I keep using the same spells all the time, help me mix it up!

Nostalgia

So I recently played a Sorcorer because I found whenever I play a mage I end up using the same spells anyway regardless of choice. In my next play through I wana play a specilist mage and experiment with some lesser used spells for fun.

Help me pick some spells for each level that are not commonly used.

Common spells I use are: Magic missle, sleep, identify, armor, mirror image, melfs acid arrow, abaneasors scorcher, fireball, haste, slow, etc. Obviously other too...

Help me pick out some spells that I can use that are fun and reliable for regular use.

Edit: Lets extend this to priest/druid spells: what are some spells you find fun that arnt commonly used?

atcDave

Some spells really are better than others, and you naturally will use them more often. Others have very specific, but limited usefulness (like protection from petrification) and you may want them a couple times, but not routinely. If you found something that works for you that's great. If you have problems in some situation (like usually a boss fight) you may want to get more creative and try something else. But I wouldn't ever worry about the spells you aren't using; if you don't need them, you don't need them!

Nic_Mercy

Chromatic Orb is a decent alternative to Magic Missile though it takes time to grow into its full power.

Shield is a better choice than Armor for a sorcerer IMO, but Armor is a better choice than Shield for a mage IMO as well. The reason being is that a sorc can pop shield whenever necessary and use other 1st lvl spells instead when its not without any prep time. A mage has to think ahead and prepare for things in advance. Armor's very long duration means 1 prep of it is usually good till you need to rest.

I actually dont ever take sleep because it becomes useless at higher levels. But Colorspray is a similar spell that you could use in its place. If you'd prefer something that will be useful through the whole series take Spook!

At 2nd level you really don't have much choice outside of Melf's Acid Arrow or Agannazar's Scorcher for dealing damage. Other spells at this level that are useful include: Ray of Enfeeblement, Resist Fear, Invisibility, Glitterdust, Mirror Image, Horror, Blur

At 3rd level Skull Trap instead of fireball is often recommended due to the fact that Skull Trap has no damage cap whereas Fireball maxes at lvl 10. Skull Trap requires a little more finesse to use though. Lightning Bolt is just too detrimental to your party to use indoors IMO. Flame Arrow is great for single target damage AND it scales through the whole series. Melf's Minute Meteors is a great spell especially in bg2 and tob. If you want non damage type spells in place of haste/slow try Hold Person or Dire Charm. Monster Summoning spells are useful too even if only to send ahead to trigger traps for you.

With all that said there's a reason you find yourself using some of the same spells frequently... even throughout the whole series. They are just that good. Even in pnp D&D some spells are just so universally useful you'll see them used constantly. Magic Missile is probably one of the most commonly used spells though all generations of D&D!

Tie_Fighter

There are some spells that are just much more powerful, but then there are some that are good but you have to have a strategy with them. It really depends on what the rest of your guys are doing, and comboing with that. E.g. Spider Web while your tank wields the free action-sword and the rest of your guys shoot arrows is pretty good. Or protection spells plus suitable area damage spells, fire probably being the simplest. If you have a team full of wizards and sorcerers, charms get better, since enemies will usually save against one, but not against four or five.

EnterHaerDalis

Try playing Xan as your mage

Nostalgia

EnterHaerDalis said:

Try playing Xan as your mage

I find him not as much fun due to not having magic missle, which is the life blood of my mages damage. Is there other spells thats I could use in replacment. People have suggested cromatic orb but I find its resisted more than it hits unfortunatly

JonelethIrenicus

Skull Trap!!

CaptRory

Is there any kind of Spell Mod that just adds a ton more spells? That would allow variety by introducing a lot more viable alternatives. Snowball Swarm vs. Fireball for example.

EnterHaerDalis

Nostalgia said:

EnterHaerDalis said:

Try playing Xan as your mage

I find him not as much fun due to not having magic missle, which is the life blood of my mages damage. Is there other spells thats I could use in replacment. People have suggested cromatic orb but I find its resisted more than it hits unfortunatly

sounds like your quite attached to magic missile....and no, there is no replacement for the range and damage you get from it at level 1.

if you really wanted to diversify your spells you will have to downgrade a bit. Doesn't sound like you really care too much about diversity though so just stick with what works best.

I think you can get a Melf's Minute Meteors scroll at the Sorcerors Sundries in Baldurs Gate, that's a fun level 3 spell.

Ken

I'm (for the first time in 10 years) using Xan as a mage.. He is actually decent in melee, and his charm spells works wonders!

Nostalgia

EnterHaerDalis said:

Nostalgia said:

EnterHaerDalis said:

Try playing Xan as your mage

I find him not as much fun due to not having magic missle, which is the life blood of my mages damage. Is there other spells thats I could use in replacment. People have suggested cromatic orb but I find its resisted more than it hits unfortunatly

sounds like your quite attached to magic missile....and no, there is no replacement for the range and damage you get from it at level 1.

if you really wanted to diversify your spells you will have to downgrade a bit. Doesn't sound like you really care too much about diversity though so just stick with what works best.

I think you can get a Melf's Minute Meteors scroll at the Sorcerors Sundries in Baldurs Gate, that's a fun level 3 spell.

Well I do WANT to care, I just don't want to give up such a bread and butter spell, but I'm willing to give it a try. My next play through I'm gonna pick up Xan and try use charm and such, could be fun. For me I almost have to force my self not to min-max when I play cause it's just so inlaid into my game play style

Mortianna

Limit the number of spells your can have in your spellbook by giving your mage/specialist wizard a lower-than-usual intelligence, like a 14. It will restrict your spellbook to 9 spells per level and you'll have to decide carefully on what spells to scribe. However, this time, try to resist putting the same old spells in your book and try out some different spells. You can always erase a spell if you find you don't like it.

CaptRory

@Mortianna Isn't that a bit backwards. The fewer spells you can know, the less likely you are to experiment. I would say play a Wild Mage. Being able to (try to) cast any spell at any time means you're more likely to want to experiment. Like, "If Charm doesn't work I can always use Reckless to try and salvage things..."

Mortianna

@CaptRory Since OP said he (I'm assuming "he") ends up using the same spells regardless of the amount of choices he has, limiting his choices to spells he doesn't normally use would force him to experiment with those spells. Sometimes we need constraints upon our choices in order to break out of the same, comfortable routines.

Nostalgia

Mortianna said:

@CaptRory Since OP said he (I'm assuming "he") ends up using the same spells regardless of the amount of choices he has, limiting his choices to spells he doesn't normally use would force him to experiment with those spells. Sometimes we need constraints upon our choices in order to break out of the same, comfortable routines.

I do see what your saying however I'm more looking for idea's for situations where some spells really shine that are not typically used. Like the web and free action situation, or a charm spell or something like that.

CaptRory

The problem is that spells boil down into: Damage, Save or Die, Save or Suck, and Crowd Control. You don't have as much variety as in the actual P&P game. That list doesn't include stuff you cast on your own guys for the most part.

szb

Start as an enchanter specialist mage. With no direct damage spells you will be forced to explore all other possibilities. Read trough the spell description and you will figure out new fun and powerfull ways to combine spells you might tought useless before.

While the damage spells are nice, they are not the only way you can play a mage effectively. In my opinion most of the direct damage spells are a waste to memorize anyway, because there are more then enough wands to take care of that if needed.

EnterHaerDalis

Mortianna said:

Limit the number of spells your can have in your spellbook by giving your mage/specialist wizard a lower-than-usual intelligence, like a 14. It will restrict your spellbook to 9 spells per level and you'll have to decide carefully on what spells to scribe. However, this time, try to resist putting the same old spells in your book and try out some different spells. You can always erase a spell if you find you don't like it.

Where's the dislike button? :P

Sorry but this is horrible advice lol. He's not looking to reduce his efficiency at all...

I'll briefly go over some of the more offensive style spells.. you don't have as many options as you think you do


Level 1 spells

Grease can be highly effective especially when you have lots of Ranged in your party
Color Spray is actually effective at lower levels, make sure not to get in it's AOE range yourself
Blindness is good, -4 to hit rolls and -4 to AC on select target
Laroch's Minor Drain is the poor mans magic missile
Burning Hands is fun, and a good option to replace Magic Missile even though you sacrifice range
Chromatic Orb is pretty fun
Chill Touch is the same as Shocking Grasp except with 2 less damage
Shocking Grasp can be pleasurable but you have to roll a successful melee attack
Sleep is pretty damn useful

Level 2 spells

Horror - Amazing spell, nothing else to say
Ghoul Touch paralyzes them upon successful melee attack
Stinking Cloud is a nice AOE spell
Web is quite good, but annoys the hell out of me
Melfs Acid Arrow is one of the only level 2 pure damage spells
Agannazars Scorcher is the other level 2 pure damage spell

Level 3

Hold Person is amazing. I didn't actually know it had an AOE effect until recently
Dire Charm is a nice breath of fresh air and is lots of fun
Slow is a Pretty fun spell although I rarely use it
Monster Summoning I is simply classic
Fireball
Skull Trap
Lightning
Flame Arrow - these 4 spells make up your core level 3 damage output

Nostalgia

EnterHaerDalis said:

Mortianna said:

Limit the number of spells your can have in your spellbook by giving your mage/specialist wizard a lower-than-usual intelligence, like a 14. It will restrict your spellbook to 9 spells per level and you'll have to decide carefully on what spells to scribe. However, this time, try to resist putting the same old spells in your book and try out some different spells. You can always erase a spell if you find you don't like it.

Where's the dislike button? :P

Sorry but this is horrible advice lol. He's not looking to reduce his efficiency at all...

I'll briefly go over some of the spells.. you don't have as many options as you think you do


Level 1 spells

Grease can be highly effective especially when you have lots of Ranged in your party
Color Spray is actually effective at lower levels, make sure not to get in it's AOE range yourself
Blindness is good, -4 to hit rolls and -4 to AC on select target
Laroch's Minor Drain is the poor mans magic missile
Burning Hands is fun, and a good option to replace Magic Missile even though you sacrifice range
Chromatic Orb is pretty fun
Chill Touch is the same as Shocking Grasp except with 2 less damage
Shocking Grasp can be pleasurable but you have to roll a successful melee attack
Sleep is pretty damn useful

Level 2 spells

Horror - Amazing spell, nothing else to say
Ghoul Touch paralyzes them upon successful melee attack
Stinking Cloud is a nice AOE spell
Web is quite good, but annoys the hell out of me
Melfs Acid Arrow is one of the only level 2 pure damage spells
Agannazars Scorcher is the other level 2 pure damage spell

Level 3

Hold Person is amazing. I didn't actually know it had an AOE effect until recently
Dire Charm is a nice breath of fresh air and is lots of fun
Slow is a Pretty fun spell although I rarely use it
Monster Summoning I is simply classic
Fireball
Skull Trap
Lightning
Flame Arrow - these 4 spells make up your core level 3 damage output

Yeah kinda what I expected, I almost wish they would have added more spells to the game in BG:EE. The current selection of spells are either amazing or practically useless. I mean have you tried to hit somethin with shocking grasp/chill/ghoul touch. Its almost impossible and for the slot you could do gaurenteed damage with other spells with simular effect. O well, I love the game, I guess I gotta just accept that the spell selection is fairly limited in terms of usefull spells.

Nostalgia

Well, now that I think about it lets extend this to other kinds of spells such as priest and druid spells. Which spells are rarely used and that people find fun? For example I love throwing on resist fire and throwing my warrior into a fireball =D

What other combo's do you guys find fun?

Here's another: entangle and lighting storm =D

szb

Web + Spider Swarm -> Spider is immune to the web effect
Doom + Blindness -> Take out one strong melee opponent from the fight
Doom + charm/dire charm -> can turn the tide of battle easily, and turning people against eachother is lots of fun
Doom/Greater Malison + Hold person -> awesome
Grease/Web + Fireball ->makes it easier to get more then 1 fireballs off
Mirror image + shield + stone skin (the more protection spells you can get the better) + fire shield -> let your opponents die as they try to hurt you

bbear

Blindness is one of the most underrated spells. Not only does it take out an opponent effectively, it also lowers its AC, thaco and saving throws each by 4 for 10 turns! Anything that is blinded in bg is as good as dead. Unlike sleep, blindness works in bg2 as well. The beauty about blindness is that almost all enemies in the bg saga do not have immunity against blind status. Even Demogorgon, Ravager, Melissan all can be blinded (use power word blind since they are immune to level 1 spell), transforming those almost impossible fights into shooting kobolds.

Skull trap is also good spell. Unlike a thief who is limited to 7 traps, the mage can have infinite (I once set 100+ against the final guardians leading to demogorgon, who have btw 60-90 MR and those traps only killed 4 of them outright).

Arabus13

I concur with several of the above posters. Blindness is awesome. Also, I never use slow (much rather use haste). The reasoning is your enemies can save vs slow, whereas haste does not (as it is a beneficial spell). Effectively, it's the same thing.

Horror is another great spell, especially when facing superior numbers. While mages and clerics can deal the pain, they really shine at making the enemy easy targets for your heavy hitters.

Oxford_Guy

Yeah kinda what I expected, I almost wish they would have added more spells to the game in BG:EE. The current selection of spells are either amazing or practically useless. I mean have you tried to hit somethin with shocking grasp/chill/ghoul touch

The touch spells are probably more useful if you're a fighter/mage...

Oxford_Guy

EnterHaerDalis said:

Yes, but Chill Touch also reduces the target's THAC0 by 2, which Shocking Grasp doesn't. Neither of them are that great, but of the two I prefer Chill Touch

Justarius

Nostalgia said:

Well, now that I think about it lets extend this to other kinds of spells such as priest and druid spells. Which spells are rarely used and that people find fun? For example I love throwing on resist fire and throwing my warrior into a fireball =D

What other combo's do you guys find fun?

Here's another: entangle and lighting storm =D

One option that can be a change for some is to play a priest type but as a pure offensive caster; no heals. There isn't the same level of pure damage but some good options nonetheless.

Lemernis

How about trying a cleric-mage, such that you combine priest and wizard spells? With both spell slot boosting rings equipped you'll have a plethora of spells to choose from. Get creative with the spell combos.

Or I sometimes play specialist mages to use only their school's spells. So for example, if you make a Conjurer protagonist he or she at casting level 1 will use only Grease, Find Familiar (and then whatever the familiar can cast), and Armor; Glitterdust, Melf's Acid Arrow, and Power Word: Sleep at level 2, etc.

And when I do this I typically also assemble a party of other specialist mages from among Xzar, Edwin, Xan, and Dynaheir... and now we can add Neera... and have them cast only their school's spells as well. For Neera this means using Nahal's exclusively, so you might want to think twice about it! (Or play her less strictly according to specialization.)

You'll probably still want to have a thief and healer in the party, though. It is doable without those classes (i.e., with six specialist mages) but the game becomes a bit more chore-like with respect to healing and traps; and Durlag's is a real bear.

April

If you want to add some spice to spellcasting, wait until the mod Spell Revisions is compatible with BGEE, it balances the spells so that all of them are viable.

That mod not being compatible with BGEE is the reason why I haven't started my BGEE run yet since after trying it I can't live with the unmodded and boring spell system. The best part of it is that it actually makes pure druids viable indoors.

psyact

I never use chill touch or shocking grasp by itself -- you blind the target first, then cast it. It usually hits in that scenario. It also makes more sense in a pure RP aspect -- a mage isn't just going to walk up to an enemy and touch him without a little protection.

bbear

April said:

If you want to add some spice to spellcasting, wait until the mod Spell Revisions is compatible with BGEE, it balances the spells so that all of them are viable.

That mod not being compatible with BGEE is the reason why I haven't started my BGEE run yet since after trying it I can't live with the unmodded and boring spell system. The best part of it is that it actually makes pure druids viable indoors.

I found the balancing a bit unbalance. Some of the weaker spells became op and the good spells got severely watered down.

Tresset

I KNOW!!!!!!!!!!! YOU SHOULD USE THE MIGHTIEST SUMMOONING SPELL IN THE GAME!
[SPOILER]Summon Cow[/spoiler]
That spell is LOTS OF TONS OF FUN!!!!