Ranged Thief: Shar-Teel or Safana?

shawne

I'm putting together an Evil/Chaotic Neutral party, and I've filled out all the slots except one - I need a thief/archer. Who would be most suited to the role: Safana or Shar-Teel? Either would fit in terms of the RP, but I don't know which is the better choice from a gameplay perspective... suggestions?

EnterHaerDalis

Dual Classed Shar Teel is beast

Just note that her proficiency's are scrambled eggs and you might want to Shadowkeeper her back to her normal vanilla self.

I always get Safana and Alora confused I guess you can have access to Safana early on also which is nice

Quartz

In terms of gameplay, Shar-Teel is incredibly powerful.

Of course, I wayyyyy prefer Safana's personality, so I pick her up fairly often, but yeah ... that's not what you asked, so.

deltago

Without shadowkeeping, Safana although you are going to have to keep your eye on your dart inventory level. If you are going to shadowkeep then Shar-teel

Nitram_Vi_Hermannia

Why would you want to have full party? Well if you really want it, then Safana would be better.

Pantalion

Shar-Teel shall have a superior THAC0 and the opportunity to specialise into Bows or Slings, as well as the ability to step into melee if the mood strikes.

shawne

Shar-Teel it is, then. Thanks, everyone!

TJ_Hooker

If you're feeling a little munchkin-y try this: shadowkeeper her so that she starts with two pips in a weapon. Add a another pip to this weapon at levels 3 and 6. Then dual to a thief and place a fifth pip in the weapon when you hit level 8. I did this with longbows and she's pretty deadly.

moopy

@EnterHaerDalis

What was Shar-Teel's vanilla proficiency points in?

Lemernis

Large Swords ++
Small Swords ++
Missile Weapons ++

shawne

@TJ_Hooker: I'd rather not mess around with ShadowKeeper, but thanks for the tip.

Lemernis

Here is a page with comparison of Shar-Teel in BG1 and EE for handy reference.

OzzyBotkins

Both are good
but I would take Safana as a thief

DinsdalePiranha

Shar-Teel is better, though she can be powerful even without shadowkeeper.

get to fighter 3, put a pip in longbows, dual to thief, put your points... wherever you want to. when you get to thief 4, you get your fighter stuff back, put second proficiency in longbows, and with thief 8, go for the third - and there you go, mastery, +3 thac0 and +3 dmg... sadly, no extra attacks, you do need shadowkeeper for that, to reach grandmastery.

still not as alpha as Coran, but considering there are exactly zero good archers within evil chars, it's a start.

also, I'd consider Monty with strength belt/gloves as a slinger - he's rather badass at it. (though bows/crossbows can still kick more ass)

edit: forgot to add that whereas Shar-Teel is better from the "sticking pointy things into fleshy bits" side of the argument, Safana can dual-class to mage with the int tome - something to keep in mind.

Oxford_Guy

BTW Safana starts with proficiencies in Scimitars and Darts, if you don't pick her up early on she will add her next proificiency in single weapon fighting... If you want her to be ranged I would pick her up early on and then give her crossbow proficiency at level 4 for the Light Crossbow of Speed. BTW she also gets Charm Person as a special ability.

Oxford_Guy

DinsdalePiranha said:

Shar-Teel is better, though she can be powerful even without shadowkeeper.

get to fighter 3, put a pip in longbows, dual to thief, put your points... wherever you want to. when you get to thief 4, you get your fighter stuff back, put second proficiency in longbows, and with thief 8, go for the third - and there you go, mastery, +3 thac0 and +3 dmg... sadly, no extra attacks, you do need shadowkeeper for that, to reach grandmastery.

still not as alpha as Coran, but considering there are exactly zero good archers within evil chars, it's a start.

also, I'd consider Monty with strength belt/gloves as a slinger - he's rather badass at it. (though bows/crossbows can still kick more ass)

In my party Viconia is going to the get the Ogre gloves, as she has lower strength than Monty to start with, but 19 Dex, so will be lethal with a sling! Monty gets the Legacy of the Masters gloves instead, which give +1THAC0/+2 damage with *all* weapons (melee *and* ranged), so help with *both* backstabs and sling for him.

BTW a sling with 18/00 strength (e.g. ogre gloves) does the following base damage:
8-11 with 1 APR

Mind you in the current build of BGEE throwing axes and daggers also do strength damage (though have more carry weight and shorter range and straight thieves can't use axes), with 18/00 strength:

Throwing Dagger: 7-10 damage with *2* APR (good choice for a thief, as can use the same proficiency with the dagger of venom)
Throwing Axe: 8-13 damage with 1 APR

DinsdalePiranha

Oxford_Guy said:

DinsdalePiranha said:

Shar-Teel is better, though she can be powerful even without shadowkeeper.

get to fighter 3, put a pip in longbows, dual to thief, put your points... wherever you want to. when you get to thief 4, you get your fighter stuff back, put second proficiency in longbows, and with thief 8, go for the third - and there you go, mastery, +3 thac0 and +3 dmg... sadly, no extra attacks, you do need shadowkeeper for that, to reach grandmastery.

still not as alpha as Coran, but considering there are exactly zero good archers within evil chars, it's a start.

also, I'd consider Monty with strength belt/gloves as a slinger - he's rather badass at it. (though bows/crossbows can still kick more ass)

In my party Viconia is going to the get the Ogre gloves, as she has lower strength than Monty to start with, but 19 Dex, so will be lethal with a sling! Monty gets the Legacy of the Masters gloves instead, which give +1THAC0/+2 damage with *all* weapons (melee *and* ranged), so help with *both* backstabs and sling for him.

BTW a sling with 18/00 strength (e.g. ogre gloves) does the following base damage:
8-11 with 1 APR

Mind you in the current build of BGEE throwing axes and daggers also do strength damage (though have more carry weight and shorter range and straight thieves can't use axes), with 18/00 strength:

Throwing Dagger: 7-10 damage with *2* APR (good choice for a thief, as can use the same proficiency with the dagger of venom)
Throwing Axe: 8-13 damage with 1 APR

Monty is a fighter multiclass (same as Yeslick, my current slinger), so he gets extra attacks, doing over twice the damage of clerics and such - something to keep in mind (with strength belt and good equipment, you can deal 17,5 dmg on average, twice per round, and that's without the gauntlets). also, afaik, he gets +1 thac0 to slings from being a halfling.

throwing daggers can be cool, but a sling +3 with bullets +2 has 5 better thac0, and unlike BG2, thac0 here is actually pretty important.

though I still prefer Monty as a backstabber (because look at the guy!), but... it's a valid option.

Oxford_Guy

DinsdalePiranha said:

Oxford_Guy said:

DinsdalePiranha said:

Shar-Teel is better, though she can be powerful even without shadowkeeper.

get to fighter 3, put a pip in longbows, dual to thief, put your points... wherever you want to. when you get to thief 4, you get your fighter stuff back, put second proficiency in longbows, and with thief 8, go for the third - and there you go, mastery, +3 thac0 and +3 dmg... sadly, no extra attacks, you do need shadowkeeper for that, to reach grandmastery.

still not as alpha as Coran, but considering there are exactly zero good archers within evil chars, it's a start.

also, I'd consider Monty with strength belt/gloves as a slinger - he's rather badass at it. (though bows/crossbows can still kick more ass)

In my party Viconia is going to the get the Ogre gloves, as she has lower strength than Monty to start with, but 19 Dex, so will be lethal with a sling! Monty gets the Legacy of the Masters gloves instead, which give +1THAC0/+2 damage with *all* weapons (melee *and* ranged), so help with *both* backstabs and sling for him.

BTW a sling with 18/00 strength (e.g. ogre gloves) does the following base damage:
8-11 with 1 APR

Mind you in the current build of BGEE throwing axes and daggers also do strength damage (though have more carry weight and shorter range and straight thieves can't use axes), with 18/00 strength:

Throwing Dagger: 7-10 damage with *2* APR (good choice for a thief, as can use the same proficiency with the dagger of venom)
Throwing Axe: 8-13 damage with 1 APR

Monty is a fighter multiclass (same as Yeslick, my current slinger), so he gets extra attacks, doing over twice the damage of clerics and such - something to keep in mind (with strength belt and good equipment, you can deal 17,5 dmg on average, twice per round, and that's without the gauntlets). also, afaik, he gets +1 thac0 to slings from being a halfling.

throwing daggers can be cool, but a sling +3 with bullets +2 has 5 better thac0, and unlike BG2, thac0 here is actually pretty important.

though I still prefer Monty as a backstabber (because look at the guy!), but... it's a valid option.

Me too, in my current evil BGEE party I have both Imoen (my only good NPC) and Monty, with Monty focused on the stealthy skills (now moving onto pickpockets) and Imoen on Find Traps/Open Locks (no moving onto Set Traps). For proficiencies, on top of his 2 pips in shortswords and 2 pips in slings, I gave him his remaining two pips in Quarterstaves, partly to have a blunt damage options (and I already have a +2 staff), but with the Staff of Striking he will be awesome at backstabs :-)

leddyhs

Montaron. Slings.

Debaser

I would take Shar-Teel, And put everything into Dagger or Longsword Honestly. (Probably Dagger)

Or shadowkeeper her and just let her be a grandmaster in Long Bows by level 6 or 7 as a fighter before dualing her over.

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