said:

    Hmm interesting. What about the greater werewolf shape though? That one always seemed impressive to me when Cernd suddenly got -14 AC and 3 potent melee attacks per round. Is that form any good or is it actually less good than it seems?

    From my understanding it doesn't improve with levels, outside of thac0. It does however add the elemental resistances druids get at high levels to its own resistances (I know this from testing it in BG2). If I'm reading Near Infinity correctly it also doesn't get any + damage to its claws (though you can mod that in). That last point is probably its biggest weakness if I had to guess.
  • AllbrotherAllbrother Member Posts: 261
    edited December 2012
    I may be wrong, but I think the claws adopt whatever bonuses your equipped weapon(s) have
    So if you've equipped Staff of the Ram for example, your claws would be +6 and knock back and stun
  • elminsterelminster Member, Developer Posts: 16,317
    Silchas said:

    I may be wrong, but I think the claws adopt whatever bonuses your equipped weapon(s) have
    So if you've equipped Staff of the Ram for example, your claws would be +6 and knock back and stun

    I think there is a glitch where they would get the item effects (like stun etc) but I don't know if that worked for + attacks. I will have to test. :D
  • elminsterelminster Member, Developer Posts: 16,317
    edited December 2012
    I checked it out. It doesn't look like you do get the to-hit bonus from an equipped weapon (or that it hits as a + whateve weapon). But that might be because I have a fixpack installed.
  • JustariusJustarius Member Posts: 43
    elminster said:

    I checked it out. It doesn't look like you do get the to-hit bonus from an equipped weapon (or that it hits as a + whateve weapon). But that might be because I have a fixpack installed.

    I'm pretty sure it doesn't. What does seem to work is dual wielding gives a bonus attack when shifted. Between that and the boots of speed I'm getting a decent 4 attacks per round. If the greater form doesn't give the equivalent of a +2 magic weapon at least that's going to drop the effectiveness late game by quite a bit.
  • PantalionPantalion Member Posts: 2,137
    I'm strongly tempted to say the best Druid kit is Multiclass Ranger/Cleric, but I imagine that wouldn't be helpful.

    Overall, I'd probably say the top Druid is the Avenger. They get a great addition to their spell-list and some awesome forms to change into.
  • KurumiKurumi Member Posts: 520
    Avenger.. no question about that.. esp. the Sword Spider shape is pretty awesome already (and the other two aren't that bad either) and on top of that you get those nifty spells (some of which scale very well).. :) !!! Not to mention that from a RP pov Avengers also are most interesting.
  • GruloGrulo Member Posts: 109
    Avenger... specially if you get to one-shot a Dragon with Cromatic Orb.
  • Aegir_FellwoodAegir_Fellwood Member Posts: 81
    edited December 2012
    The bug with druid shapechange claws was that they could, and often would get dispelled, and that's how you would get whatever bonus your weapon had while being shapechanged. Ithink it has been fixed now - can anyone confirm?
  • TressetTresset Member, Moderator Posts: 8,268
    edited December 2012
    @elminster @Justarius: I was doing an unrelated test in my BG2 with Cernd the other day (http://forum.baldursgate.com/discussion/11774/bug-protagonist-and-imoen-never-get-fatigue-in-my-party#latest) and I decided to look for +'s on his Greater Werewolf. The claw has at least +2 (my guess would be +3 tho; seems like a common #) since it was able to hit my monk who has immunity to +1 and lower (thanks to Tears, if ya know what I mean). With this in mind, has anyone's opinion of the shapeshifter kit changed at all? (Note: I'm in ToB so any "improve by level factor" That may or may not exist is probably near max.)
  • PugPugPugPug Member Posts: 560
    After rocking the house in BG, a lot of the summons seem to scale really poorly in BG2/TOB. I don't know if this is true about the spirit animals.

    Do the shapeshifter's wereforms get regen? It's just handy to cut down on healing/resting required.
  • TressetTresset Member, Moderator Posts: 8,268
    @PugPug The werewolf forms do get a regen, but it is a rather pitiful one as I recall (About, say, 1/2 as good as ring of regen in BG2. I don't know the exact rate...). Not the best thing but I guess its nice.
  • ZanathKariashiZanathKariashi Member Posts: 2,869
    edited December 2012
    Werewolf form doesn't and Greater only gets the regen from 25 con (which is 10x faster then it should be), clocking about 1 hp/round or equal to a ring of regen. Supposed to be 3/round AND the con regen for greater, and 1/round for plain werewolf. And they're both supposed to be immune to non-magical weapons...though you can imagine how OP that would be.
  • ajwzajwz Member Posts: 4,122
    Insect plague is pretty powerful. If only it came at a level which didn't force me to sacrifice one of my precious iron skin memorisations.
  • TressetTresset Member, Moderator Posts: 8,268
    @ajwz You could use Creeping Doom. That does the same. Although shorter duration and probably a much more valuable spell slot.
    So that was kind of a joke...

    Now with a more serious tone:
    I am starting to lean towards shapeshifter. I can only Imagine the bugs being fixed and even with them I remember Cernd being rather ferocious. Not too sure about totemic really. Summons can be a pain to handle sometimes. If I were to go avenger I'd probably do it more for the bonus spells rather than the shapes. I'm still not 100% sure though...
  • ZanathKariashiZanathKariashi Member Posts: 2,869
    Sword spider form gives Greater werewolf a run for it's money. 5 attacks per round, poisons, hits as if +5, hasted. Throw up ironskins and transform, get a IH from a mage or use a ring/necklace and lay into the enemy with 10 attacks per round. Have them cast a str spell on you for added OPness. Improved invisibility is nice for running up to an enemy then having 4 rounds of being untouchable by most spells while you rape faces with the spider form.
  • TressetTresset Member, Moderator Posts: 8,268
    @ZanathKariashi I am now Reconsidering my previous statement. Thanks... I think.
  • JustariusJustarius Member Posts: 43
    Tresset said:

    @ajwz You could use Creeping Doom. That does the same. Although shorter duration and probably a much more valuable spell slot.
    So that was kind of a joke...

    Now with a more serious tone:
    I am starting to lean towards shapeshifter. I can only Imagine the bugs being fixed and even with them I remember Cernd being rather ferocious. Not too sure about totemic really. Summons can be a pain to handle sometimes. If I were to go avenger I'd probably do it more for the bonus spells rather than the shapes. I'm still not 100% sure though...

    I've played both Shifter and Avenger and enjoyed both. The playstyles differ though and that's more important than the fact that both are, theoretically druids. Shifter is a melee who can self buff for big fights and heal up afterwards. Avenger is an offensive caster and my preference was to have another NPC focus on healing.

    If you want an offensive melee character does shifter sound better than fighter, paladin, ranger, barbarian, monk, swashbuckler or blade?
  • TressetTresset Member, Moderator Posts: 8,268
    @Justarius Another something to consider... What do I want from my druid? Hmmm.
    I like all the feedback I'm getting from everyone; it's really helpful.
  • TressetTresset Member, Moderator Posts: 8,268
    So after many months I decided to use a totemic druid. But, aside from the beasts, he isn't very good yet. I'm just banking on him paying off once he gets to level 9 and 10.
  • Copastetic1985Copastetic1985 Member Posts: 277
    In my opinion, the best way to use a Druid or its' Kits is: Healing, summoning and, CC. Even with a Shapeshifter. Unless the SS Kit has been fixed properly, it's probably best to stick to the basics and only SS when your tanks are taking a beating and you can't get to them in time to heal properly.
  • ZaorZaor Member Posts: 69
    Really? I felt like the best CC a druid has till a certain beautiful 7th level spell was to summon someone else to CC for the druid!
  • Copastetic1985Copastetic1985 Member Posts: 277
    Insect Swarm ( Plague, whatever ) the 5th level version is outstanding for BG1. Throw in a Greater Mallison and all you have to do is pick them off. A level 10 Druid will have two castings of 5th level spells, and three if you have 21 Wisdom.

    Also have a good Dispel Magic. Druids have a great support game.
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