Toril vs Burning Legion

Illustair

What do you think would happen if the Warcraft's Burning Legion sought to conquer Toril instead of Azeroth?

Quick facts/links (optional read)
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The Burning Legion and its 1 million-strong army of powerful demons against Toril would be commanded by the ubers Archimonde CR:50 and Kil'jaeden Sorc(26)/Warlock(10) CR:59. To name a few more of its ranking officers: Mannoroth CR:45, Tichondrius Wiz(20)/Necromancer(13) CR:44, and 4 or 5 dozen more at around their level (15-30ish). Know that they can also resurrect corpses into ghouls that are more agile than the Toril ghouls, on top of their already massive numbers; so expect millions upon millions of them esp if the war continues for a long time.

In my opinion, the most powerful spellcasters of Faerun (most importantly, Larloch the Level 46 version and his army of archmages), the continent of Kara-Tur's Shou Lung with 100 million soldiers, and the Harpers would all play a huge role. Toril would win but with heavy losses (half of entire population maybe)!

Assumptions/Guidelines (must read)
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- gods/deities can't interfere directly for some reason (e.g. Ao, Mystra, Sargeras); only of Divine Rank 0 allowed
- timeline is pre-Irenicus battle (say, PC and the gang are level 20ish)
- Toril would stand united (even most of the "usually bad guys" like the Twisted Rune and Red Wizards) and would set aside past grievances (e.g. no more Luskan vs. Neverwinter, or Elves vs. Drows); unless of course if they are directly being manipulated/controlled as part of Burning Legion's tactics
- no trolling please, like "there'd be no Warcraft" ;p
- let's keep it civil please

Madhax

Burning Legion would cause devastating loss of life during their initial attack, but I can't imagine they'd remain effective once Toril started fighting back. Forgotten Realms spellcasters are way more powerful than their Azerothian counterparts, and if they formed a united front against the burning legion, it would be no contest.

Illustair

@Madhax
Agreed, I couldn't imagine the seemingly untouchables Elminster and Larloch lose either. Even though it should be noted, Azeroth also has some very powerful spellcasters: Jaina is level 17 (wizard 13/archmage 4), Medivh is level 35 (sorc 25/ warlock 10), Malfurion the Archdruid is also 35 (healer 17/scout 8/druid 10), Malorne the Stag is level 55 (healer 35/druid 10/hunter 10) and many more who range from level 12-30. They probably have more than half of the number in the list of powerful spellcasters from Faerun I provided; not as many, but they can sure pack a punch (or spell) at those levels. The numbers provided are their 3.5 d&d stats. The Burning Legion are also very devious, it's been proven that they can corrupt high-level characters; I wouldn't be surprised if Simbul or the Red Wizards would get corrupted, and forced to do their bidding.

Madhax

I'm not sure where you're coming up with D&D levels for Warcraft characters, though they seem pretty spot-on.

I still don't see the Azerothians being anywhere near as formidable as Toril. There are basically 1-2 notably high-level characters per race in Azeroth, and many more per race in Toril. I mean, my knowledge of Forgotten Realms lore is pretty spotty (mostly just the Drizzt books, a couple other books, and the CRPGs), but it seems like the Chosen of Mystra alone would probably outnumber the notable Azerothian heroes.

Howie

Oh go up and check out FR settings, Warcraft creatures can't stand a chance with a high magic world like that. One simple Mithral and the Warcraft demons are goners.

Michail

A few Toril settlements would be razed and then the wizards and clerics would come in. No need for armies and logistics and organization. A few massive teleports and wind walks and the horde would start to crumble from all sides.

Illustair

I'm surprised no one sided with Burning Legion - the destroyer of countless worlds with army size of 1 million. Some of its high-ranking leaders can even cast 12th level spells e.g. Rain of Chaos that can summon several giant Infernals (each I believe would be more than a match to a single FR Giant). Vampires that can walk in broad daylight, and can cast high level spells. Seemingly infinite summons with their resurrect as ghoul spells. That's to name a few. Barring the mages, and army to army only, I think Azeroth is far more stronger than Toril. That's why they held off decently. Then again, the strength of Toril lies on its powerful spellcasters.

But fair enough, I chose Toril as well anyway.;p

Howie

fredamora said:

I'm surprised no one sided with Burning Legion - the destroyer of countless worlds with army size of 1 million.

Because those portals would immediately be shutdown by the Crom Wizards(forgot spelling), and the wizards of Thay would immediately enslaved that CR 30 demon to their Lich lord.

Then look at the Faerun specific spells and you see how weak those Warcraft demons are. Deities of Faerun had left tons of magical treasures and Weaves for Toril to protect itself from outsiders.

Btw your context is a bit flawed, somewhat. If you account for pre Irenicus Faerun, it's 2e or even 1e era, that means the magic was far more powerful and ridiculous than 3e. Gods wage wars on each others constantly, not manifesting like Greyhawk but they have insanely powerful followers to battle each other.

Illustair

@Howie
I guess that makes sense. Portals shut down, and the wars over before it could even begin. If I'm not mistaken, that's how Azeroth won in one of its 3 wars. It's CR:50 and 59 for the leaders though...odd I know, since they only have 30ish levels, I guess they're well beyond their levels (probably due to items).

And oh, really. I apologize then. I'm not familiar with the rules and history other than that of the FR computer games, and some searches here and there; never had the chance to play d&d pen and paper (that's how it's called right?), never got a hold of any d&d books either. Do you mean BG lorewise should have had 2e or 1e then?

sandmanCCL

Toril wins, and heavy losses are endured. Just like every demon army invasion into a major fantasy play setting, ever.

It wins for the same reason Azeroth won.

Also, Elminster.

Wiggles

An army of 1mil+?

How many people does the city of Waterdeep have alone?

LadyRhian

Deities might not be able to interfere directly, but their priests and followers *can*. Not to mention the non-human deities of Dwarves, Elves, Halflings, Gnomes and so on. I doubt they'd let their followers and priests sit this one out. Just some of the powerful higher level spells like Banishment (7th Level- returns extraplanar creatures to their home plane, and they cannot come back without a special summons or means of egress), Limited Wish (7th Level, a wish to make powerless this or that creature while on Toril would likely be granted by the deities and prove disastrous for the Burning Legion). The Eighth Level spell Antipathy/Sympathy could make the Burning Legion incredibly uncomfortable on Toril and make them want to go home. Binding (also 8th Level) would deal with stronger entities from the BL. Trap the Soul (another 8th level spell) imprisons the creature in a gemstone. Gate (9th Level Spell) Send the Burning Legion to Limbo, the Nine Hells, Pandemonium, the Abyss or another outer plane. For that matter Gate in Planetars and Solars and have them help. Imprisonment (9th Level) Another good spell for taking out high-level members of the Burning Horde. Time Stop and Temporal Stasis (both 9th Level) would help, as would "Power Word: Kill" and "Wish".

Now, I don't know if the Burning Legion would be considered Evil, but Protection from Evil and Protection from Evil 10' Radius" are low-enough level spells to give most members of the Legion fits if they *are* evil. Not to mention "Holy Word". And then there are conjured Elementals and the general succor that Priests and Mages could give their allies. Mass Bless Spells, Aid... Not to mention all those wonderful magic items: Sphere of Annihilation, Staff of Power, Staff of the Magi, Rod of Lordly Might... I think the Burning Legion might decide that Discretion was the Better Part of Valour and head home or decide to take on a Squishier target. Even the Red Wizards of Thay helped take out the Tuigan Horde- because their homelands were directly at risk. If the entire world was at risk... I think even people like the Cult of the Dragon, The Hosttower of the Arcane, The Witches of Rashemen, and Halruaa are going to want in on helping deal with it.

Howie

I believe there was a module involving planes walking about the Blood War about to spread to Faerun. Forgot the name of that adventure, it's about traveling between Faerun, Sigil, Outland and the three Hells to reveal the plot to invasion.

Before 4e, there were also massive abjuration continental enchantments called Mithral that protects the places from various effects. These were ancient elven magics passed down by Mystra to ward perhaps the elves from orcs or something similar.

Even though Shar had "killed" Mystra in 3e, the Weave (the magic) of Faerun did not really went to her, so it is likely the Weave itself could have its own free will, and the Weave is the law of magic in Faerun. That means the Weave could still intervene with the demon invasion should it end up as planar war.

Burning Legion itself, it's funny. Only a few major demons were capable of defeating some of the major figures in Faerun. But you see Faerun is not just any prime material planes they had ever invaded. Those generals including Achimonde, according to Warcraft RPG have Wish spell in their list, and some other 9th level Warcraft exclusive spells. However Faerun NPCs are in many ways superoverpowered just to beat down the broken PCs to keep them in line. Pulling them out would simply railroaded the Burning Legion to defeat.

Computer games combined are like 10% of the whole FR campaign, If Achimonde ever wished to successfully invade Faerun, he must spend centuries planting seeds in the plane, perhaps outside Toril, to establish outposts and allegiance themselves with local deities followers. The perfect ally would probably be Shar, the lord of darkness who seeks ultimate non-existence to all. Second would be Lolth, the demon queen of the Drow, but Lolth herself has a war of her own, she might be too preoccupied to bother with Achimonde, or would strike a stiff bargain with him first.

So a successful invasion is possible, but definitely not the way like the way Blizzard did it.

LadyRhian

@Howle Definitely. And I was only mentioning spells from the 2e Player's Handbook. 1e had spells like Cacodemon, because back then, Demons and Devils were actually called Demons and Devils, not Tanar'ri and Baatezu. There are whole sourcebooks, like "Pages from the Mages" that give FR-exclusive spells like the Symbul's Synostodwoemer and Elminster's Effulgent Epuration, that he can call on. And people like Szass Tam (Zulkir of Necromancy in Thay) and Manshoon can call on. I doubt the Symbul could be taken over so easily of the Chosen. She's the one who is the most paranoid of them all and the most driven to create new magics (She actually made a spell that allows her to hear her name being spoken and the next sentence or two uttered by that being.) There is also Storm Silverhand, who fought Iyachtu Xvim, the Godson of Bane, and won. (Him being a demipower at the time). There is the spell "Blade in the Soul" (9th level) which is a sort of "do this or be harmed/die" spell. "Eye of Mystra" removes all the spells known by a target (also 9th Level). Hope those BL guys don't need to cast a spell or something! Spellstorm (9th Level) animates all weapons to attack the targets around the wizard. Eye of Wonder (also 9th Level) Prevents any spells except those the wizard chooses, to function. And once you really damage one of the Leaders with a big spell, Afterclap, an 8th Level Spell, damages them again in the exact same way, so if they failed their save the first time, they fail their save the second time. Your BL guys can cast "Wish"? Not with Dweomerdeny, which prevents them from casting or learning that spell again FOREVER. And only an 8th level spell. And BL guy casts a spell they don't know? Alamanther's Return (Level 9) can duplicate it, without the wizard needing to know anything about it.

Yeah, methinks the Burning Legion will go running home, holding their thoroughly whipped butts with both hands. Oh, and one other thing.... It's Mythal, not Mithral.