So... how one player has utlized Rasaad (spoilers!)
Lemernis
Member, Moderator Posts: 4,318
I know there's been a number of threads about Rasaad, most of them complaining that he's weak, etc. But now that I'm in chapter 5 and went to the Cloud Peaks, etc. I feel I can comment a little more on him.
The main thing I wanted speak to is choice of equipment for him. The way I see the main choices for improving him with gear:
- cursed belt of Strength
- gauntlets of Ogre Power
- gauntlets of Dexterity
- Monk bracers that reduce THACO by 2.
Cursed belt? I can't bring myself to reduce his Int to 6. Silly of me, I know. But I can't. Ditto for any other character who is reasonably intelligent.
Gloves of ogre power? In my party I decided they were best utilized by Viconia. It was very tempting to have Rassad use them, though...
That left me with the choice between reducing Rasaad's AC vs. THACO. I chose to have him equip the bracers that improve THACO.
With Rasaad now at level 7 and equipped with the Shield amulet, his boots, and Ring of the Princes, I have his AC to -1 and his THACO at 12. His 16 Strength and 16 Dexterity are pretty respectable to begin with. So he's actually doing pretty decent damage. And he doesn't get hit much.
I concede that Rasaad wasn't terribly effective early on. So I sent him at mages, hoping he could manage to stun them. Also to tie up archers in melee. Every once in a blue moon he would actually stun a mage, which was rather gratifying to see, actually. But in all events, he didn't really get hurt much using this general approach. I deliberately kept him out of the way of the enemy heavy hitters.
Now with Rasaad in BG city he's stunning mages regularly and finishing them off with his fists. He's actually become a quite useful character. And I still have the remainder of chapter 5, chapter 6, ToSC, and chapter 7 to complete. When he reaches level 8 I'll hit the XP cap and his THACO will then be 11. Which against mages is going to hit. Especially after my own mages cast Blindness on them. (Related question: Do the penalties on opponents from Glitterdust and Blindness stack?)
So, in sum, he's a capable and interesting addition to the party when thoughtfully equipped and utilized.
With respect to equipment, what are you all doing with him? Giving him massive Strength? Giving him 18 Dex to get his AC as low as possible? Or trying to get his THACO as low as you can?
The main thing I wanted speak to is choice of equipment for him. The way I see the main choices for improving him with gear:
- cursed belt of Strength
- gauntlets of Ogre Power
- gauntlets of Dexterity
- Monk bracers that reduce THACO by 2.
Cursed belt? I can't bring myself to reduce his Int to 6. Silly of me, I know. But I can't. Ditto for any other character who is reasonably intelligent.
Gloves of ogre power? In my party I decided they were best utilized by Viconia. It was very tempting to have Rassad use them, though...
That left me with the choice between reducing Rasaad's AC vs. THACO. I chose to have him equip the bracers that improve THACO.
With Rasaad now at level 7 and equipped with the Shield amulet, his boots, and Ring of the Princes, I have his AC to -1 and his THACO at 12. His 16 Strength and 16 Dexterity are pretty respectable to begin with. So he's actually doing pretty decent damage. And he doesn't get hit much.
I concede that Rasaad wasn't terribly effective early on. So I sent him at mages, hoping he could manage to stun them. Also to tie up archers in melee. Every once in a blue moon he would actually stun a mage, which was rather gratifying to see, actually. But in all events, he didn't really get hurt much using this general approach. I deliberately kept him out of the way of the enemy heavy hitters.
Now with Rasaad in BG city he's stunning mages regularly and finishing them off with his fists. He's actually become a quite useful character. And I still have the remainder of chapter 5, chapter 6, ToSC, and chapter 7 to complete. When he reaches level 8 I'll hit the XP cap and his THACO will then be 11. Which against mages is going to hit. Especially after my own mages cast Blindness on them. (Related question: Do the penalties on opponents from Glitterdust and Blindness stack?)
So, in sum, he's a capable and interesting addition to the party when thoughtfully equipped and utilized.
With respect to equipment, what are you all doing with him? Giving him massive Strength? Giving him 18 Dex to get his AC as low as possible? Or trying to get his THACO as low as you can?
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Comments
Also, I think it's best to focus purely on THAC0 with Rasaad....and you should always give him that Strength belt unless you have a drastically better use for it
Next run I want to try equipping Drizzt's Twinkle scimitar and see how he fares with that.
The Cursed Belt - 19 Strength, 6 Int.
The Monk Only Bracers - +2 Thac0
Ring of Protection +1
Scimitar of Rasaad +2
Cloak of Non-Detection
Horn of Kazaroth
All manner of enchanted darts.
Now
One + in Single Weapon Fighting Style (For -1 AC Bonus using a Scimitar)
One + in Darts.
When he needs the AC I swap to the weapon...if he needs an enchanted weapon I swap to the weapon...I usually start off ranged with darts and then have him paralying palm someone.
He's not weak, but his Constitution sucks. I have the Claw of Kazaroth to Neera though as I feel she benefits the most from the saving throw bonuses due to her wild mageness.
I would have given the belt to Jaheria and almost did so she could keep the gauntlets of Dexterity. I may swap back to that. instead she has ogre gauntlets and Minsc has the DEX Guants at the moment.
Before that I had Rasaad with the Orge Gaunts and he was fine. I don't see why everyone thinks he's weak...he's just not a tank.
I
Because his THAC0 and damage output are inferior to an average Fighter, yet 'tis his ostensibly exclusive and primary role to be a front-line combatant.
Because his AC is worse than what can be achieved by a Fighter or Cleric at level 1.
Because he attacks only twice per turn, something a dual-wielding character or character with a bow can outperform or match with ease.
Because his HP scales like a Cleric, but he has no spells or heavy armour or awesome Maces, Flails or Warhammers to use.
Because his saves are good, but his HP isn't really sufficient to handle any of the nastier spells or traps anyway.
Because he's fast enough to be a scout, but has so few skill points compared to a thief and, again, no spells compared to the Cleric that he can either be almost decent at hiding or almost decent at detecting, but not disarming, traps, and yet he is
Because he cannot hurt creatures that require magical weapons without using a weapon.
Because he cannot dual wield, use two handed weapons or otherwise increase his damage output above 2 attacks per round.
Because whilst he can theoretically use a Sling, his dexterity and strength are mediocre and he can't attack multiple times with it, making him even worse than a self-buffing Cleric at it.
Because even with micro-management, he performs no task particularly better than any other non-mage character can with less micromanagement.
Because he dies more often than Neera, the D4 hit-die Wild Mage with a tendency to self-immolate.
Because his THAC0 cannot be improved with Fist enhancements, and his gauntlet slot is the only means by which to meaningfully improve his THAC0, meaning either Gauntlets of Ogre Strength or Brawling cannot be used and he's stuck with a THAC0 worse than most other frontline fighters in the game.
Because 1D10+1 damage at level 8 is not actually very powerful when an 18/01 Strength Fighter with Sling Specialisation deals 7-10 damage, just as often, at range, and can upgrade their sling and bullets together to +5 to hit and to damage as well.
Because having him in your party before he's capped or nearly capped is actually moderately worse than not having him in your party due to the frequency of him dying.
Because he cannot wear a helmet, meaning he will inevitably receive a critical hit from some source, most likely severely wounding or killing him due to his ~39 average HP at level 8.
Because in order to function as a Decent character, he requires magical items which would turn most other fighters and clerics into "Great" characters.
Because he cannot, at level 6, handle a group of five Gibberlings without assistance.
I like his character, I like his story - actually I think his is the best plotline of the new characters - but he really is weak, from a character optimisation perspective - as a damage dealer (he's just not a damage dealer), a tank (he's just not a tank), a nuker (he's just not a caster), a party supporter (he's just not a Bard or a Cleric), a ranged damage dealer (he's just not a ranged combatant), a scout (he's just not a thief), a crowd controller (he's just not a caster), or a mule (he's just not a half-orc).
The question remains; just what is he?
I have him use his fists in order to get 2 attacks per round and Stunning Blow (which he can deliver only with fists and feet, right?) Even so, a scimmy +2 is pretty badass.
I gave him profs in Single Weapon Style and Katana. He comes with a pip in Scimitar/Wazikashi/Ninjato. I gave him a katana +1 (1d10 +1) but it has remained sheathed in his inventory because that only gives 1 attack per round--whereas his fists are 1d10 at 2 attacks per round. But moreover with his dukes he can use Stunning Blow, which imho is his most useful skill.
Having played around a little more, I will definitely have him use the Gauntlets of Ogre Power after all. His THACO actually is better by 1 with those versus wearing the Glimmering Bands bracers (improves THACO by 2). And of course he doles out considerably higher damage with 18/00 Strength. Viconia can get along without the Gauntlets of Ogre Power. I mainly have her casting spells anyway.
That's in BG:EE of course. By the time Rasaad hits his stride in BG2:EE he could be kicking even Dorn's ass if he wished. In that sense, he's an investment in BG:EE.
I think as with any of the weaker classes or kits, there is still a lot of fun to be had in using them. It lies in identifying the characters' greatest strengths and utilizing them to their fullest potential.
For Rasaad in BG:EE it's the Monk's Stunning Blow. For Rasaad to be most effective with it, he needs to seek the targets most vulnerable to that attack, and also the ones who most need to be neutralized: mages and archers.
Now, it is undeniably true that a spellcaster can actually be much more effective that Rasaad in shutting down mages. Ditto archers. But the emphasis I'm choosing here is: how can you use Rasaad most effectively? Not whether another particular class is more effective--because we have already established that they are.
When you send Rasaad after a mage (or archer if there are no mages left) that frees up your spellcasters to apply their energies toward other targets. And used in this way, Rasaad is not a liability to the party. It's true that there are many more powerful and effective NPCs you could choose. Yes, indeed. But you can still use him satisfactorily and enjoy the character.
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Addendum: I think I would rather have Rasaad for his mage-stunning ability than, say, Garrick or Eldoth... most of the time, in the overall balance, that is. Perhaps over Safana and Branwen as well--although those two I add to the party for their class skills first and foremost. I.e., if I need an extra thief, or want a departure from the other priests in the game.
I would not say that Rasaad is more useful than the multi-classes, of course. Coran, Montaron, Yeslick, Tiax, and Quayle all have more to recommend them overall. So sheerly in terms of pure effectiveness--i.e., from a totally utilitarian perspective--Rasaad is perhaps only standing taller than Garrick, and perhaps Eldoth. And even that is debatable, lol.
And yes, Rasaad will undoubtedly be much improved in BG2, and can be used in BG:EE, but whilst I'd never suggest not using any character, he needs to be approached with the knowledge that he is a flawed character who needs a little extra love to thrive, rather than the expectation that he is a viable character out of the box, because otherwise one is going to be sorely disappointed, especially a beginner to the series or someone who's not on top with their micromanagement.
Edit: Incidentally, Rasaad's a good choice for the +2 Ring of Protection; I went with the cursed belt, THAC0 bracers and just the Protection ring and his boots, he was at a comfortable -2 AC or so, enough to see him through Durlag's with only one or two deaths.
And the next question that comes to my mind is, is that flawed? Or does that weakness at lower levels serve as a balance against how enormously powerful a Monk becomes later on in the saga...
In all seriousness, yeah, you can make him serviceable. But just about anyone at a similar level and with similar gear is probably going to rip Rasaad apart.
With a monk, the feeble period is longer than for a mage, only just about becoming a decent character at the end of BG1, so it's a fair point that the feeble period may be too long for the monk class to be worth much if BG1 were a stand-alone game. However, I think the point of persisting with a low-level monk is roleplaying continuity into BG2, where a monk gets into the higher levels where s/he has really powerful abilities. So yes, I think it's justifiable as a balance against later strengths ... but only when we regard the BG series as a whole.
Or as a sacrificial pickpocketter of Drizzt, his most amusing use so far in my games.
I have him identify items (mainly this about convenience); carry items such as gems, potions, and scrolls that tend to clutter up inventories; cast a few choice spells; and sing Bard song. And he can pickpocket, as well, as mentioned.
Oh, and I have him use wands too. As a rule, myself, I generally avoid wands since they seem almost unbalancingly overpowered (instantaneous and nearly endless repeated castings--a wand of paralyzation, especially, almost makes the game too easy ). But for Garrick I make an exception.
I've always assumed that Garrick is of more use singing during battle than firing a bow (after he's exhausted his memorized spells). But I've never confirmed.
Way, way back in the day, in vanilla BG1, wasn't there a bug that allowed bards to backstab while invisible? I distinctly recall that anyway. I always took advantage of that (it made some sort of logical sense, after all). But I'm sure that bug has long since been fixed.
I do undersand that Monks are intended as a melee characters. So the tendency is to want to send such a character barreling at other meleers. But until a Monk is at about level 6 it's just much more sound to use the character surgically. Whenever possible have him specifically target mages and archers. You typically wouldn't send a pure thief or bard rushing toward an enemy tank who's wearing full plate either, right? And at levels 1-5 those are the classes that he is about on par with in terms of melee.
Now when the party is ambushed by kobolds he'll have to do what he must. But in most battles he'll be able to target a mage or an archer.
There are actually TWO +2 Scimitars! One is on the top of the roof of Durlag's tower which you can clear out around level 4 or 5 without doing the rest of it as long as you memorize protection from petrification spells for the Basilisks and you have someone with high disarm traps skill.
It's in a tiny easteregg on that roof...not that obvious....
And the other is on the spider map for Cloakwood on a cliff...where presumably the brother in the 2Handed Sword quest was killed. There's just some gear...no body. And they added another +2 Scimmy there for EE.
If you're facing a mage with Horror Memorised, this is almost assuredly more valuable, if not, then not really. Basic Bard Song is merely a protection from fear effect that can be activated instantly as necessary.
You may be underestimating Garrick as a spellcaster though. Unlike multiclasses, where the key is to focus on the effects that are great without scaling, Bards are the opposite; they do best taking advantage of their 10-25 damage 5x Magic Missile salvo (which eats through pretty much all the Mirror Images of any mage in the game) 10D6 Skull Traps and Flame Arrows (Bards are the only class that gets optimal utility from Flame Arrow in BG). They're even the best with spells like Stoneskin, though using the singular scroll for Garrick is not recommended.
The main limit to the carnage is that you only get three spells / level and no evermemory, which is three volleys of magic missiles or Chromatic Orbs (Petrifying ones, no less), three acid arrows, either skull traps or Dispels, and Spirit Armour to top it off.
Concerning THAC0 concerns, it's worth noting that the Bard THAC0 is equal to the Cleric THAC0 thanks to their enhanced level, so with Brawler's, Garrick's actually perfectly capable at range, and it helps his Pick Pocketting to boot. Micromanagement in the form of removing armour for buffing/casting followed by wand spam is expensive and inefficient to my mind, any character can splurge on Potions of Fire Breath et al to be effective, but that doesn't mean they're making best use of the characters' abilities. Spirit Armour lasts a good long while and still leaves you able to cast as necessary.
He's a bitch at lower levels so I just gave him darts. Lots of attacks ranged....kept him out of trouble.
But with the Cursed Belt giving him 19 Strength AND the Monk Only Bracers his Thac0 is 9 for both of his attacks with fists at level 7 with me currently.
He get +7 to damage for that strength bonus too. So since his fists are doing 1D10 at that point (Katana/Two-handed sword damage...5.5 mean per attack), with the strength bonus he does 12.5 per attack, 25 damage if both land.
His AC does matter so a cloak against enchanted for protection against missiles OR the cloak of Non Detection to keep him hidden and out of trouble are best. The Shield amulet and barkskin help when he's lower level.
He gets lay on hands which helps if he gets hurt. And his saving throws aren't bad. He'll be insane at level 25 with +4 weapons for fists...but all in all, he's a grower with a great story, and the best personal quest of the three.
It's his constitution that should higher. I hope it gets buffed in SOA to 16.
Oh and put him in the fourth party slot in a T formation so he doesn't run ahead of the group.
I did eventually give into temptation and gave him the cursed belt, along with the glimmering bands and some protective magic items (would have to check to see exactly what). With that set-up, he's fairly deadly.
With his speed, he is ideal for taking out enemy mages and archers. As I have the Boots of Speed on Khalid, both of them tend to rush into the enemy (with Jahiera plodding behind), which allows my PC (Assassin) Imoen and Neera to unload on whoever they want with impunity.
I've not had quite so much luck with the stunning blow thus far - but that's what I have my Assassin for, disabling mages and clerics with Poison Weapon. Still, when it does work, it is always a nice bonus - there is never a time a stunned enemy is not welcome.
between all of the various casters in the game there are quite a few long duration buffs that you can give him that make him amazing even in the late early game/early mid game - presuming you don't mind taking the time to buff him after each rest.