Do NOT be afraid of dual-classing in BG:EE !
Aasimar069
Member Posts: 803
Remember (or not) the times when only BG1 was out.
We had not much problems to dual class at lower levels.
Because the only game that existed was this one and it was a way to take the best of a fantastic game.
At this point, I'm quite sure the people not willing to dual class in this game have started playing the BG Saga when BG2 was out.
So will your *really* only play with a basic/kit warrior or thief, only because you are afraid of not being ultimately powerfull in the late part of the second game, after thousand hours of gaming ?
EDIT : If you want to create a straight thief/mage/warrior class or kit, of course you have the right to.
But if you want to dual class don't be afraid of the level cap
Do you know that you can either restart a game for a character that will follow you in BG2 or recreate one at the beginning of BG2 (with a little help of CLUA if you are too afraid). ?
=> I have this question also : do you finish ALL the BG games (IE : BG1, BG2, TOB) with ALL you characters ?
So after all these questions you can ask yourself to soften your frightened mind, let's face the interest of dual classing so that we can enjoy BG1:
- Dual classing can bring more hitpoints.
- it allows you to use more items.
- You can have the best usage of the low XP cap.
- You can have access to better class combo.
- More weapon proficiencies
So, if you really want to enjoy your playthroughs, you can do the following :
- Warrior 6 / Priest 8
- Thief 6 / Mage 9
- ...
Have you realized that for BG1, these dual classing possibilities are fantastic ?
But no no no I only dual in BG2 because I only want a super powerful character and I don't want to enjoy BG1 !
=> Remember that you can create a character for BG2 when it's out !
Enjoy the game the way it is currently and what it offers, you'll have plenty of time to play BG2:EE !
EDIT : If you want to create a straight thief/mage/warrior class or kit, of course you have the right to.
But if you want to dual class don't be afraid of the level cap.
We had not much problems to dual class at lower levels.
Because the only game that existed was this one and it was a way to take the best of a fantastic game.
At this point, I'm quite sure the people not willing to dual class in this game have started playing the BG Saga when BG2 was out.
So will your *really* only play with a basic/kit warrior or thief, only because you are afraid of not being ultimately powerfull in the late part of the second game, after thousand hours of gaming ?
EDIT : If you want to create a straight thief/mage/warrior class or kit, of course you have the right to.
But if you want to dual class don't be afraid of the level cap
Do you know that you can either restart a game for a character that will follow you in BG2 or recreate one at the beginning of BG2 (with a little help of CLUA if you are too afraid). ?
=> I have this question also : do you finish ALL the BG games (IE : BG1, BG2, TOB) with ALL you characters ?
So after all these questions you can ask yourself to soften your frightened mind, let's face the interest of dual classing so that we can enjoy BG1:
- Dual classing can bring more hitpoints.
- it allows you to use more items.
- You can have the best usage of the low XP cap.
- You can have access to better class combo.
- More weapon proficiencies
So, if you really want to enjoy your playthroughs, you can do the following :
- Warrior 6 / Priest 8
- Thief 6 / Mage 9
- ...
Have you realized that for BG1, these dual classing possibilities are fantastic ?
But no no no I only dual in BG2 because I only want a super powerful character and I don't want to enjoy BG1 !
=> Remember that you can create a character for BG2 when it's out !
Enjoy the game the way it is currently and what it offers, you'll have plenty of time to play BG2:EE !
EDIT : If you want to create a straight thief/mage/warrior class or kit, of course you have the right to.
But if you want to dual class don't be afraid of the level cap.
4
Comments
It makes absolutely no sense.
You are gimping yourself for hours of gameplay just to get more powerful later - and mostly borerline OP.
I would be happier with some multi-class options for humans.
But as for myself, if what I'm after is an experience of enjoying both class skills simultaneously, I'm not going to have that until quite late in the game if I dual-class. (Unless I dual at level 3, but the results are then 'meh'.) And I'm then going through the low levels for both the respective classes, each, one set at a time. This occurs at a point in the development of the game when I would prefer for my character to be getting more powerful--not weaker, by starting all over again in a new class.
The only way I've ever come close to enjoying dual-classing is to pretty seriously meta-game by soloing the basillisk map early in the game, and playing with a party of three for quite a while after that. It's not required that one solo or play with three party members to dual-class, mind you. I'm just extremely impatient to get the process over with as quickly as possible in order to get both class skills simultaneously. So I then wish to level as fast as possible.
I'm just sacrificing too much of what I personally enjoy about the game if I dual-class. I want a character that steadily becomes more powerful as the game progresses (rather than lurching backwards in prowess mid-game); I prefer a full party of six; I'm more of a roleplayer than meta-gamer at heart.
The only BG1 duals I'd do would be low level duals so something like a 3/10 fighter/druid.
Running around half the game being gimp, "leaching" XP from the rest of the group until you can be useful again.
Rather play a Multi-Class, and WHY is multi-class race limited, it makes no sense at all.
" - Hey guys, I have decided, that from now on instead of practicing larceny I will focus on my fighting skills.
- Thats cool man, hey, could you still open the simpler locks we encounter tough?
- NOOO! ME BIG FIGHTER NOW! DOORS ARE FOR SMASHING ONLY RAAWWWR!
*** time passes***
- Okay we killed the last evil monstrosity in this catacomb. Too bad we cant continue to the lower levels because of that locked door.
- Wait...I...I am stronger. Now I am better at fighting than I ever was at thieving - I...I think I can open locks again.
- YAAY IT'S A MIRACLE!
And they went into the lower levels of crypts happily ever after until they got murdered by Kangaxx. The end."
So yeah. I don't get it.
I wish BG was 3ed
currently, i'm playing swash 7/ cleric 8 build and it is a lot of fun. i also think dual class is interesting BECAUSE you're gimping yourself for some time. PC decided he found his true calling in other class and follows that route (roleplaying excuse) and nothing is without consequences.
and in my experience, in multiclass combinations i usually lose interest in one of the classes after some point, because i got all i need from it after some level (usually the fighter class gives less and less interesting stuff as it levels). the rest is then a drag and i level more slowly the class i find more interesting (i'ts usually a spellcasting class), so dual class makes more sense for me.
In PnP, if you used your former class's skills while it was inactive, you had xp penalty. Example:you are thief4 dualled into mage level 3 and had to pick a lock because it was a that or death situation. You would not gain any xp for that session. (which is a huge xp penalty) cos you did not try to solve the problem at hand with your new skills. (if only you had a knock spell!) This is too difficult to implement so BG2 just disables your old class skills to simulate this.
And I love dual-classing at low levels. I dualled a fighter at level 3 to thief, and he had mastery in scimitars. He just hit lvl 4 as thief (easy enough to achieve) and his old skills came back, I put one more pip to his scimitar so he is high master now.
He is so skilled in scimitar that he does more damage than Minsc's two handed sword with it, (and my char does not even have percentile STR, for RP purposes) and he can backstab with it up to x4 damage eventually, since his thieving progress is unhampered, and he also has single weapon prof. to increase his crit. chance when backstabbing. Pretty bada$$, in my opinion.
He will get grandmastery in scimitars at lvl 8, and will hopefully have a STR enhancing equipment. Think about x4 backtsab with %10 chance of critical hit with grand mastery AND exceptional STR. Cool, I can't wait to dish out the punishment! ^^
A dual-classed human is almost always better than a pure class human. But you have to do it EARLY. Level 3 is best for a fighter. This is not BG2.
Dual classing late is only useful if your main interest is building a character for use in BG2.
Yes, it was gamey in PnP too, though at least it wasn't bugged so that you could get Grandmastery as a thief, unlike Baldur's Gate.
I want to learn a new skillset.
Therefore I lobotomise myself and refuse to do anything whatsoever with my old skillset, because that would stop me from learning from all the things I've achieved with my new skillset.
If I even *think* about what I learned in my old job before that time, I get a nosebleed and don't gain an arbitrary game resource!
When I've decided arbitrarily that I'm better at my new job than my old one, I decide I can start using my old skills again - but I can't advance in my old skills ever again, only the legendarily non-flexible Dwarves and Elves are capable of such Witchery!
Less interesting or challenging, maybe? Boring compared with dual-classing?
Unfortunately Icewind Dale 2 is the only one of the IE games to use those rules. Its a shame they couldn't have done BGEE under Icewind's setup. But at least they could bring in Kits.
But that said, dual classing can be a lot of fun to play around with. I particularly like starting a cleric or Mage as a fighter, then dualing them pretty early, like at 3rd level. It gives you a nice early boost of hit points, some weapon proficiencies you wouldn't otherwise have (specifically; I like to do a Mage candidate as a bow specialist, or a cleric as a mace or flail specialist) and the time lost by dualing so early is pretty minimal.
Took Saverok to badly injured with one backstab from the staff of striking before he even got to move.
Then used the sandthief ring and backstabbed him again to end the game.
@Nic_Mercy
If you do 6 Fighter / 9 Thief instead of 7 Fighter / 8 Thief you get 4x Backstab by the end of the game.
The problem with dualing in BG1 is that you have deathtraps like Durlag's tower, which is basically impossible without at least a level 6 thief - preferably 7 - to deal with all the traps. In my party, Imoen is the go-to girl when I go to these places. Dualing her to mage (at 6 or 7) means I'll be without her thieving skills until the end of the game, at which point I profit little from the awesome treasure found in Durlag's. If not for that, dualing to mage at 7 would make a lot of sense, especially if Charname has thieving skills, too.
I've tried dualing before on many occassions, but find it distracts from my focus on the game.
With a party of 6 wouldn't it take a fair amount of time to have both classes active? I'm no expert on Dual classing btw
I guess it all depends on how much backstabbing you plan to do vs. the number of consistent extra attacks you want to have.
But I'm still perfectly happy to run her either way. I only wish that whichever choice I made carried over to BG2. I think it would be interesting if you had to live with the consequences of your decisions to the end of the story.
I wont go into it in too much depth, but suffice to say that in D&D early editions, including 2nd ed, the player was largely expected to play humans. The other races were considered much more desirable and thus powerful (It was assumed that the fact that elves would live many hundreds of years for example, would make them hugely more desirable that humans to play).
Therefore, non-humans developed their own set of drawbacks if you picked them. Chief amongst which was the fact that non-humans could only ever reach a certain level, and never go beyond, depending on what class they chose. This level cap was normally relatively low by today's standards (ususally around lvl10-12)
However, D&D has classically had pretty powerful elves and dwarves and others in lore, so another mechanism was needed to allow their powers to be reflected in mechanical terms. Hence, multi-classing was invented, and separated from the standard dual classing of humans.
Dual classing of humans is supposed to represent their versatility and ability to become what they want to be, in contrast with the longer lived races who tended to be more conservative with their attitudes, and stuck to tradition.
I still have the strong bias that the game plays best below 10th level. And it really was an expectation in most games I played that your advancement would start to slow way down around sixth level. Things were VERY different...
I'd also add the way the experience tables graduate was pretty well designed so a multi-class character is generally one level below single class characters in the same party. That works until 9th or 10th level when multi-class really fall behind. And I only ever saw one person play a triple class character. We all laughed at him when did that. For nine months of real time he was practically useless. Then he was scary powerful for about three game sessions. Then we all graduated from college and never played that game again...
a) not enjoyable with a single class Fighter or Thief and
b) The game is only enjoyable if you don't care about role playing and
c) if you powergame
Then there's the bored part. Leveling is slow and feels like a chore. I don't know why people are always on about the level cap on the forums, because I'm certainly not hitting it. It would of course be much quicker if I played with a smaller party, but I don't. I like having 4-6 characters in the IE games. When regular leveling is slow enough, stopping to start over and then play catch-up certainly isn't my idea of making the game more fun. I guess I could figure out where respawn nodes are and then abuse those for a while but erch... that's grinding. Grinding doesn't belong in single-player RPGs.
And lastly, seeing as BG:EE uses BGII's engine, aren't you automatically stuck with that ugly "warrior" character model when you dual-class from anything to anything? Oh how I hated that. Let my knaves look like a thief or mage damnit.
Like the triple class character I mentioned above, we had so much fun figuring out what to do with him, how to keep him alive, and what his role was going to be in the party. It is now a 30 year old memory that can get the bunch of us laughing whenever we're together.
Obviously a CRPG can never be quite the same bonding experience, but the story is well conceived, the characters are amusing and not over powered, and I always find the 2E rules refreshing and simple to game with. But even so, there's enough complexity and sophistication that planning and building characters remains an entertaining part of the game. And having completed BG some 20+ times now, those various character and party builds are the source of a lot of fun to me.