[Kit Idea] Gladiator - Feedback?
Boaster
Member Posts: 622
Fighter Kit
GLADIATOR: A gladiator is a trained fighter in the arts of combat, most often not by willing trade. To survive, a gladiator must always be ahead of the curve and able to outwit opponents to stay alive in the arena. Much more disciplined than the normal fighter, the gladiator gains greater combat resilience with every level. A gladiator, in the arena, is seldom if ever in possession of ranged weapons and heavy/bulky armor and therefore has no use for them.
Advantages:
- Every 3 Levels, the gladiator gains an additional +1 damage.
- Every 4 Levels, the gladiator gains an additional +1 THAC0.
- Every 5 Levels, the gladiator gains an additional +1 AC.
Disadvantages:
- Cannot wear armor beyond Studded Leather.
- Cannot become proficient in ranged weapons (though may still technically use them).
- Requires Intelligence of 14.
Modified/Updated
GLADIATOR: A gladiator is a trained fighter in the arts of combat, most often not by willing trade. To survive, a gladiator must always be ahead of the curve and able to outwit opponents to stay alive in the arena. Much more disciplined than the normal fighter, the gladiator gains greater combat resilience with every level. A gladiator, in the arena, is seldom if ever in possession of ranged weapons and heavy/bulky armor and therefore has no use for them.
Advantages:
- Every 3 Levels, the gladiator gains an additional +1 damage.
- Every 4 Levels, the gladiator gains an additional +1 THAC0.
- Every 5 Levels, the gladiator gains an additional +1 AC.
Disadvantages:
- Cannot wear armor beyond Studded Leather.
- Cannot become proficient in ranged weapons (though may still technically use them).
- Requires Intelligence of 14.
Modified/Updated
GLADIATOR: A gladiator is a trained fighter in the arts of combat, most often not by willing trade. To survive, a gladiator must always be ahead of the curve and able to outwit opponents to stay alive in the arena. Much more disciplined than the normal fighter, the gladiator gains greater combat resilience with every level. A gladiator, in the arena, is seldom if ever in possession of ranged weapons and heavy/bulky armor and therefore has no use for them.
Advantages:
- Every 3 Levels, the gladiator gains an additional +1 damage.
- Every 6 Levels, the gladiator gains an additional +1 THAC0.
- Every 9 Levels, the gladiator gains an additional +1 AC.
Disadvantages:
- Cannot be Lawful aligned.
- Cannot wear armor beyond Studded Leather.
- Cannot become proficient in ranged weapons.
- Cannot use Sword and Shield proficiency.
- AC penalty versus Missiles, -4.
- Requires Intelligence of 9.
Post edited by Boaster on
1
Comments
To me new kits should have unique abilities (or at least have unique abilities for the class).
I was going for a more Passively enhanced Fighter. Could use some work in that department. I will make some adjustments.
ROT version
Advantages:
Gains a +3 bonus to AC
+10% resistance to slashing, piercing and crushing damage. He gains an additional 2%
for every 3 levels.
Once per day for every 4 levels can use 'Sand throw'
At 15th level they move at 2 points faster than the usual character
At 20th level gains regeneration 1 hit point every 5 seconds
Disadvantages:
Get a -2 penalty to maximum Constitution at character creation
May not wear armor greater than studded leather
@Boaster
Modified/Updated should be first, old second
I'd put forth something like this:
Advantages:
- Every 6 Levels, the gladiator gains an additional +1 damage and +1 THACO.
-+10% resistance to slashing and crushing damage.
Disadvantages:
- Cannot be Lawful aligned.
- Cannot wear armor beyond Studded Leather.
- Cannot become proficient in ranged weapons.
- Cannot use Sword and Shield proficiency.
I'm also still not liking that this kit has nothing special about it. It went from being a Kensai-light to a Kensai-light-light.
Gladiators had to be a little bit smarter than their peers to survive, right?
Gladiator wouldn't be able to dual class. Since his intelligence requirement is 9, as well as his strength requirement is 9, following the tables, he'd have to have 17 strength and intelligence to dual to a thief.
17 Strength, Dexterity and Intelligence would all be required.
A Kensai is really just a monk/fighter isn't it? Kensai is Monk/Fighter-lite. Or rather, Blade Bard-heavy?
The Sword-Shield non-proficiency along with -4 AC vs Missiles just reinforce that this is a melee-heavy fighter.
A new class must be very different from what is already existing. Althought I like the idea of crushing/slashing/piercing resistance (how about resistance that depends on level ? to get an idea of a die hard fighter), how about you stop thinking about passive and display some interesting "active" skills that would be both challenging and cunning ?
Strike aiming to bled the opponent, throw dirt, sneak dart attack, finishing blows, casting a net... Gladiators used a lot of tricks, why not inspire yourself from that lore and make a class that is radically different and not only based of "boring" passive ? Even kensai and monks have some active abilities...
While its true that Monks and Kensais share some similarities, their special abilities set them apart. Your Gladiator class has nothing special going for it except being a gimpier Kensai. @Medilen has the right of it, you need to come up with special abilities for the class to truly set it apart.
Just look at BG2, most (if not all) kits have a special ability/spell that clearly sets them apart from the others kits and base class.
Why wouldn't this guy be able to get 17 str 17 dex and 9 intelligence? I don't follow you on that
Hmm, suggesting that intelligence or even wisdom are required to survive combat seems a bit strange to me. "Survival" isn't necessarily something that involves intelligence at all. In the life of a gladiator, winning is survival; and winning in combat is largely mainly about physical stats. Yes, intelligence and wisdom, irl, have a huge effect on combat due to being able to think on your feet, etc. In Baldur's Gate, on the other hand, the physical attributes encompass all physical combat related issues. Survivability is determined by your constitution, as well as your other physical stats... I just don't see why gladiators would need higher non physical attributes than other fighters.
Also, the current character creation system in BG, as I think has already been mentioned, just effectively makes minimum stat requirements an exploit as it just bumps your roll up to at least that level without limiting them in any way. Not allowing proficiency in sword and shield doesn't really reinforce a melee-heavy fighter since sword and shield style is melee.
Also, and this is just a personal preference issue I suppose, but if you're going for something reminiscent of actual gladiators, sword and shield was quite common.
I definitely like the inability to become proficient in ranged weapons as well as the AC modifier versus missiles, although I'd probably increase the penalty a bit. The inability to become proficient in ranged weapons for a fighting class is, as always, not really much of a penalty, but it does make sense here. I've already mentioned my thoughts on the intelligence requirements and the sword and shield style... In my opinion, the damage bonus is a bit too frequent and the AC bonus is a bit too infrequent. Also, as @Tanthalas mentioned, it absolutely needs some unique special abilities to set it apart. My thoughts:
Advantages:
- Every 4 Levels, the gladiator gains an additional +1 damage.
- Every 6 Levels, the gladiator gains an additional +1 THAC0.
- Every 8 Levels, the gladiator gains an additional +1 AC.
-(perhaps some sort of attack per round increase, as gladiators are constantly being forced into the ring for fast-paced, hectic combat)
Disadvantages:
- Cannot be Lawful aligned.
- Cannot wear armor beyond Studded Leather.
- Cannot become proficient in ranged weapons.
- AC penalty versus Missiles, 6.
-(some appropriate penalty to balance the attack per round increase, possibly some sort of slight attribute limit at character creation)
Special Abilities:
(this is where the kit definitely needs something so as to set it apart from the other available kits, I can't think of anything at the moment but if I do I'll add it here)
-
-
-
And there was a type of gladiator that used a bow; shields were common too.
I like the 4/6/8. Adding additional -2 AC vs missiles really hurts because Leather and Studded Leather, but particularly Leather already has an additional -2 AC on top. So a Gladiator with Leather Armor and -6 Natural AC will have -8.
@geselle
Yes, shields were common. And actually the kit says nothing about them not being able to use Bows, or Shields at all. The kit just cannot put points into range weapons or the Sword-Shield proficiency.
EDIT: hmm, just realized that this suggestion isn't a special ability idea at all lol, but rather another innate idea for the kit. I guess I'm more a fan of innates than activated abilities in general, so it's really difficult for me to think of activated special abilities.
Another thing could be (instead of an INT requirement) an ability that for a short amount of time gives you an attack or defence bonus based on your INT or WIS score(whichever one would fit best).
My suggestion:
GLADIATOR: A gladiator is a trained fighter in the arts of combat, most often not by willing trade. To survive, a gladiator must always be ahead of the curve and able to outwit opponents to stay alive in the arena. Much more disciplined than the normal fighter, the gladiator gains greater combat resilience with every level. A gladiator, in the arena, is seldom if ever in possession of ranged weapons and heavy/bulky armor and therefore has no use for them.
Advantages:
-At level 1 the Gladiator gets a -1 to armour class, which improves with an additional -4 every five levels. (This is a -5 at level 20, finally making him equal to platemail wearing classes, not too overpowered)
- At level 1 (and every third level thereafter) the Gladiator gains a use of the Throw Dust ability, blinding an opponent for 2d4 rounds unless they make a save vs Breath Weapon.
- At level 6 (and every third level thereafter) the Gladiator can throw a net for a maximum of 20ft, entangling his opponent for 2d6 rounds unless he saves vs Paralyzation. Entangled opponents cannot move, but still cast spells and attack normally (though at a -2 attack penalty).
- At 10th level (and every five levels thereafter) the Gladiator gains a use of the Knockdown ability, slamming an opponent to the ground, stunning him for 6 rounds. A succesful save va Paralyation reduces this to 3.
- At 16th level, once per day the Gladiator can activate Final Showdown. To activate this ability, he marks a target. For five rounds, he gains a +3 bonus to attack and damage against this target. If he kills his opponent in this time, all enemies in a 30ft radius must take a save vs spells or be feared for 1d4 rounds due to the brutal nature of the finishing move.
Disadvantages:
- Cannot wear armor beyond Studded Leather. (A gladiator must remain light on his feet)
- Can only put proficiency points in short swords, long swords, bastard swords, flails, maces, scimitars, daggers, spears, halberds, sword and shield style and single weapon style. (As much the traditional gladiator weapons as I could find, up for debate)
-When fighting more than three opponents, the Gladiator gets a -1 to hit and damage per extra opponent (Gladiatorial combat, as far as I know, was hardly every a giant brawl. This also reinforces the flavor of the class)
__________
This makes it a bit more active, micromanaging class that you want to use in a surgical manner, to take out the strongest opponent in the group in a one-on-one fight, which suits the Gladiator image.
The only thing I don't like is the Knockdown ability. If the target has a successful save he shouldn't be stunned, like what happens with the Monk's Stunning Blow.
Lowering the number of uses is also an option, but I like it when I get something when I level up, not just HP and Thac0 decrease.
Depowering the abilities is probably the way to go, maybe find a way to make the opponent immune after it's been used once (because no warrior worth his salt falls for the same trick twice).
-Every 5 levels starting at level 1 the Gladiator gets a -1 to armour class
-May use Frenzied Assault ability once per day per 4 levels.
Frenzied Assault: All hits for the next 10 seconds made by the gladiatior are at +3 bonus to attack and damage. All hits that connect have a chance of blinding the opponent for one round (save vs paralyzation to avoid). Upon activating frenzied assault causes all enemies in a 30ft radius to save vs spells or be feared for 1d3 rounds due to the brutal nature of the attack.
Disadvantages:
- Cannot wear armor beyond Studded Leather.
- Negative 2 to max intelligence.
- Cannot specialize in ranged weapons.
I like Drugar's best. It's perhaps not perfect yet (abilities seems a bit too strong) but you get the feeling you are nearly there yet