For my dual-wielding evil elf fighter/mage, which proficiency to take at level 6 and into BG2?

Oxford_Guy

I'm currently playing BGEE with a neutral evil female elf fighter/mage, who's currently level 5/4 and has the following proficiencies:

Longswords **
Two-weapon fighting ***

She's dual wielding the +2/+1 cold damage "Varscona" and +1/+3 vs undead "Harrower" long swords.

BTW she's armoured with the elven chain (CLUA-ed in after the encounter where it's meant to drop) and the Destoyer of the Hills belt (-4 vs., crushing, which complements the chain nicely) and buffs nicely with Blur, Mirror Image and the Strength spell (which takes her strength from 18/49 to 18/99). so doesn't miss a shield too much.

I do *not* want to spend any proficiency points in a ranged weapon, when she does need to go ranged, she uses the +3 Long of Marksmanship, and with that and the +1 elf bow bonus and high (currently 18, 19 later with the tome) Dex, she still hits well enough anyway.

I'm unsure what to take as my next (and last BGEE) weapon proficiency in BGEE. The main two choices for me would be Katanas or Scimitars. I guess Scimitars would be a better choice in BGEE (discounting Drizzt's, there is now a +2 one reasonably easily available mid-game, and also +1 scimitar-class weapons earlier, though there is a +1 Katana available too, and katanas do 1-10 vs. 1-8 damage), but in BG2 I really want to be able to use Dak'kon's Zerth Blade katana (for the extra spells: http://www.gamebanshee.com/showshot.php?/baldursgateii/equipment/images/dakkonszerthblade.jpg ), though the Belm scimitar (which adds +1 APR to the main hand, if wielded in the off-hand) would also be nice (http://www.gamebanshee.com/showshot.php?/baldursgateii/equipment/images/belmplus2.jpg).

I want to keep the same proficiencies in BG2EE as I had in BGEE for RP reasons (and am quite happy with keeping longswords as my first proficiency in BG2EE, am evil anyway, so could get Blackrazor mid-game at least, and like the idea of an elf having longswords from an RP point of view anyway), and will likely add *both* scimtars and katanas eventually, so it's basically a choice of which one to take proficiencies in *first*. This depends at least partly on which out of Dak'kon's Zerth Blade or Belm is easiest to get reasonably early on in BG2.

I'm not so familiar with BG2, but the Gamebanshee text gives these as locations for the Zerth Blade and Belm:

Dak'kon's Zerth Blade (WA2DAK)
Location(s)
Waukeen's Promenade (Adventurer's Mart) - Purchased from Deidre (collectors edition only - though I assume it *will* be in BG2EE), am not sure of the cost, though, which may make it tricky to get early on, if v.expensive?

Belm +2 (SW1H30)
Location(s)
Druid Grove - Found in the ogre tower inside a box

Which of these would be more easily obtainable quite early on in BG2? Are there any other choices (of katanas, scimitars or another melee weapon) I should be considering?

Oxford_Guy

BTW am selecting "Other", but just so I can see what others will vote...

JuliusBorisov

I would put it into katana because I feel your character likes to cast spells and the bonus from Dak'kon's Zerth Blade is very handy. It's easier to have Zerth Blade than to get Belm.

Moreover, you'll absolutely love one katana you find in BG2)))

Personally, I like to take both: you'll have enough time time to spend proficiency points first into katana and later into wakizashi.

I always use this logic.

Every samurai carried 2 weapons. Along with a Katana, a shorter sword was worn by most of the warrior class. By personal choice that sword could be a wakizashi, or a shoto. Both of which are similar, but just smaller, another choice of sword is a tanto, which is smaller still. Both weapons together are called the daisho and they represented the social and political influence and personal honour of the Samurai. Also it may be convenience, for fighting, a smaller sword may be the sensible choice for a close quarters battle.

For me, other weapon choices lack this feeling.

Debaser

I'm voting scimitar because Usano's blade is easy to obtain along with Daystar giving you two +4 weapons early on to kill Kangaxx with. And also because I feel Usano's blade is superior to Celestial Fury. Also Dakkon's Zerth Blade is overrated IMO.

Madhax

I voted Scimitars for more variety. In my opinion Dak'kon's Zerth blade is, while powerful, somewhat overrated and not worth focusing on. Belm is just game-shattering, though I would perhaps only spend one point in Scimitars unless you also find one for your main-hand.

AlexDeLarge

Kind of a minor dilemma to warrant a thread of it's own, you're also missing the point. You don't get focus on proficiency points for offhand, always for mainhand. I finished my last SCS Insane run with Celestial Fury (later Foebane) mainhand/Belm offhand. Had 0 prof in scimitars for the entire game, but did mad dps with my kensage nevertheless, all that matters is your main hand. In which case Belm is the optimal choice by far. So if you go for Katana prof, you go because of CF, not shitty Dakkon Zerth.

Oxford_Guy

AlexDeLarge said:

Kind of a minor dilemma to warrant a thread of it's own,

Well, it's a big deal for my fighter/mage, and as I level slowly need to make the most of my profiency points. It doesn't hurt anyone that I've created a thread to discuss this (I've already learned somethings, inlcuding from you, thanks), so why not? :-)

AlexDeLarge said:

you're also missing the point. You don't get focus on proficiency points for offhand, always for mainhand. I finished my last SCS Insane run with Celestial Fury (later Foebane) mainhand/Belm offhand. Had 0 prof in scimitars for the entire game, but did mad dps with my kensage nevertheless, all that matters is your main hand. In which case Belm is the optimal choice by far. So if you go for Katana prof, you go because of CF, not shitty Dakkon Zerth.

I know you don't get any extra attacks from proficiency points for the off-hand, but you'd still get the to +1 hit and +2 damage bonus from 2 pips, at least (or is that not the case?), and I'd like to do at least *some* damage with the off-hand.

I can see some merit in perhaps only putting a single pip into scimitars (for Belm), though. Also, I know the Zerth blade is not that great as a *weapon*, but the extra self-buffs this could give my fighter mage would be great, also I could always swap it out for another off-hand weapon (e.g. Belm) when the bonus spells are used-up.

As I said, in the long run I'd like to use *both* Katanas and Scimitars, though it sounds like Katanas may be the better bet to put proficiency points into first, partly because there are better main hand Katanas(?) and the Zerth blade is easy to get early on than Belm, by the sound of it.

AlexDeLarge

Mate, you're playing multiclass, not dual, which means you will have plenty of points to specialize into whatever you desire. My recommendation is to put 2 in Katana asap, as you will steamroll SoA once you find CF. Whatever points you have left, feel free to dump into scimitars or 3rd point in dual wield, it makes very little difference.

Note: you said you play Evil, in which case you will find a very nice surprise by the very end of SoA, weapon wise

Oxford_Guy

AlexDeLarge said:

Mate, you're playing multiclass, not dual, which means you will have plenty of points to specialize into whatever you desire. My recommendation is to put 2 in Katana asap, as you will steamroll SoA once you find CF.

Okay, well it's looking like my next pip will likely go into Katanas.

BTW could anyone confirm, does the off-hand weapon still get the +1 to hit/+2 damage from specialisation, if not the extra 1/2 attack?

Whatever points you have left, feel free to dump into scimitars or 3rd point in dual wield, it makes very little difference.

I already have 3 pips in dual-wield

Note: you said you play Evil, in which case you will find a very nice surprise by the very end of SoA, weapon wise

Cool! :-)

Oxford_Guy

BTW one thing that's not been mentioned is that scimitars have both slashing variants (scimitars and ninja-tos) *and* piercing (wakizashis), which could potentially be useful in some situations, given the high penalties for slashing weapons against plate (-3 slashing, +0 piercing), full plate (-4 slashing, -3 piercing) and even chain mail armour (-2 slashing, +0 piercing)... In fact there is *no* armour where slashing is better than piercing, though blunt is better than both for most "heavy" armours, apart from splint). See: http://www.pocketplane.net/volothamp/chap6.htm

Lemernis

I will be going with katana myself, for Celestial Fury.

elminster

Break from the pack. Go with long swords and clubs

CoM_Solaufein

Katana. You'll have lots of fun with Celestial Fury and Daystar, two of my favorite swords.

iKrivetko

bengoshi said:

could be a wakizashi, or a shoto. Both of which are similar

A shoto isn't a kind of a sword, it's a general term for the shorter weapon in the daisho. If you paired a wakizashi and a tanto, the tanto would be the shoto and the wakizashi, being the longer weapon, would be the daito.

bengoshi said:

another choice of sword is a tanto, which is smaller still.

Wouldn't call it a sword though. A dagger is quite more befitting.

Oxford_Guy

elminster said:

Break from the pack. Go with long swords and clubs

Well I already have long swords, Gnasher is about the only decent club, but I'm assuming you're not serious...

Dazzu

Get flails at some point. The magic damage from the Ages can ignore certain spell protects.

elminster

Oxford_Guy said:

elminster said:

Break from the pack. Go with long swords and clubs

Well I already have long swords, Gnasher is about the only decent club, but I'm assuming you're not serious...

Only partially serious.

Oxford_Guy

Okay, have now (finally) got the point where I can level up to level 6 fighter (mage 5) and take my final proficiency in BGEE, as I said I'm currently like this:

Longswords **
Two-weapon fighting ***

She's dual wielding the +2/+1 cold damage "Varscona" and +1/+3 vs undead "Harrower" long swords.

I now need to decide whether to put a point into Scimitars or Katanas (neither of which I will use in BGEE, this is solely to prepare for BG2EE, as I want to keep the same profiencies.

For Katanas I guess this primarily be for the Zerth Blade and Celestial Fury, for Scimitars for Belm (for the extra attack with my main hand) and Usuno's Blade. I'm evil, though, so am perhaps likely to want to use the Black Razor long sword in my main hand for quite while, so are Scimitars then going to be more useful first, for the extra attack? I guess ultimately I will get proficiencies in both, but which to go for first? Am currently still leaning towards Katanas, as the Zerth blade could be handy early on... Any final recommendations (not flails or hammers, please!)

Debaser

@Oxford_Guy - I still say Usano's blade does better damage than Celestial Fury. You pair that with Belm and it's a no brainer. But...both Katana and Scimitars work well. I just prefer weapons that can damage creatures like Kangaxx off the bat. They typically hit more and do more damage with +4 Enchantments. The base damage average for CF is the SAME calculated out to Mean Averages as Usano's Blade...and Then with it's electrical damage and higher enchantment Usano's can rock tougher monsters.

HugoRune

Either celestial fury and zerth blade or go for flails for flail of the ages and defender of easthaven. I think cf's stun effect is just unbeatable as long as enemies are likely to fail their saves but all in all, the flails are probably the better combination. FoA stays fantastic for the rest of the game and as nice as the zerth blade is for fighter/mages, Defender of easthaven has probably the better passive effect. Still, i like the katanas for style.

moopy

Flails

Flail of Ages.

JTM

I would say scimitars...and that is purely based on your given reasons for katana's being the use of Dakkon Zerth's blade. The reason is if you are going to use DK's blade for spells, you can simply equip it in your off-hand, pick your spells, sleep and then buff before your next fight and then remove the blade and replace with 'Belm' for example. It's not necessary for you to be 'proficient' in Katana's in order to utilize the extra spells feature of the weapon afaik...Specialization in long swords and scimitars will do you very well through to the end of the game.

Eventually as you progress higher and are able to memorize more spells/level, you may not even need the use of DK's blade as you may find that you can memorize an adequate number of spells for buffing, etc...

Xavioria

Flail, or hammer. I figure it'd be great for your main character to have a weapon that can handle any situation... especially when creatures like Golems come at you from behind...

DinsdalePiranha

Belm. equip Zerth Blade before rest, memorize spells, cast them, change back to main weapon.

or better yet, install BG1 style weapon proficiencies from tweak pack (because variety rocks) and go blunt weapons.

Aasimar069

Bastard swords, if you want to kill the wolfwere boss.

Djimmy

Scimitars all the way. One extra attack is a very nice bonus. @DinsdalePiranha is right about Zerth Blade, and Celestial Fury is +3 so your THAC0 penalty will not be that big. Later in the game(BG2) you will have both Scimitar and Katana proficiencies either way. There will be enough stars(points) to specialize in War Hammers if you wish to use Crom Faeyr even later in the game.

Since your character's alignment is evil, you would probably like to go the path of the evil in hell tests at the end of BG2. This will grant you +3 more strength(+1 when battling Sarevok and +2 when putting the Wrath Tear) so you number of attacks will increase. That and the Improved Haste(or GWW if you wish 10 attacks per round). The only thing you have to figure out is how to increase your THAC0 even further. As a purist, I always choose to utialize the Spectral Brand's +5(scimitar aquired from Aesgareth the cambion in Watcher's Keep) special ability: Armor piercing strike(Raises the THAC0 bonus to +10 for 3 rounds.).

And also scimitars look awesome, not that katanas don't.

Hope that all of this makes any sense.

mjs

something with blunt damage, flails or hammers work well with weapons available in SoA and ToB. plus clay golems

Oxford_Guy

Aasimar069 said:

Bastard swords, if you want to kill the wolfwere boss.

If it's just for one battle, hardly seems worth taking a proficiency? An elf fighter/mage using a sword without proficiency gets a net -1 THAC0, which isn't so bad