I don't get all the fuss over Chromatic Orb

PugPug

Yeah, it gets some mean effects at higher levels, but with a +6 bonus to the target's saving throw, you're not going to see them happen.

ryuken87

There are ways to lower saves and enemies in BG1 have bad saves anyway. Saying that, I'd rather spend my level 1 slots on Sleep for disabling effects and on Magic Missile later in the game for the damage.

Madhax

Yeah, in the BG series it's only really effective after you've tossed some save-lowering debuffs at the target. Once you've done so, however, it's an instant-kill spell that only takes up a level 1 slot.

It's more useful in IWD2, in my opinion, since in that ruleset it is dodged rather than resisted. This means that, while it doesn't work well on humanoids, it's almost a guaranteed stun/paralyze/stone/kill on giantkin and other large foes.

EnterHaerDalis

What fuss?

Tresset

Hey, it used to be worse! I remember when the save negated the damage as well!

VoidSorcerer

Honestly the spell is of little importance in BG1. Yes, I use it, but that's simply because I'm a fanboy of its power in ToB. (The ability to petrify a target is just SO cool to see - other than the fact that you don't get to loot any goods....)

Magic Missiles is actually very much the stronger in BG1, so take that and you should be fine. Sleep is alright, but easily replaced by many more useful spells after chapter 1.

SwordsNotWords

Worked very well for me in my Black Pits run through without any save lowering debuffs.

CamDawg

If I had a nickel every time someone made a fuss about Chromatic Orb, I'd have five cents. And that includes this thread.

ZanathKariashi

Sleep is never replaced till BG2. It's effectively a death spell to most generic bandits, spiders, wolves, ogres, hobgoblins, kobolds, gnolls. Which either hit hard or come in large groups. The only enemies it falters against are named enemies and the handful of monsters greater then 4+3 HD. And by then you should be stocking up on blinds and spooks. The -3 save penalty ensures that it almost never fails as long as the target is within the HD limit.

I don't use CO because of that save bonus..yes, if you slap glitterdust, doom, and GM on something, it has a decent chance of working....if not...it only works on enemies who probably would've died from the damage anyway. And that's a lot of spells and work just for the CHANCE at a instant-kill. Damage-wise MM blows it out of the water, and in reliability too. (still prefer blind or spook myself though).

ajwz

I don't get the whole violent idealogical conflict over delay poison

ZanathKariashi

Because poison damage will interupt it, and it takes just long enough you can't cast it on yourself while poisoned...when it's on another person, it's ok, but it's useless if you're solo. Of course, crowd control that doesn't take up any spells slots beats SP hands down, so horror is often the best possible choice. (back when you got ghoul touch instead of horror...it was a bit harder to choose...mostly depending on your class)

CaptRory

Chromatic Orb gains new legs in the hand of a Wild Mage as well. Getting a big fat +5 to Caster Value can really splat (or Petrify) a guy.

Lemernis

I agree with what others are saying about level one spellbook slots eventually no longer having to be spent on Sleep. Sleep will eventually get replaced with Emotion: Hopelessness. Similarly, Charm Person will get replaced in my spellbook with Dire Charm. And so on.

Early in the game my essential level 1 wizard spells are Sleep, Blindness, and Charm Person (and Armor when playing a Fighter-Mage). But by the end of BG1 I'm ready to start using Magic Missile and Chromatic Orb at level 1 in addition to Blindness. At some point in BG2 enemies usually save against Sleep and Charm Person anyway, and the higher level versions of those spells make them irrelevant.

Abel

Yep, CO isn't worth learning in BG1. It's very useful in IWD1 where surprisingly there's no bonus to save. But then, it is capped to paralysis.

DrEast

Chromatic Orb is mostly championed by people who use the level-based save-lowering mechanic from BG Tweaks, which is a popular mod. In that format, by level 16 you're looking at a +3 save bonus, and that plus Greater Malison make for a very nice level 1 spell with a death effect.

PugPug

Lemernis said:

Early in the game my essential level 1 wizard spells are Sleep, Blindness, and Charm Person (and Armor when playing a Fighter-Mage). But by the end of BG1 I'm ready to start using Magic Missile and Chromatic Orb at level 1 in addition to Blindness.

Spook is a level 1 spell single-target Horror with a level-based save penalty (though I think it caps at -3) and no hit dice limit.

Horror doesn't have a hit dice limit either, of course, but that's a level 2 spell.

Still, at any level, it's hard to beat the reliability of Magic Missile. It's just a little vanilla, you know?

Dazzu

Maybe it's just me, but I like having Shield spell, because Tarnesh is a dick!

DrEast

The fact that magic missile can take out Mordenkainen's Sword more or less tells you what the absolute best level 1 spell is.

Dazzu

But a starting mage can't even kill a xvart with magic missile!

Ragnarok

No one use Chill Touch? Tssss, I'm disapointed.

Dazzu

The only 'touch' spell I'd ever consider is Vampiric Touch, and that functions more like an advanced hybrid of Burning Hands and Larloch's Drain rather than an on melee hit.

PugPug

Touch spells would be better if they functioned like touch attacks in later editions of DnD.

Lemernis

Ghoul Touch is kind of fun, but mainly for mages that sometimes like to live dangerously. There's something satisfying about it when it hits.

Lennis

Ragnarok said:

No one use Chill Touch? Tssss, I'm disapointed.

Because it's suicidal for the typical mage build. It only takes one kobold to roll a 20 to end your fun. A fighter/mage could use it effectively, I guess.

CoM_Solaufein

Chromatic Orb is a good spell even at high levels but it doesn't beat Magic Missile.

Lemernis

MM is better, in that if you had to choose between one or the other, yeah. But it's still gratifying to see Chromatic Orb kill... a dragon, let's say.

ajwz

I like how this thread turned from a near universal agreement that there is no big fuss about chromatic orb into a large debate about the relative merits of chromatic orb.

I think OP has won a small victory here.

Dazzu

Burning Hands is best... in IWD at least. 1d3+lvl cone fire damage in an icy world is more than just good.

ReadingRambo

CamDawg said:

If I had a nickel every time someone made a fuss about Chromatic Orb, I'd have five cents. And that includes this thread.

I lol'd! Haha

Solobear

PugPug said:

Yeah, it gets some mean effects at higher levels, but with a +6 bonus to the target's saving throw, you're not going to see them happen.

orb>casters

ZanathKariashi

Caster's have good saves vs spells (which the orb is), warriors don't...but are still good enough with that huge honking bonus, you'll need to debuff them just to have a chance...or if you're throwing it at enemies that will die from the damage regardless.