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I am making a Dual Class Berserker / Thief (Like Gatsu from Berserk)

DebaserDebaser Member Posts: 669
Making a new character...I'm think True Neutral or Chaotic Neutral Berserker...who duals to the Thief. I'm a big Kentaro Miura Fan...and I've read Berserk (manga) now for going on 17 years.

The caveat is he's going to obtain Grand Mastery in Two Handed Swords.

In BG1 I was thinking

++Two Handed Sword
++Two Weapon Style

Then Add

+ Cross Bow @ LLVL3

Bump to +++++Two Handed Sword over LVL's 6-12

And dual at 13 for the last 1/2 attack bonus.

***EDIT*** I forgot that he would only be able to take one + in a range weapon as a Berserker...

Next I was thinking I'd take + in daggers and + in single weapon style AND + in Darts Then So he would have access to throwing knives and darts like in the book while regaining his Berserker levels.

As a thief I was thinking he'd put points into:


100 Hide In Shadows
100 Move Silently
100 Detect Illusions (this one is key)

Then I was thinking between the flame trap, time trap and use any item abilities he'd have the arm cannon thing down, and enough attacks at a greater speed to compensate for the loss of greater whirlwind...and Carsomyr! Which will help him dispel magic and resist magic as he detects illusions.

Anyone a fan of the manga or Anime? I know this is probably not optimal gear spec wise...but I wanted to role play this one. Also...with use any item can you back-stab with weapons outside of the thief class?





Post edited by Debaser on
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Comments

  • DebaserDebaser Member Posts: 669
    edited December 2012
    I edited the post above, I had forgotten about the the one +Crossbow Pip limit of a Beserker. I will just get him the Crossbow of Speed to compensate in BG1, also I typed the first message from my phone...apologies for typos. They're fixed now.
  • jfliederjflieder Member Posts: 115
    This is an underrated show! Guts is a one man wrecking crew. Perhaps after you achieve UAI, you cast Tenser's Transformation and/or Improved Haste from scrolls (you could get this from items as well as scrolls) to put on an extra effort against the big baddies- Guts rose his game for the tough opponents!
  • jfliederjflieder Member Posts: 115
    Ever think about a female spitfire fighter/berserker/other type for a Caska character? They made a good team for the battles that they fought alongside each other.
  • DebaserDebaser Member Posts: 669
    edited December 2012
    @jflieder Caska would maybe be a great Thief / Fighter (Dual Class) Blade or Cavalier? (She always rode in combat) I was thinking about a solo hardcore run for Gatsu, but then after the shows run ends...in the manga Caska is unfortunately catatonic mostly and then eventually childlike and traumatized for the next 200+ issues of the series after where the Anime leaves them off. =/ If you've never read the full run up to the current issue I seriously recommend it and and can send you links to where translated runs are up for free and updated as new issues come out. But maybe I could have her as whatever is best in BG1 and then Shadowkeeper her into a Jester in BG2? She always inspired the troops so maybe Blade would be best. Then you change her to represent her being traumatized.

    It's gone over 300 issues and it's constantly getting better and better. Unlike most comics in it's genre the world of Berserk to my mind is kind of limitless without being cheesy...and when he turns into the black swordsman later on down the line searching for revenge against the apostles he's just insane with anger and willing to do pretty much anything to beat tougher opponents.



    Post edited by Debaser on
  • DebaserDebaser Member Posts: 669
    @jflieder

    If I played her as a Cavalier I could have her "Fall" as a Paladin too...would work.
  • DebaserDebaser Member Posts: 669
    If you played her as a blade you could also maybe dual her to a Mage...and say losing her mind gave her supernatural powers...which she gets...but can't really control at all....hrmn. It's a cool idea I just wonder which classes would really nail the spirit of her right.
  • jfliederjflieder Member Posts: 115
    @Debaser touché. Yes, I have only seen the show and have not read any of the manga. My roommate had the show on DVD and recommended the manga but I've never gotten around to it.

    And yea, I suppose Caska could go either pint sized beast or inspiration provider. I like her better as a fighter/thief than as a blade due to the lack of magic on her part (I could see Griffith as more blade compatible with his luck/voodoo powers/egg necklace). Fallen cavalier would be clever!
  • ZanathKariashiZanathKariashi Member Posts: 2,869
    edited December 2012
    The Golden age was my favorite arc. Blackswordsman, Lost children, and the tower arcs were also pretty good...but after that....it loses a lot of it's charm. I'm still hoping it turns around but but it's been pretty meh, lately.

    Might be better to give him 3-4 levels of thief (with heavy stealth, and a bit of picking locks), then dual into a berserker (just shadow keeper it in, since you should be able to dual into a kit anyway by the pnp rules (only one though)). He has a little bit of training in stealth, knife throwing, and lockpicking that Judau taught him, but he's almost exclusively a straight up warrior besides that.

    If I was building him in 3rd edition, 4 fighter, 3 rogue, 3 Barbarian, rest frenzied berserker.
  • moopymoopy Member Posts: 938
    I'm not sure he is any thief. In all the places a thief might have been useful for being stealthy or opening locked doors, he just busted out in the middle of everyone and killed everything, and smashed the door off its hinges, normally taking the wall with it.

    I mean there was that one time he was like an assassin, but that was early on.

    As Zanath said it'd definitely be a Thief->Mostly Berserker and not Berserker-Mostly Thief
  • DebaserDebaser Member Posts: 669
    @ZanathKariashi

    I totally know what you mean, it's slow waiting for new issues to come out...but I think if a new reader went with it from start to where it is now, it wouldn't feel that way...I reread it recently and it didn't feel disjointed or slow paced...it just comes out so slowly due to the art quality and the scheduling being so high and demanding. There's maybe six issues a year is the result.

    I everyone loves the golden age but he Black Swordsman Arc is my favorite...you get into the core of who he is. Cursed...hunted by demons wanting to eat him...desperate for an answer to Caska's problem...but so angry that he's not really in control of himself. Revenge is all that matters...in recent issues he's decided that trying to help Caska is more important than revenge on Griffith. So it's more of a sea change with a new larger cast replacing what The Band of the Hawks was. Golden Age is setting you up for so much heartbreak and motivation...but characters like Skull Knight are super interesting to me and they come later.

    Also I would love to build him with 3e or higher rules...but I feel Berserker for the rage ability to thief for all the high level abilities that can mimic the arm cannon and time trap, etc to make him move faster is probably closest to how he is in the manga / show. He's got to feel a bit superhuman, that's what makes him Guts...but magic and demons have to be a problem he thinks his way around rather than just relying purely on his sword. I do think he should have Darts as well as Knives exactly for the reason you mention.

    @jflieder I see Caska as a Lawful Neutral...a soldier who is dedicated, but not really that concerned with morality or self interest. Maybe a Jester from the start due to the nature of what happens to her later...but she's a tougher character to plan out. Making her a Paladin isn't quite right when I go to draw her up because she's just...more loyal than benevolent towards others. Maybe just a straight fighter who can tank while he off tanks...but if I made her, I don't want her to be boring is all.
  • DebaserDebaser Member Posts: 669
    @moopy later on he's got a replacement for his missing arm....throwing knives, a repeater crossbow built into his arm....and he stealths about after the apostles breaking into their houses trying to draw them out of hiding into their true forms. So...I was thinking Thief gives you Detect Illusion and Use Any Item...so now you get Carsomyr which can dispel...he gets Avoid Death (which is what he does...he just constantly beats the odds...) Time trap...and Exploding trap for killing multiple enemies with superhuman speed and emulating the arm cannon....AND you get Greater Evasion, where he dodges or blocks with his massive sword as the black swordsman....in the show he never really gets to that point of being such a crazy death machine...in the comics...he just keeps getting angrier and scarier.
  • ZanathKariashiZanathKariashi Member Posts: 2,869
    Yeah, the skills are there, just after a point they become less useful since most of the time he's in a hurry. Though he still can be quite stealthy when the need arises.
  • moopymoopy Member Posts: 938
    @debaser
    Yeah, I read the manga and I get what you are saying. He has just never seemed like a thief to me.

    When I think of him I normally think of him in the berserker armor and just an instinct driven rage fueled death machine.

    Barbarian seems like him the most to me with the larger hit die and the damage resistance.

    I mean, I guess he should be a Berserker/Barbarian/Thief/Monk/DeathMachine so, Berserker/Thief works.
  • DebaserDebaser Member Posts: 669
    @Moopy @ZanathKaraishi

    I really want the detect illusion ability to be a focus when he goes thief....that whole...seen magic at worst...fear of the demonic aspect really works there...he's always trying to root out the supernatural so he can kill it by default either way.

    With Caska...I keep coming back to Lawful Neutral Fighter with ++ in Single weapon fighting and ++ in longsword. High Charisma being a factor because Guts is again...scary.
  • DebaserDebaser Member Posts: 669
    edited December 2012
    @moopy @ZanathKaraishi @jfielder

    Maybe I should do the Berserk Cast? Or maybe see if anyone on the board would do a multiplayer campaign around these ideas?

    Guts - (Chaotic Neutral) Berserker / Thief (Dualed at 13)

    Caska (Lawful Neutral) - Swashbuckler / Fighter? With Find Traps lock Pick Maxed Out.

    Griffith (Neutral Evil) - Elf Fighter / Mage (Revering his dark gods in a Neutral Evil way, always obsessed with Power) (I know Griffith isn't an Elf, but he looks like one...so this kind of fits to me, plus that bonus to longswords and bows totally makes sense)

    Skull Knight (Lawful Evil) - Blackguard, twisted by centuries of fighting the Apostles and eventually becoming one of them.

    Nosferatu Zodd (Chaotic Evil) - (Half Orc since we don't have vampires) Fighter / Cleric given immortality and unholy powers by his dark gods.

    Judeau (Neutral Good) - Blade (This fits...after really thinking about it) Just make this guy about Darts and Knives all the way, maybe give him short swords and defensive spin.


  • ZanathKariashiZanathKariashi Member Posts: 2,869
    edited December 2012
    Don't really see the bows. Griffith is a master swordsman, first and foremost...I don't recall ever actually seeing him use a ranged weapon. Maybe ** Longsword, ** single weapon style. Alignment-wise...Griffith wasn't really evil, just ruthless, till AFTER all that other stuff happened. So True Neutral with evil leanings, slowly moving towards neutral evil after shat hit the fan, and finally swan-diving into the deep end at the end. He wasn't really obsessed with power, just fulfilling his dream, and became more and more committed to achieving it, since doing otherwise would betray all those that had fallen supporting him. The turning point came after that whole ho yay, yandere moment screwed everything up. Falling into despair, the jealously, and losing everything was what ultimately pushed him into Evil territory. (He also doesn't have any magic at all, other then wearing the Behelit that tilts the odds in his favor..well..till..then)

    Caska's basically the same fighting style-wise as Griffith, single weapon, longsword, but weaker and less agile. Though she was shown using a crossbow once...so..there's always that. And I don't recall her displaying any thief-like abilities at any time..though if Judau taught Gutts, it's a safe bet he taught her something as well..maybe...but they never showed anything to even hint at it. So..basically fighter, just a few levels behind and/or less str.

    Judau's more of a swashbuckler then any of the other characters, he doesn't display any magic (unless having a very small pouch of healing salve counts), so a blade doesn't fit as well as a swashy does. And he's definitely the skills man of the group. None of the Hawks really jump out at me as "good". They're all basically some form of neutral, except a few jackasses like Corkus, who are or at the border for evil (just because he's comic relief doesn't change the fact he was a leader of a small band of robbers who tended to murder their victims, before the Hawks took them down). While they're decent people overall, they still do a lot of bad things for bad people if that's where the money is.

    Nah, Zodd is a Blackguard, through and through. Though he does look A LOT like a half-orc in his base form (He was human...at some point)...so..just race swap him (and not having access to his ridiculously huge swords and dual-axes would just be wrong) (he's not really immortal, he just doesn't age and has a ridiculously high capacity for regenerating wounds, and probably some straight up damage resistance.)

    Skull Knight is debatable...I'd actually say he was probably Lawful evil to begin with (depending on if that theory about his past is correct), and became more lawful neutral, after he was snared into the web of fate and effectively lost the ability to act meaningfully outside of the proper time.


    And no, other then trailer haven't seen them yet. Though I spotted the first one while Christmas shopping the other day, so I'm gonna grab it once payday gets here. I have the full anime collection (*sigh* So much potential wasted) and all the currently released english volumes (and all the scans up to current), so I'll pick it up, just been busy with other stuff lately.
  • DebaserDebaser Member Posts: 669
    @Zanathkaishi The link I posted above is the whole first movie....if you want to see it in slightly lower res before you buy.
  • MornmagorMornmagor Member Posts: 1,160
    Ah, Berserk, one simply cannot get enough of it.

    I can tell you what i am, but then it wouldn't be a secret, would it? :p
  • moopymoopy Member Posts: 938
    @Debaser

    To your knowledge has anyone subbed the second OVA yet?
  • DebaserDebaser Member Posts: 669
    @moopy yes!

    http://www.pinoyanime.tv/berserk-golden-age-arc-ii-the-capture-of-doldrey/

    this is a subtitled version but it's kinda...bootleg translation level...the english is a little clunky at times, but it's definitely watchable my friend.

    I'm going to look into movie three next. See if it's out there.
  • DebaserDebaser Member Posts: 669
    @Mornmagor NICE Skull Knight Avatar!
  • moopymoopy Member Posts: 938
    @Debaser
    Thanks, haddn't found that subbed yet. Doldrey battle foooooooooooooooooor tttttttthhhhhhhhhhheeeeeeeeee wiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiinnnnnnn
  • DebaserDebaser Member Posts: 669
    @moopy it's awesome EXCEPT in this version when he kills Bascone...they cut out the whole sword from Zodd bit. That just doesn't happen...I think they had to condense a lot because of time...the original series was something like 22 episodes, and the comic has even more crap that got cut for that....but all I'm enjoying it tonight.

    I still can't decide if Caska should be a Swashy that duals at level 6 to Fighter...or a fighter who duals to something else. But I've already made a ton of portraits to choose from.

    The Doldrey battle is still...wicked great.
  • moopymoopy Member Posts: 938
    @Debaser

    That is a bit disappointing. I thought one of the points of the OVAs was to be more true to the manga, oh well.
  • DebaserDebaser Member Posts: 669
    edited December 2012
    @moopy, well it's closer in some ways, and slightly different / condensed due to time in others. What I'm really hoping for is movies from the other arcs. Because as much as I love The Golden Age...BUT where the first Anime ended was the mother of all mind-screws. =/

    Maybe I should do Shierke, Ishidoro, Farnese and Serpico, and make Caska mentally ill?
  • moopymoopy Member Posts: 938
    Gram the Sword of Grief might be more fun than Carsomyr. Seeing how his sword has gotten stronger through demon blood or whatever.
  • DebaserDebaser Member Posts: 669
    That really fits!
  • DebaserDebaser Member Posts: 669
    I've made Ishidoro, Shierke, Griffith, Caska and Guts so far....I'm gonna see about Zodd.
  • moopymoopy Member Posts: 938
    I'm not trying to rain on your parade, because do what makes you happy.

    But personally my Guts would kill Griffith... then I'd raise him and kill him again.
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