Skip to content

help with a bard

i really want to play a bard but have no idea on how to build or even play one. As a member of a party , how are bards
«1

Comments

  • DreamingViksDreamingViks Member Posts: 87
    I will probably be corrected soon...

    I like the idea of bards, I just did a playthrough with a PC Bard. While not gimped, I must say it was abit hard to motivate at times... He is DEFO not a rogue, and not a true mage. Furthermore there is no proper armors in BG1 that permits spellcasting putting the bard in an awkward postion... :(

    Either way, max dex/int and get decent STR and CON, depending if u plan to melee.
  • CaptRoryCaptRory Member Posts: 1,660
    Wisdom is your Dump Stat. Try and max everything else. Playing a bard means you can wear several hats depending on what your group needs at any given time. With the right buffs you can be a great tank. You're a strong spellcaster in certain circumstances. And you get free pickpocketing skill.
  • ZanathKariashiZanathKariashi Member Posts: 2,869
    edited January 2013
    Int really isn't important to be completely honest.....13 gives you plenty of room for spells (about 2x per level what a sorc gets and lets face it, Sorcs have PLENTY of room due to how lacking spell variety is), and you can always dump a spell if it's not useful anymore (sleep after BG2 starts..for instance). And sadly there's little difference in learn chance between 13-18...so that's not a concern if you're playing on Core or higher..and even if they randomly decided to enforce int restrictions on spell casting, 13 is high enough to cast 6th level spells...so no loss.

    Essentially, all extra int gives you is a tiny bit more lore...which if you don't dump wis to get the points for that high int in first place, you won't even need.

    And I wouldn't dump wis below 9 or it'll cut into your lore and set you back about 2 levels...when your lore is the most valuable.

    18 str is recommended if you plan to melee at all (or anything 14-ish or above for decent carry weight). High dex is pretty much a requirement for AC and better ranged to hit, Con can be left at 15 and the manual used for max possible HP. 17 charisma is ok to have, if you can spare the points. With the manual and Algernon's or a Nymph cloak, you can have the max useful 20 charisma. And do so pretty much immediately.


    As to kits...Blades and Skalds can become offensive forces in melee, though Skalds take a bit more work to do so competitively, so you'd probably want 18 str for them. Jesters or plain bards, will likely be ranged exclusively, so it's not as huge a requirement. They can become powerful melee characters in the sequel with proper gear, but by then str belts are ubiquitous, so it's not a huge concern to have raw high str, unless you just feel like it.


    The Skald song is the ultimate buff, till epic levels. So gets better and better the more party mates you have. The regular Bard song....helps offset morale break and shortens fear duration...slightly...it's ok, especially if your party is getting pounded which will cause morale breaking, but if you never really run into problems like that...it's not too useful (gets a little bit better in the sequel, since it starts giving a flat +1 luck bonus at lvl 15, and at 21 +2 luck and fear immunity). The Jester song I'm not very fond of, it can be effective...but doing so requires some very cheesy actions I refuse to take, and is otherwise sub-par and useless until 15+. The Blade song isn't worth using, as it does the exact same thing as the normal bard song, except it never becomes better, well until Epic levels when everyone gets the same song.
  • NecroblivionNecroblivion Member Posts: 210
    Most of the stats are good for Bards. The kits though really change your role. Skalds and Blades are much more combat oriented and are quite good as a melee support. Blades add to combat more as fighters while the Skalds will swing the favor to your side with their song and when things get more easy they can use spells and weapon to finish things up. While, Jesters have a great opener for tough fights and can take the weak willed enemies out of combat while the rest of the party can take down the toughest foe.

    Also there's the elven chain that is dropped at the Dorn encounter. (I use Shadowkeeper after I complete the fight, and give it to myself), which is quite a nice armor for a bard.

    Another thing I have noticed. If you want to feel more powerful as a bard you should take a mage which can't use spells that you might need (like Xan) and have your bard learn them. It will allow your bard to be more important because for example he is the only one that can learn Evocation spells. But even in a group with a lot of magic extra fire power is never a bad thing, and your bard will do more damage then your other spellcasters because of his higher level.
  • atcDaveatcDave Member Posts: 2,420
    edited January 2013
    I like playing Bards a lot. But you need to keep in mind that you're sort of a utility player. A Bard is vaguely like a thief/Mage, in that they can cast spells and use good weapons (especially bows!). But a few significant differences; they will never get the key thief skills, so the can't really replace a thief. They also won't get the highest level Mage spells; that doesn't really matter until late in BGII, but it will eventually matter.
    But the good news is very good. You'll be on an easy experience table, so level ups come frequently. That means your Thac0 will go down fairly quickly (remember that bow!) and your hit points will go up quickly. It also means you do decent damage with your Mage spells, really better than a Mage with the same experience (even though you'll have fewer total spells).
    Bard Song can be fun to play with too. I'm not sure if it often decides a battle, but it is effective, and the rest of the party will benefit from it.
    I like having a bard in the party. I think they also add a lot from a pure role playing perspective. They can useful, but aren't extremely powerful. Unless you're a pure power gamer you should be able to have a lot of fun with one.
  • The user and all related content has been deleted.
  • MykraMykra Member Posts: 252
    Bhaaldog said:


    Also think like a bard i.e. charm, stealth and cunning. If six mercenaries/wolves/ogres etc walk up to a bard, typically the bard would run away to live to fight another day. They would not go in and attempt to tank everything.

    Unless you are a Blade, and then you wonder why they only sent in six. ;P
  • ForseForse Member Posts: 106
    I dearly recommend playing a bard, it's one of my fav classes. In the long run (BG2 expansion) Blade is the strongest choice, since they all get the improved song. I kind of hope they make some changes to how the high level abilities work, to balance some things out.

    But a bard is a great class, and even though it falls short of some of the multiclasses in terms of power, it's a great single class.
  • ZanathKariashiZanathKariashi Member Posts: 2,869
    You clearly aren't familiar with Faerunian Bards...the non-fail ones (*cough*Garrick*Cough*) make their own damn legends to sing about. And even the spoony one isn't completely fail...it's just REALLY hard to be seriously badass when you snivel and simper THAT much. He makes Khalid look like the poster child for Manliness by comparison.
  • deltagodeltago Member Posts: 7,811
    Even out your stats. If you meta game, choose either Dex or Str to be your dump stat. Fix that stat with bracers. Wisdom should be avg (10) so it doesn't negatively effect your lore score.

    Wear armor and cast spells from scrolls and use wands for magic.

    Choose an unique weapon that you know none of your traveling companions are going to use and some form of missile weapon.

    You play your bard as a utility unit. Each battle his role will change depending on what you think you need a second of. The bard should be your secondary tank, secondary archer and secondary spellcaster.
    He can also be your secondary healer with dream powers.


    If you are kitting, I always prefer Skalds when playing bards since their song inspires his comrades in a support role adding that one other dimension to his abilities.
  • EdwinEdwin Member Posts: 480
    edited January 2013
    atcDave said:

    I like having a bard in the party. I think they also add a lot from a pure role playing perspective. They can useful, but aren't extremely powerful. Unless you're a pure power gamer you should be able to have a lot of fun with one.</blockquote

    This^

    Instead of shadow keeping in God like characters and visiting the 'I'm gonna solo the entire realm' threads, make a reasonable character, perhaps restricting yourself to some well established rolling limits when creating your character. Then pick up some of the weaker NPC's for a less powerfull, but more interesting party from a roll playing standpoint.


  • ZanathKariashiZanathKariashi Member Posts: 2,869
    A Bard with all stats shadowkeepered to 10 can easily solo the whole saga, your stats don't really matter overall though this is technically true of any class though warriors have a harder time since they need heavy armor and that Ankheg plate seems so far away when enemies can hit you from a mile away, in complete darkness, shooting over their shoulder, blindfolded. The carry weight issues are annoying till you get to BG2 and get ready access to str belts, but you do have just enough space for your own gear and a few extras, especially once you get the manuals...that boost to 11 str feels heavenly after being stuck with a 70 lbs carry weight for a large chunk of the game.

    So yes...playing with Ideal stats will make the game easier and less frustrating, but as long as you don't delve into excessive penalties, you can do just fine.

    Not that I haven't solo'd a single class fighter with all stats SK'd to 6....but...that is a masochistic trip I wouldn't advise anyone to take....it's not worth it....do-able...but..ugh...only advised to people that find slamming their hand repeatedly in a car-door as the height of fun and entertainment.
  • LuigirulesLuigirules Member Posts: 419
    Bah, that's nothing. I've beaten the entire series with

    all stats 3
    no armour
    no weapons
    no pausing
    only allowed to cast magic missle
  • The user and all related content has been deleted.
  • Oxford_GuyOxford_Guy Member Posts: 3,729
    CaptRory said:

    Wisdom is your Dump Stat. Try and max everything else. Playing a bard means you can wear several hats depending on what your group needs at any given time. With the right buffs you can be a great tank. You're a strong spellcaster in certain circumstances. And you get free pickpocketing skill.

    If you use Wisdom as a dump stat, then you get a big Lore penalty, one of the strength's of a bard is high lore, for identifying items, so seems perverse to dump this stat, unless playing a Blade (which has nerfed lore anyway). I try to have at least 10 Wis for a bard (no bonus/malus to lore). Strength is less of an issue, though you need 12 Str to use a medium shield or crossbow and 13 to use a halberd, the Strength spell (Level 2) can increase you Strength to 18/50 and later the ogre gloves to 18/00.

    BTW "Friends" is a great spell for a Bard, can increase you Cha from at least 15 to 21, which gives the max store discount

  • Oxford_GuyOxford_Guy Member Posts: 3,729

    Int really isn't important to be completely honest.....13 gives you plenty of room for spells (about 2x per level what a sorc gets and lets face it, Sorcs have PLENTY of room due to how lacking spell variety is), and you can always dump a spell if it's not useful anymore (sleep after BG2 starts..for instance). And sadly there's little difference in learn chance between 13-18...so that's not a concern if you're playing on Core or higher..and even if they randomly decided to enforce int restrictions on spell casting, 13 is high enough to cast 6th level spells...so no loss.

    I dunno, I think high Int is worth it for *any* arcane spell caster playing on core rules or above, some esential scrolls (e.g. Stoneskin) are very hard to find and it's a real pisser to fail to learn them. What I usually do for learning rare scrolls is to wait until I've got a number of scrolls I want to learn, then glug a potion of genius (+4 Int) or similar (there's another potion that gives +3 Int, +3 Dex too), you really want *at least* a 95% chance to learn a spell, which you get at 19 Int (so would need at least base 15 or 16 Int to boost to this with potions), though I prefer an even higher chance to not waste the really good and rare scrolls, and if you start with 18 Int, this can be boosted to 19 after the tome, giving a 95% chance of scroll learning without needing to use a potion, and 99% with a potion of genius, see:

    http://playithardcore.com/pihwiki/index.php?title=Baldur's_Gate:_Races_and_Stats#Intelligence

    Int also helps with lore, of course
  • Oxford_GuyOxford_Guy Member Posts: 3,729


    And I wouldn't dump wis below 9 or it'll cut into your lore and set you back about 2 levels...when your lore is the most valuable.

    You need 10, not 9, Wisdom to avoid the lore penalty, and can't get the Wisdom tomes until quite late, so I wouldn't take this below 10, unless perhaps playing a Blade, which has nerfed lore:
    http://playithardcore.com/pihwiki/index.php?title=Baldur's_Gate:_Races_and_Stats#Wisdom


    18 str is recommended if you plan to melee at all (or anything 14-ish or above for decent carry weight).

    Yes, but high Str is difficult to achieve with a Bard with all your other Stat needs and Stat minimums, and can be increased with spells or gloves, but I would try for a minimum of 14 to be able to carry enough stuff and use most weapons. 15 or 16 would be even better, if you can manage it, as can increase to 16 or 17 with the tome late on to get +1 damage or +1 THAC0/+1 damage, respectively, without spells or gloves


    High dex is pretty much a requirement for AC and better ranged to hit,


    Agreed, and you can increase to 19 with the tome almost as soon as you get to Baldur's Gate for another +1 to missile attacks


    Con can be left at 15 and the manual used for max possible HP.

    Agreed, as that can be got quite early on, or you can use Buckley's Buckler before then, which is a +1 Bucker that also gives +1 Con, available in the FAI


    17 charisma is ok to have, if you can spare the points. With the manual and Algernon's or a Nymph cloak, you can have the max useful 20 charisma. And do so pretty much immediately.

    Though the minimum 15 is enough if you cast Friends (+6 Charisma) before shopping for expensive items, 21 Charisma give the max discount, and base Cha can be increased to 16 with a tome quite early on (and then +2 on top of that for one of the cloaks).


    As to kits...Blades and Skalds can become offensive forces in melee, though Skalds take a bit more work to do so competitively, so you'd probably want 18 str for them. Jesters or plain bards, will likely be ranged exclusively, so it's not as huge a requirement. They can become powerful melee characters in the sequel with proper gear, but by then str belts are ubiquitous, so it's not a huge concern to have raw high str, unless you just feel like it.

    The Skald song is the ultimate buff, till epic levels. So gets better and better the more party mates you have.

    Skalds also get an innate +1 THAC0 *and* +1 damage on *all* melee and ranged attacks, which is very nice, especially when using weapons with a high number of attacks per round and/or hasted

    I think Skald's also have by far the best song (and you can still sneak in some attacks then resume singing with the Skald Song still up for your attack, if you're careful), though you need a full-party of 6 to make the most of it, Blades are probably better for soloing, but I don't see them as "true" bards due to useless song pre-epic levels and nerfed lore *and* pickpockets.


    The regular Bard song....helps offset morale break and shortens fear duration...slightly...it's ok, especially if your party is getting pounded which will cause morale breaking, but if you never really run into problems like that...it's not too useful (gets a little bit better in the sequel, since it starts giving a flat +1 luck bonus at lvl 15, and at 21 +2 luck and fear immunity). The Jester song I'm not very fond of, it can be effective...but doing so requires some very cheesy actions I refuse to take, and is otherwise sub-par and useless until 15+. The Blade song isn't worth using, as it does the exact same thing as the normal bard song, except it never becomes better, well until Epic levels when everyone gets the same song.

    Also - always choose a half-elf, as you at least can benefit from 30% resistance to charm/sleep and have higher minimum stats (so easier to roll higher, the way BG works), and they get a bonus to pickpockets.

    There's some other useful recent threads about bards (especially Skalds) here:
    http://forum.baldursgate.com/discussion/13653/what-is-the-point-of-bard/p1
    and
    http://forum.baldursgate.com/discussion/14037/best-proficiencies-for-a-skald/p1
    and
    http://forum.baldursgate.com/discussion/comment/225768#Comment_225768
    and perhaps this one too:
    http://forum.baldursgate.com/discussion/comment/225699

    Hope this helps!
  • Oxford_GuyOxford_Guy Member Posts: 3,729
    BTW another tip for Bards, don't forget you (but not an NPC Bard or Mage) can cast Find Familiar, either choose this as one of your 2 starting spells at level 2 (along with Friends, unless you've already found a scroll), or you can get this after the Nashkel mines as it's dropped by one of the enemies you meet when you return to Nashkel. Even if you don't use your familiar (though in BGEE, at least, you should), it's up to 12 HP for "free", but be careful not to let your familiar die, as you lose the extra HP *and* permanently lose 1 con. Different alignments gets different familiars, with different abilities.

  • Oxford_GuyOxford_Guy Member Posts: 3,729
    atcDave said:

    I like playing Bards a lot. But you need to keep in mind that you're sort of a utility player. A Bard is vaguely like a thief/Mage, in that they can cast spells and use good weapons (especially bows!). But a few significant differences; they will never get the key thief skills, so the can't really replace a thief.

    Though in BG2 they *do* get many of the Thief HLAs like Use Any Item and Spike Trap... :-)

    They also have a great stronghold quest in BG2, and some Bard-specific magic items, like the Wonderous Gloves (one extra spell for spell levels 1-4) and +3 Melodic Chain (allows casting), as well as a number of magical instruments
    atcDave said:


    They also won't get the highest level Mage spells; that doesn't really matter until late in BGII, but it will eventually matter.
    But the good news is very good. You'll be on an easy experience table, so level ups come frequently. That means your Thac0 will go down fairly quickly (remember that bow!) and your hit points will go up quickly. It also means you do decent damage with your Mage spells, really better than a Mage with the same experience (even though you'll have fewer total spells).

    Skulltap and Dispel Magic are both very good in the hands of a bard for this reason...
    atcDave said:


    Bard Song can be fun to play with too. I'm not sure if it often decides a battle, but it is effective, and the rest of the party will benefit from it.
    I like having a bard in the party. I think they also add a lot from a pure role playing perspective. They can useful, but aren't extremely powerful. Unless you're a pure power gamer you should be able to have a lot of fun with one.

    They require more micromanagement than many classes, but for CHARNAME that can be part of the fun

  • Oxford_GuyOxford_Guy Member Posts: 3,729
    Forse said:

    I dearly recommend playing a bard, it's one of my fav classes. In the long run (BG2 expansion) Blade is the strongest choice, since they all get the improved song. I kind of hope they make some changes to how the high level abilities work, to balance some things out.

    But 3 million XP (level 23/24) is a long time to wait for a Bard song that is any good for a Blade, whereas a Skald gets a great song out of the box, and it gets better at levels 15 and 20. You might also want to pick another HLA (e.g. UAI) first.

  • Oxford_GuyOxford_Guy Member Posts: 3,729
    BTW regarding Bard armour, the elven chain mail is nice, but does give -20% to Pick Pockets, so swap to studded leather or use the Shield Amulet* (which is actually better than the eleven chain, is not that expensive, especially for a bard, and can be recharged by selling/buying) when pick-pocketing
    (see armour table here: http://www.pocketplane.net/volothamp/chap6.htm ), also chain mail gets a +2 penalty against blunt weapons, so is worth wearing the belt that gives a -4 bonus vs. blunt attacks.

    * don't waste spell slots on Armour or Shield, it's not worth it for a Bard, though the later protection spells are great, especially Stone Skins on a Bard, 5 skins at Level 10.

    When all your spells are used up (or you've scouted ahead and decided not to use spells for an encounter), it's worth equiping the +2 Chain Mail instead of the Elven Chain or using the Shield Amulet

    There are two magic bucklers in the game, one is +1 and also gives +1 Con and can be bought very early on, the other is found much later in the game, and is +1 and gives +1 Dex (potentially helping with AC, missile attacks, reaction speed *and* pickpockets), though buckers don't give any protection to piercing *nor* missile attacks (though the +1 bonus from the magic bucklers does), so you may decide it's better to go for single weapon fighting, as can equip a melee weapon when singing/casting for the AC bonus and it's just one click to swap to a bow/crossbow. Also doubles your melee attack (only) criticals to 19-20.

    BTW with UAI in BG2 a bard can use *any* armour (though not cast in it, unless usually allowed), shield or weapon, including Azuredge and Carsomyr (even if evil!), the monk-specific Scarlet Ninja-To +1 APR weapon, and presumably also the Dwarven Throwing axe! Also can then use fighter-specific potions, Mage Robes (including Vecna!), and the Staff of the Magi! Until then a Bard can't use robes or the ring of wizardry, though.

    Definitely use wands alot, sell when they get to one charge, cast Friends and buy back, unless your reputation is really low (even as evil rep 6-8 isn't too bad for prices) the price will be cheap and your should have lots of gold anyway from pickpocketing etc,. (though a Skald is not good at pickpockets until late). Also don't be afraid to use scrolls (unless rare ones that you and your other mage(s) haven't already learned) and potions.

    In BGEE there is only one bard-specific magic item, Greagan's Harp*, though there are potions that only thieves and bards can use (e.g. to help with pickpockets - though am unsure if you can pickpocket Drizzt's Scimitars in the current patch - can anyone confirm?)

    * http://www.gamebanshee.com/showshot.php?/baldursgate/equipment/images/greagansharp.jpg
    and for the location:
    http://www.gamebanshee.com/baldursgate/equipment/miscellaneous.php
  • Oxford_GuyOxford_Guy Member Posts: 3,729
    edited January 2013
    deltago said:

    Even out your stats. If you meta game, choose either Dex or Str to be your dump stat. Fix that stat with bracers. Wisdom should be avg (10) so it doesn't negatively effect your lore score.

    Though if relying on gloves for strength, you can't use the bard-specific Wonderous Gloves in BG2, though I think there is also a Strength belt
    deltago said:


    Wear armor and cast spells from scrolls and use wands for magic.

    Choose an unique weapon that you know none of your traveling companions are going to use and some form of missile weapon.

    If playing a Skald, choose a ranged weapon with high APR (at least 2) as your innate +1 damage and the +2 Skald Song damage bonus (if you can keep it going for all your attacks) all adds up...
    deltago said:


    You play your bard as a utility unit. Each battle his role will change depending on what you think you need a second of. The bard should be your secondary tank, secondary archer and secondary spellcaster.

    He can also be your secondary healer with dream powers.

    Also:


    with Draw Upon Holy might as a Dream power and the Bards ability to level quicky, can buff well.


    One reason why a good-aligned or neutral bard (which is more likely to have rep > 10) is perhaps better, as well as the cheaper store prices for recharging wands and buying potions and scrolls, though the Neutral Evil familiar (Dust Mephit) is perhaps better than the Pseudo Dragon
    deltago said:


    If you are kitting, I always prefer Skalds when playing bards since their song inspires his comrades in a support role adding that one other dimension to his abilities.

    Agreed, I really don't like Blades, they don't seem like a "proper" bard

  • Oxford_GuyOxford_Guy Member Posts: 3,729
    Also, I *think* Skald song also buff Summons and Familiars, though have asked for confirmation here:
    http://forum.baldursgate.com/discussion/14114/does-skald-song-also-buff-summons-and-familiars

    If so, great way to multiply the power of these and to help protect your familiar (and if good aligned to actually make him decent in combat)! :-)
  • ZanathKariashiZanathKariashi Member Posts: 2,869
    edited January 2013
    Bards don't learn any spells at creation. (only in BG2 do they start with spells)

    Also as I said, the difference between 13 and 18 int is almost non-existent (both give you a better then 50% chance to learn) and certainly not worth gimping yourself for so little gain...unless you have 19+ int, there's no appreciable difference in chance to learn. If the game decides to screw you, nothing short of 24 int will protect you from spell failure, which is impossible, aside from downing potions (which works just as well at any int level).

    I meant 9 or lower, when talking about wisdom.

    Also, bards cannot equip the ogre str gauntlets, only warriors and priests can. And str spells aren't really that useful, they take up slots better spent on Debuffs or damage avoidance, since the best one only gives you +1 hit/+1 damage over 18 str (aka the same as a Skald with 18 str has at all times), and you miss out on getting a raw 19 from the str manual, where as once you get at least 1 casting of DUHM you'd be able to instantly go from 18 to 20, or even 21 (22 if base 19), depending on your bard level at the time.

    A blade still gets almost double the lore a thief or a mage does, so their lore penalty is a joke.
  • Oxford_GuyOxford_Guy Member Posts: 3,729
    edited January 2013

    Bards don't learn any spells at creation. (only in BG2 do they start with spells)

    Sorry, you're correct there, they just get the slots at level 2, I was getting that and dualing to a mage confused. At least you can get a Find Familiar scroll after the Nashkel Mines in BGEE (couldn't in BG1/Tutu/BGT) and the Friends scroll can be bought at High Hedge, I think.

    Also as I said, the difference between 13 and 18 int is almost non-existent (both give you a better then 50% chance to learn) and certainly not worth gimping yourself for so little gain...unless you have 19+ int, there's no appreciable difference in chance to learn. If the game decides to screw you, nothing short of 24 int will protect you from spell failure, which is impossible, aside from downing potions (which works just as well at any int level).
    There's a *big* difference of learning a spell between 13 and, say, 17 or 18:

    Int 13 - 55% chance of successfully scribing a scroll
    Int 14 - 60%
    Int 15 - 65%
    Int 16 - 70%
    Int 17 - 75%
    Int 18 - 85%
    Int 19 - 95% (you can get 19 int with a tome)
    Int 20 - 96%
    Int 21 - 97%
    Int 22 - 98% (Int 18 + potion of genius)
    Int 23 - 99%
    Int 24 - 100%

    Also with 18/19 and a potion you can almost guarantee learning your scroll, given how limited some scrolls are, I'd rather not risk it, and consider reloading "cheating".

    I meant 9 or lower, when talking about wisdom.

    Also, bards cannot equip the ogre str gauntlets, only warriors and priests can.

    Sorry, I forgot that, not until UAI anyway, but that's a *long* way away from the start of BGEE...

    And str spells aren't really that useful, they take up slots better spent on Debuffs or damage avoidance, since the best one only gives you +1 hit/+1 damage over 18 str (aka the same as a Skald with 18 str has at all times), and you miss out on getting a raw 19 from the str manual, where as once you get at least 1 casting of DUHM you'd be able to instantly go from 18 to 20, or even 21 (22 if base 19), depending on your bard level at the time.

    A blade still gets almost double the lore a thief or a mage does, so their lore penalty is a joke.

    As is the Blade's song until 3million XP ;-)
  • HempoHempo Member Posts: 12
    Just to clarify, does the enhanced bard song still require that the bard do nothing else?
  • ZanathKariashiZanathKariashi Member Posts: 2,869
    Technically...but if you use fast spells or very fast speed weapons, you can squeeze in a spell or a couple attacks without it dropping off. It takes a bit of practice to get a feel for the timing though.


    55% and 85% are ultimately just as likely to succeed or fail...the higher number just means you're gonna have a MUCH harder time rolling other, far more important over all stats. I run with 13 base exclusively for all my bards and almost never fail, certainly no more then I do with an 18 int mage. The bonuses just aren't high enough to go beyond mere succeed or fail...as long as you're over 50%, you're more likely to succeed and that's all that matter. And if you're the type to horde do or die spells until you can buff your int with potions, then your int doesn't matter, since you'll buff to 100% success anyway.

    Me personally, I don't care. If a spell fails, and there's no more copies, I'll do without and just use something else to pick up the slack. Even if you never learned a single spell, the ability to use wands and cast from scrolls alone makes you superior to a plain warrior.
  • Oxford_GuyOxford_Guy Member Posts: 3,729


    55% and 85% are ultimately just as likely to succeed or fail...the higher number just means you're gonna have a MUCH harder time rolling other, far more important over all stats. I run with 13 base exclusively for all my bards and almost never fail, certainly no more then I do with an 18 int mage. The bonuses just aren't high enough to go beyond mere succeed or fail...as long as you're over 50%, you're more likely to succeed and that's all that matter. And if you're the type to horde do or die spells until you can buff your int with potions, then your int doesn't matter, since you'll buff to 100% success anyway.
    .

    But potions of genius only add +4, they don't set your Int to, say 22/23, so you need a high start base. I do understand your argument, though, arguably high Str is more useful more often.
  • ZanathKariashiZanathKariashi Member Posts: 2,869
    edited January 2013
    Yeah, but they stack, and at the end of the day, having high str is always preferable if you can manage it.

    Hell, since they insist on not enforcing the min int requirement for casting (which wouldn't effect a 13 in bard in anyway), I don't even bother making mages with high int any more. It's only useful if you plan to wish, since int and wis are both used to generate the list (wis only for limited wish)...but ever since I stopped using wish-resting, it just hasn't been a huge issue. It also makes BG1 solos tolerable since you can actually carry a decent amount of treasure, and a LOT of treasure once you get the str manual.
  • Oxford_GuyOxford_Guy Member Posts: 3,729


    55% and 85% are ultimately just as likely to succeed or fail...the higher number just means you're gonna have a MUCH harder time rolling other, far more important over all stats. I run with 13 base exclusively for all my bards and almost never fail, certainly no more then I do with an 18 int mage. The bonuses just aren't high enough to go beyond mere succeed or fail...as long as you're over 50%, you're more likely to succeed and that's all that matter. And if you're the type to horde do or die spells until you can buff your int with potions, then your int doesn't matter, since you'll buff to 100% success anyway.
    .

    But potions of genius only add +4, they don't set your Int to, say 22/23, so you need a high start base. I do understand your argument, though, arguably high Str is more useful more often.
    Actually I think 15 Int would be okay, you can get to 95% learn with one potion of genius, and get +5 lore, for me that would probably be the minimum I would compromise on.
Sign In or Register to comment.