I'm going to have to go with BGtutu. I'm really enjoying EE, but it hasn't quite given me the same buzz I've gotten from tutu. It had been a good 8 years between finishing BG and discovering tutu, so for me, learning about modding a game was quite a significant thing. That and I've modded the wazu out of my tutu game :P
Reasons: 1) Easier to install 2) Comes with its own superior widescreen mod 3) Corrects bugs and adds features that BGtutu couldn't reach 4) Adds the potential for further developments by a company with a signed agreement with the IP owner. 5) Resurfaced the dormant modding community 6) Allows for UI modding 7) Promises BG2EE 8) The game is for the first time a multi-platform game. 9) Had everyone talk about BG, 15 years later. 10) Because there must be a 10.
Reasons: 1) Easier to install 2) Comes with its own superior widescreen mod 3) Corrects bugs and adds features that BGtutu couldn't reach 4) Adds the potential for further developments by a company with a signed agreement with the IP owner. 5) Resurfaced the dormant modding community 6) Allows for UI modding 7) Promises BG2EE 8) The game is for the first time a multi-platform game. 9) Had everyone talk about BG, 15 years later. 10) Because there must be a 10.
Points 4-10 are just filler and have nothing to do with playing and enjoying the game (or the question of which is better).
You may consider so @Jean_Luc. But there's something you are forgetting. I'm here, 15 years later. No way I would be playing Baldur's Gate today otherwise. So what does that tell you about points 4-10? They aren't just filler, are they?
It kinda depends on the situation. If a person has a stable BGtutu setup with all their favourite mods installed already, then honestly they are probably fine sticking with what they have. I know that BG:EE has apparently been optimized for further modding, but as of right now most of the modding efforts I've seen have been simply updating previous mods to work with BG:EE. Given some time that may change though. Otherwise I think BG:EE is a good buy for $20, if only because it gives you a good reason to do another playthrough. Seeing as how Baldur's Gate will be 50 hours plus for most people, it's a pretty reasonable buy for that price.
1) Yes 2)...hummm yes 3) Corrects bugs but adds many others and didn't fix old ones (Kagain's quest is still unfinished, 2nd level of Ice Island is not here... and more 4) I dont care 5) Absolutely not, most of modders are retired. And modding on BGEE is exactly the same as BG1 6) We didn't need that in BG1 and 2 because GUI was really cool 7) BG2 EE will suck if they do it like BG EE 8) Multi player still sucks 9) If people still talk about BG series it's only because of the great quality of original games and the huge amount of modds. Overhaul has nothing to do with that. 10) ...
Yeah they are with #10 as the pinnacle of the empty argumentation listed. Your renewed interest is based on a psychological trigger and invoked nostalgia. I seriously doubt you bought EE because you're soooo into zooming and coloured circles. Aside from this the 3 new NPCs are the only truly relevant factor.
4-10 have nothing to do with actually sitting down, playing and enjoying BG1. Maaaaaybe partial credit for #6 but meh.
Based on your reply 4-10 could've been condensed into a single point called "renewed interest" but that's still hardly relevant. Are Star Wars prequels better than then episodes IV-VI just because they brought more attention to the franchise? I seriously doubt anyone would claim that.
Just so it's clear I'm not claiming either is better, just don't like empty arguments. Your list to me looks like an inflated blowfish.
Just so it's clear I'm not claiming either is better, just don't like empty arguments.
Empty arguments? And I don't like you thinking that your personal options should in any way trump my personal options. That puts you right up there on top of your high horse. Sheesh! For your information, sir, What you call renewed interest is one of the things that makes BGEE better than BG+Tutu to me.
Do you really have anything -- something, as small as it may be -- to add to this thread and answer the damn question, or is your only interest here to analyze others' responses against your own personal values?
Well, I would say that right about now it's a toss-up for me, personally.
BG:EE gives me higher native resolution, the zoom feature, three excellent new NPCs, and the Black Pits (which I have yet to play, but I'm looking forward to it). Those are the main assets for me to BG:EE. And that's a lot. (I appreciate EE's new movies, UI, soundsets, and portraits. But those are essentially extras.)
BGT (which I prefer to Tutu) gives me a plethora of mods. And I really, really like a lot of those mods. I virtually never experienced any bugs with BGT, even heavily modded. You do have to have pay attention with respect to the installation order to avoid conflicts between mods. But that simply means you have to follow directions. It's not that great a challenge. It's well worth the trouble in order to be able to enjoy mods.
Eventually, once most mods are refitted to BG:EE's WeiDU, BG:EE will be the clear choice. And for the time being I'm quite comfortable taking my time to complete BG:EE at a leisurely pace. I expect to noodle around quite a bit with the Black Pits experimenting with a lot of classes and kits I've never gotten around to trying or combining.
I will probably wait until BG2:EE is released before I play BG2 again.
Black Pits...enough said! But seriously, it's a bit unfair to compare BG:EE to BGT for now. You're putting it against the whole saga? Wait till BG2:EE is released, and mods made for the enhanced editions...I think only then should we compare BGT:EE to BGT. I don't think anyone's expecting to completely outshine BGT outright a month after the release.
Surely though, you got to love the new features? And to think that's just the beginning of it.
For the moment, BGTutu is still better, but that's really only because EE isn't compatible with mods yet. That'll change.
This!
Also the NPC Project mod alone is better than all the new content available so far for BGEE. Just compare the pseudo romances in BGEE with the ones in NPC Project, for instance.
EE has more potential, but in their current states Tutu/BGT are superior. @marfig 1) Yes 2) Yes 3) EE is currently buggier so no. 4) Nothing really to do with which is better between EE and Tutu/BGT. 5) I hadn't realised it was dormant, but there are more mods currently available for Tutu/BGT so no. 6) Potential, but no substance as of yet. 7) That was happening anyway. Nothing really to do with which is better between EE and Tutu/BGT. 8) Yes it is but I can't say I care. Each to their own. Nothing really to do with which is better between EE and Tutu/BGT. 9) This is a good thing but....Nothing really to do with which is better between EE and Tutu/BGT.
Give it a few months and hopefully after some hard work from the devs and modders this question won't need asking.
That's exactly my point. With NPC Project you can have full romances in BG1, for instance with Branwen or Dynaheir.
Ah, okay, thanks for the clarification.
I'm ambivalent about the BG1 NPC Project. I think it's a very respectable effort overall. And it's definitely worth playing at least once, if not regularly. But EE's new NPCs remind me what difference it makes to have professionals develop NPCs for this game. First of all, imo the quality of the writing is noticeably better in EE than nearly every mod. And voice-acted content makes such a difference, versus text-only content (such as with BG1 NPC Project). Also, imo the voice-acting for so many mods is substandard--even when the writing and character concept is good. The voice-acting for Hubblepot was wonderful--that is one exception to the rule that I can think of. But in most other instances, the difference between fan created NPCs and professional work really shows.
I would dearly love for WotC to sign off on Beamdog making a DLC mod that adds lots and lots of voice-acted banters and interjections for BG:EE. Imo, nothing would breathe more new life into the game than that.
@Lemernis A the end is just a matter of personal preferences. I really miss mods like "NPC Project" or "Unfinished Business". To me BG doesn't feel right without. Hopefully, they will be made compatible with EE soon.
@Lemernis A the end is just a matter of personal preferences. I really miss mods like "NPC Project" or "Unfinished Business". To me BG doesn't feel right without. Hopefully, they will be made compatible with EE soon.
Totally agree! Just sharing my own experience. As always YMMV!
It's kinda wasted potential to me. Surely Black Pit and 3 new NPC are great but what made BG series really shine is the moddability. Imagine if BGEE could remove some hard-coded restrictions so that people could play as monk/sorcerer or druid/mage or other multiclass combinations. I recon that would bring some serious amount of people back to BGEE.
I mean, new NPCs are great, black pit is great, but... there are some serious amount of mods in BG2 to make those new features rather... insignificant in comparison and I recon Dev should keep that in mind if they're gonna make BGEE/BG2EE more successful; that those new features are nice but are merely icing on the cake, Dev should provide something average players (including those who have used a few mods) haven't experienced with the previous BG series in some fundamental way.
For me, the outstanding issue at the moment is modding. I understand that contractual limitations prevented the EE from integrating mods like Unfinished Business and the NPC Project, but purely from a gameplay/story perspective, BG1 is a better game with them than without them. And sadly, the EE just can't accommodate these mods at the moment - even if you manage to install them without WeiDU, every new update from the Overhaul team either destabilizes or completely undoes the mods anyway.
So for the moment, I have to say that BGT is the better product. It may require a bit more effort to assemble, but at the end of that process you're left with a much better game and a much better story than what the EE currently offers. (Of course, this may change in the future; it all depends on where the EE goes from here. If, at some point, the EE series becomes compatible with mods I consider essential - Ascension, the two UBs and BG1NPC - I'll have no compunction about uninstalling my existing BGT game and sticking with the EE exclusively.)
For me, the outstanding issue at the moment is modding. I understand that contractual limitations prevented the EE from integrating mods like Unfinished Business and the NPC Project, but purely from a gameplay/story perspective, BG1 is a better game with them than without them. And sadly, the EE just can't accommodate these mods at the moment - even if you manage to install them without WeiDU, every new update from the Overhaul team either destabilizes or completely undoes the mods anyway.
So for the moment, I have to say that BGT is the better product. It may require a bit more effort to assemble, but at the end of that process you're left with a much better game and a much better story than what the EE currently offers. (Of course, this may change in the future - it all depends on where the EE goes from here.)
Well, I don't know... Folks at Atari seem to have fairly relaxed stance regarding modding.... Please remember NWN, NWN2 with toolsets and whatnot... And how Bioware endorsed modding community back then... The lead designer Dave Gaider himself released Ascension and other mods...
As far as I can see, Beamdog/Overhaul cannot modify core stuffs but that doesn't mean hard-coded limits cannot be lifted.... They just need to relax some hardcoded limits... Please remember BGEE already significantly modified the original BG by introducing kits, spells and other game mechanics... Dev cannot change characters, dialogs, stories, maps but they're welcome to introduce new characters, maps, game mechanics.... So lifting hardcoded limits in some area, like class combinations seem pretty safe... Not changing it themselves but just letting modders change it... And modders are more than welcome to change BGEE in any way they like, so if modder wants to import the whole IWD1 to the BGEE engine just do it... that's what they're saying...
And Beamdog/Overhaul cannot modify the core stuffs but that doesn't mean modders/users cannot and I believe it's up to the philosophy of the developer/publisher in terms of whether to introduce mod-friendly interface or not.... Please remember as long as Beamdog/Overhaul are not the one changing the core stuffs it's ok...
Installing update does not undo the mod.... maybe except for overwriting Dialog.tlk... Since when the game is loaded the files in override folder override every game data... even the updated game data...
It would be awesome if Overhaul can create mod toolkits/package creator/mod-friendly interface so that modders could easily make the mods, package them in even more friendlier way than Weidu and publish them. I don't think Steam Workshop-like thing is possible, but at least like Morrowind or Oblivion where a player could simply tick the data he/she wished to load...
But I definitely agree with you... BGT/BGtutu has better mod support than BGEE...The first thing I did after I got BGEE was to uninstall BGTutu but I understan people who want to retain the copy...
And due to contractual constraint I don't think BG2EE will allow Neera, Dorn or Rasaad to join at the starting dungeon... but the Dev also said that there's nothing preventing users from importing contents from other games to the BGEE/BG2EE engine so I guess someone could do BGT for BG2EE once BG2EE comes out... As long as they're not too busy playing Skyrim or Diablo 3 or other modern games...
Here are the reasons why I think BG:EE is superior to BG1:
1. Easier install. I tried to do a modded version of BG1 once and it took me 17 hours with several uninstalls because the game had been corrupted. Granted I'm not the most tech savvy person and the "easier install" may vary depending on your own skill at applying mods.
2. 3 new npcs that I truly love including their voice acting. Again this may vary for you depending on what you like.
3. Black pits is something I'm really looking forward to trying.
4. The companys continued support and bug crushing.
5. Buying BG:EE supports a type of game that I really love and enjoy and would like to see more of. And that is an advantage with BG:EE. Granted it isn't an improved play experience.
Whether there will be more advantages like better multiplayer and/or renewed modding community remains to be seen.
for me it all went down to the interface. BGEE wins because it is simple to install and simple to play, i tried BG2 with mods because i cant wait for BG2EE and had to drop it because i just could not get over with it.
bgt installed via BWS is easyy to install. Someday BGEE will get the bugs ironed out and be better but not today. Mod Choices and stability win me over with BGT
As far as I can see, Beamdog/Overhaul cannot modify core stuffs but that doesn't mean hard-coded limits cannot be lifted....
I'm sorry, I'm not clear on what you're trying to say here. Presumably Beamdog has done as much as it was allowed to do, but the EE has been released, that's the product that's being compared to BGT as it currently stands. It's entirely possible that modders will eventually be able to adapt popular content to the EE... but we're not there yet, not by a long shot.
And Beamdog/Overhaul cannot modify the core stuffs but that doesn't mean modders/users cannot and I believe it's up to the philosophy of the developer/publisher in terms of whether to introduce mod-friendly interface or not.... Please remember as long as Beamdog/Overhaul are not the one changing the core stuffs it's ok...
Again, I don't see how this constitutes an argument for the EE over BGT: the latter can (and does) modify core components now, whereas the former still requires a new installation system, to say nothing of individual mod adaptation. The OP's question was "BG:EE or Tutu/BGT" - the only recommendation any of us can give has to be based on what's true at the moment, not what may be true six months from now.
Installing update does not undo the mod.... maybe except for overwriting Dialog.tlk... Since when the game is loaded the files in override folder override every game data... even the updated game data...
There have been reports on this forum of mods being overwritten by updates. I assume both UB and BG1NPC overwrite dialog.tlk (since they add dialogue and flavor text to various characters), so... yeah.
Zarely
Member Posts: 12
Comments
Reasons:
1) Easier to install
2) Comes with its own superior widescreen mod
3) Corrects bugs and adds features that BGtutu couldn't reach
4) Adds the potential for further developments by a company with a signed agreement with the IP owner.
5) Resurfaced the dormant modding community
6) Allows for UI modding
7) Promises BG2EE
8) The game is for the first time a multi-platform game.
9) Had everyone talk about BG, 15 years later.
10) Because there must be a 10.
For me, they add very much to the game
2)...hummm yes
3) Corrects bugs but adds many others and didn't fix old ones (Kagain's quest is still unfinished, 2nd level of Ice Island is not here... and more
4) I dont care
5) Absolutely not, most of modders are retired. And modding on BGEE is exactly the same as BG1
6) We didn't need that in BG1 and 2 because GUI was really cool
7) BG2 EE will suck if they do it like BG EE
8) Multi player still sucks
9) If people still talk about BG series it's only because of the great quality of original games and the huge amount of modds. Overhaul has nothing to do with that.
10) ...
5) Not sure about that.
6) Actually this isn't true; UI modding is exactly the same as it has ever been.
4-10 have nothing to do with actually sitting down, playing and enjoying BG1. Maaaaaybe partial credit for #6 but meh.
Based on your reply 4-10 could've been condensed into a single point called "renewed interest" but that's still hardly relevant. Are Star Wars prequels better than then episodes IV-VI just because they brought more attention to the franchise? I seriously doubt anyone would claim that.
Just so it's clear I'm not claiming either is better, just don't like empty arguments. Your list to me looks like an inflated blowfish.
Do you really have anything -- something, as small as it may be -- to add to this thread and answer the damn question, or is your only interest here to analyze others' responses against your own personal values?
BG:EE gives me higher native resolution, the zoom feature, three excellent new NPCs, and the Black Pits (which I have yet to play, but I'm looking forward to it). Those are the main assets for me to BG:EE. And that's a lot. (I appreciate EE's new movies, UI, soundsets, and portraits. But those are essentially extras.)
BGT (which I prefer to Tutu) gives me a plethora of mods. And I really, really like a lot of those mods. I virtually never experienced any bugs with BGT, even heavily modded. You do have to have pay attention with respect to the installation order to avoid conflicts between mods. But that simply means you have to follow directions. It's not that great a challenge. It's well worth the trouble in order to be able to enjoy mods.
Eventually, once most mods are refitted to BG:EE's WeiDU, BG:EE will be the clear choice. And for the time being I'm quite comfortable taking my time to complete BG:EE at a leisurely pace. I expect to noodle around quite a bit with the Black Pits experimenting with a lot of classes and kits I've never gotten around to trying or combining.
I will probably wait until BG2:EE is released before I play BG2 again.
Surely though, you got to love the new features? And to think that's just the beginning of it.
Also the NPC Project mod alone is better than all the new content available so far for BGEE. Just compare the pseudo romances in BGEE with the ones in NPC Project, for instance.
That's exactly my point. With NPC Project you can have full romances in BG1, for instance with Branwen or Dynaheir.
@marfig
1) Yes
2) Yes
3) EE is currently buggier so no.
4) Nothing really to do with which is better between EE and Tutu/BGT.
5) I hadn't realised it was dormant, but there are more mods currently available for Tutu/BGT so no.
6) Potential, but no substance as of yet.
7) That was happening anyway. Nothing really to do with which is better between EE and Tutu/BGT.
8) Yes it is but I can't say I care. Each to their own. Nothing really to do with which is better between EE and Tutu/BGT.
9) This is a good thing but....Nothing really to do with which is better between EE and Tutu/BGT.
Give it a few months and hopefully after some hard work from the devs and modders this question won't need asking.
I'm ambivalent about the BG1 NPC Project. I think it's a very respectable effort overall. And it's definitely worth playing at least once, if not regularly. But EE's new NPCs remind me what difference it makes to have professionals develop NPCs for this game. First of all, imo the quality of the writing is noticeably better in EE than nearly every mod. And voice-acted content makes such a difference, versus text-only content (such as with BG1 NPC Project). Also, imo the voice-acting for so many mods is substandard--even when the writing and character concept is good. The voice-acting for Hubblepot was wonderful--that is one exception to the rule that I can think of. But in most other instances, the difference between fan created NPCs and professional work really shows.
I would dearly love for WotC to sign off on Beamdog making a DLC mod that adds lots and lots of voice-acted banters and interjections for BG:EE. Imo, nothing would breathe more new life into the game than that.
A the end is just a matter of personal preferences. I really miss mods like "NPC Project" or "Unfinished Business". To me BG doesn't feel right without. Hopefully, they will be made compatible with EE soon.
I mean, new NPCs are great, black pit is great, but... there are some serious amount of mods in BG2 to make those new features rather... insignificant in comparison and I recon Dev should keep that in mind if they're gonna make BGEE/BG2EE more successful; that those new features are nice but are merely icing on the cake, Dev should provide something average players (including those who have used a few mods) haven't experienced with the previous BG series in some fundamental way.
So for the moment, I have to say that BGT is the better product. It may require a bit more effort to assemble, but at the end of that process you're left with a much better game and a much better story than what the EE currently offers. (Of course, this may change in the future; it all depends on where the EE goes from here. If, at some point, the EE series becomes compatible with mods I consider essential - Ascension, the two UBs and BG1NPC - I'll have no compunction about uninstalling my existing BGT game and sticking with the EE exclusively.)
About contractual limitation:
http://forum.baldursgate.com/discussion/1588/bgee-please-read-list-of-things-that-cant-be-done
As far as I can see, Beamdog/Overhaul cannot modify core stuffs but that doesn't mean hard-coded limits cannot be lifted.... They just need to relax some hardcoded limits... Please remember BGEE already significantly modified the original BG by introducing kits, spells and other game mechanics... Dev cannot change characters, dialogs, stories, maps but they're welcome to introduce new characters, maps, game mechanics.... So lifting hardcoded limits in some area, like class combinations seem pretty safe... Not changing it themselves but just letting modders change it... And modders are more than welcome to change BGEE in any way they like, so if modder wants to import the whole IWD1 to the BGEE engine just do it... that's what they're saying...
And Beamdog/Overhaul cannot modify the core stuffs but that doesn't mean modders/users cannot and I believe it's up to the philosophy of the developer/publisher in terms of whether to introduce mod-friendly interface or not.... Please remember as long as Beamdog/Overhaul are not the one changing the core stuffs it's ok...
Installing update does not undo the mod.... maybe except for overwriting Dialog.tlk... Since when the game is loaded the files in override folder override every game data... even the updated game data...
It would be awesome if Overhaul can create mod toolkits/package creator/mod-friendly interface so that modders could easily make the mods, package them in even more friendlier way than Weidu and publish them. I don't think Steam Workshop-like thing is possible, but at least like Morrowind or Oblivion where a player could simply tick the data he/she wished to load...
But I definitely agree with you... BGT/BGtutu has better mod support than BGEE...The first thing I did after I got BGEE was to uninstall BGTutu but I understan people who want to retain the copy...
And due to contractual constraint I don't think BG2EE will allow Neera, Dorn or Rasaad to join at the starting dungeon... but the Dev also said that there's nothing preventing users from importing contents from other games to the BGEE/BG2EE engine so I guess someone could do BGT for BG2EE once BG2EE comes out... As long as they're not too busy playing Skyrim or Diablo 3 or other modern games...
1. Easier install. I tried to do a modded version of BG1 once and it took me 17 hours with several uninstalls because the game had been corrupted. Granted I'm not the most tech savvy person and the "easier install" may vary depending on your own skill at applying mods.
2. 3 new npcs that I truly love including their voice acting. Again this may vary for you depending on what you like.
3. Black pits is something I'm really looking forward to trying.
4. The companys continued support and bug crushing.
5. Buying BG:EE supports a type of game that I really love and enjoy and would like to see more of. And that is an advantage with BG:EE. Granted it isn't an improved play experience.
Whether there will be more advantages like better multiplayer and/or renewed modding community remains to be seen.