A question about Blackguards...
Nic_Mercy
Member Posts: 418
Technically Blackguards in BG:EE are evil Paladins... but Paladins nonetheless. Does this mean then that a Blackgaurd can wield Carsomyr when BG2:EE comes out? Cause that would be all kinds of awesome. If not could we get some way added to corrupt Carsomyr into an Unholy Avenger for Dorn?
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If not then I hope a mod will be made to do this
What makes Carsomyr special is that it is a Holy Avenger weapon. A weapon designed specifically for Paladins (that are traditionally of lawful good alignment) and which exhibits specific powers in the hands of a Paladin. Now BG obviously has its limitations in how it can implement such a weapon, but the fact remains Carsomyr is intended to be a Holy Avenger weapon, a weapon specifically for paladins.
The introduction of Blackguards adds a twist to the game that on one hand would seem odd for an agent of evil to be wielding a Holy Avenger but at the same time offers the opportunity to add content allowing for the creation of an evil equivalent. No existing weapon in the game can claim to be a diametrically opposed equivalent to Carsomyr. Such a thing must be something newly created.
Ah I was confusing the weapon being discussed with the Silver Sword and the Soul Reaver weapons. With that said however, the Unholy Reaver a) does not drop in game without modification as far as I know (but i could be misremembering that), b) is nowhere near comparable statwise to Carsomyr and c) as far as the game mechanics are concerned there is no such thing as an "anti-paladin". Being fallen doesn't count and while a Blackguard would be equivalent, again this weapon is an extremely poor substitute for Carsomyr.
An anti-paladin is a chaotic evil paladin. If I'm not mistaken, those are also the mechanical requirements to use the unholy reaver. I've never played a fallen paladin, so I'm not sure if a fallen paladin actually becomes evil?
I'd appreciate it if the overhaul team would buff this weapon, especially since fallen paladins (non-blackguard paladins) are already pretty underwhelming.
Blackguards are NOT paladins, while BG added them as a paladin kit, and they're thematically related, they're still a completely distinct class from a paladin or even a Fallen Paladin. Technically speaking, the Carsomyr's abilities (The Holy Avenger effect) are actually supposed to a class feature the paladin possesses (and shouldn't have any effect at all if a non-paladin or fallen paladin wielded the sword), not an innate quality of the item aside from being a designated Holy Sword (similarly, the Purifier should have almost identical abilities to Carsomyr when wielded by a paladin).
It would actually be a pretty simple change I imagine. Rogue-rebalancing managed to change the Short-sword of Backstabbing's abilities based on the class of a character rather then simply restricting it to a particular class exclusively.
The PnP holy sword effect is pretty bad ass. ANY holy sword wielded by a paladin can attempt to dispel magic at their class level when attacking, and grants 50% magic resistance, in addition they're flat out immune to direct spells by evil spell casters who are lower level then they are while the sword is equipped. They all deal addition damage vs evil, and sometimes an additional amount vs certain enemies, and will always hit as +5 regardless of their actual enchantment.
I don't think corrupting Carsomyr is the way to generate a special weapon for Blackguards, that's inappropriate to the nature of a Holy Avenger. ("The Gods would not permit it!")
Instead, I reckon the Soul Reaver +4 is an appropriate starting point (slightly more so than the Unholy Reaver +5), since it's obtainable by a tough fight in a dungeon, and its THAC0-reduction on every hit is an interesting evil ability. However, it needs some more special abilities to be an evil counterpart to Carsomyr. Not just an exact mirror-image of Carsomyr, that'd be unimaginative. To avoid interfering with original BG2 content, I suggest making the Soul Reaver upgradeable by Cromwell (perhaps with the addition of some new component found by a class-specific Blackguard quest) to cast Miscast Magic on every hit (for contrast with Carsomyr's Dispel Magic) and confer (say) 100% Fire Resistance whilst equipped (for contrast with Carsomyr's 50% Magic Resistance), and then further upgradeable by Cespenar to become +6 and Vampiric. That'd be a pretty darn mean weapon.
The unholy reaver is basically just a 2-handed sword +5 that only thieves will ever get to use (why they would want to though I don't know). There are other +5 swords that are more useful/usable though including Gram, Psion blade, and Carsomyr, the last of which eventually becomes +6. Unfortunately 2 handed swords become a slightly less good choice in BG2 than they were in BG1 (mainly due to the lack of exceptional ones other than Gram and Carsomyr); whereas the other three 2h melee weapons all get a MAJOR boost in usefulness.
Edit: It seems I didn't quite understand the dispel effect. It actually dispels magic created by the hit character effecting EVERYONE in the area excluding the party. This dispel also seems to ignore level making it a really powerful dispel I guess. only downside is it does not ignore magic resistance. Pick up and keep this thing if you have a bard or thief for use any item. The dispel alone is why they would want to use it.
It doesn't have any other properties like Carsomyr does. It's just a plain sword +5... thats it. There is no dispel on hit or any other bonuses.