help with a bard
pipinho
Member Posts: 55
i really want to play a bard but have no idea on how to build or even play one. As a member of a party , how are bards
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I like the idea of bards, I just did a playthrough with a PC Bard. While not gimped, I must say it was abit hard to motivate at times... He is DEFO not a rogue, and not a true mage. Furthermore there is no proper armors in BG1 that permits spellcasting putting the bard in an awkward postion...
Either way, max dex/int and get decent STR and CON, depending if u plan to melee.
Essentially, all extra int gives you is a tiny bit more lore...which if you don't dump wis to get the points for that high int in first place, you won't even need.
And I wouldn't dump wis below 9 or it'll cut into your lore and set you back about 2 levels...when your lore is the most valuable.
18 str is recommended if you plan to melee at all (or anything 14-ish or above for decent carry weight). High dex is pretty much a requirement for AC and better ranged to hit, Con can be left at 15 and the manual used for max possible HP. 17 charisma is ok to have, if you can spare the points. With the manual and Algernon's or a Nymph cloak, you can have the max useful 20 charisma. And do so pretty much immediately.
As to kits...Blades and Skalds can become offensive forces in melee, though Skalds take a bit more work to do so competitively, so you'd probably want 18 str for them. Jesters or plain bards, will likely be ranged exclusively, so it's not as huge a requirement. They can become powerful melee characters in the sequel with proper gear, but by then str belts are ubiquitous, so it's not a huge concern to have raw high str, unless you just feel like it.
The Skald song is the ultimate buff, till epic levels. So gets better and better the more party mates you have. The regular Bard song....helps offset morale break and shortens fear duration...slightly...it's ok, especially if your party is getting pounded which will cause morale breaking, but if you never really run into problems like that...it's not too useful (gets a little bit better in the sequel, since it starts giving a flat +1 luck bonus at lvl 15, and at 21 +2 luck and fear immunity). The Jester song I'm not very fond of, it can be effective...but doing so requires some very cheesy actions I refuse to take, and is otherwise sub-par and useless until 15+. The Blade song isn't worth using, as it does the exact same thing as the normal bard song, except it never becomes better, well until Epic levels when everyone gets the same song.
Also there's the elven chain that is dropped at the Dorn encounter. (I use Shadowkeeper after I complete the fight, and give it to myself), which is quite a nice armor for a bard.
Another thing I have noticed. If you want to feel more powerful as a bard you should take a mage which can't use spells that you might need (like Xan) and have your bard learn them. It will allow your bard to be more important because for example he is the only one that can learn Evocation spells. But even in a group with a lot of magic extra fire power is never a bad thing, and your bard will do more damage then your other spellcasters because of his higher level.
But the good news is very good. You'll be on an easy experience table, so level ups come frequently. That means your Thac0 will go down fairly quickly (remember that bow!) and your hit points will go up quickly. It also means you do decent damage with your Mage spells, really better than a Mage with the same experience (even though you'll have fewer total spells).
Bard Song can be fun to play with too. I'm not sure if it often decides a battle, but it is effective, and the rest of the party will benefit from it.
I like having a bard in the party. I think they also add a lot from a pure role playing perspective. They can useful, but aren't extremely powerful. Unless you're a pure power gamer you should be able to have a lot of fun with one.
But a bard is a great class, and even though it falls short of some of the multiclasses in terms of power, it's a great single class.
Wear armor and cast spells from scrolls and use wands for magic.
Choose an unique weapon that you know none of your traveling companions are going to use and some form of missile weapon.
You play your bard as a utility unit. Each battle his role will change depending on what you think you need a second of. The bard should be your secondary tank, secondary archer and secondary spellcaster.
If you are kitting, I always prefer Skalds when playing bards since their song inspires his comrades in a support role adding that one other dimension to his abilities.
So yes...playing with Ideal stats will make the game easier and less frustrating, but as long as you don't delve into excessive penalties, you can do just fine.
Not that I haven't solo'd a single class fighter with all stats SK'd to 6....but...that is a masochistic trip I wouldn't advise anyone to take....it's not worth it....do-able...but..ugh...only advised to people that find slamming their hand repeatedly in a car-door as the height of fun and entertainment.
all stats 3
no armour
no weapons
no pausing
only allowed to cast magic missle
BTW "Friends" is a great spell for a Bard, can increase you Cha from at least 15 to 21, which gives the max store discount
http://playithardcore.com/pihwiki/index.php?title=Baldur's_Gate:_Races_and_Stats#Intelligence
Int also helps with lore, of course
http://playithardcore.com/pihwiki/index.php?title=Baldur's_Gate:_Races_and_Stats#Wisdom Yes, but high Str is difficult to achieve with a Bard with all your other Stat needs and Stat minimums, and can be increased with spells or gloves, but I would try for a minimum of 14 to be able to carry enough stuff and use most weapons. 15 or 16 would be even better, if you can manage it, as can increase to 16 or 17 with the tome late on to get +1 damage or +1 THAC0/+1 damage, respectively, without spells or gloves
They also have a great stronghold quest in BG2, and some Bard-specific magic items, like the Wonderous Gloves (one extra spell for spell levels 1-4) and +3 Melodic Chain (allows casting), as well as a number of magical instruments Skulltap and Dispel Magic are both very good in the hands of a bard for this reason... They require more micromanagement than many classes, but for CHARNAME that can be part of the fun
(see armour table here: http://www.pocketplane.net/volothamp/chap6.htm ), also chain mail gets a +2 penalty against blunt weapons, so is worth wearing the belt that gives a -4 bonus vs. blunt attacks.
* don't waste spell slots on Armour or Shield, it's not worth it for a Bard, though the later protection spells are great, especially Stone Skins on a Bard, 5 skins at Level 10.
When all your spells are used up (or you've scouted ahead and decided not to use spells for an encounter), it's worth equiping the +2 Chain Mail instead of the Elven Chain or using the Shield Amulet
There are two magic bucklers in the game, one is +1 and also gives +1 Con and can be bought very early on, the other is found much later in the game, and is +1 and gives +1 Dex (potentially helping with AC, missile attacks, reaction speed *and* pickpockets), though buckers don't give any protection to piercing *nor* missile attacks (though the +1 bonus from the magic bucklers does), so you may decide it's better to go for single weapon fighting, as can equip a melee weapon when singing/casting for the AC bonus and it's just one click to swap to a bow/crossbow. Also doubles your melee attack (only) criticals to 19-20.
BTW with UAI in BG2 a bard can use *any* armour (though not cast in it, unless usually allowed), shield or weapon, including Azuredge and Carsomyr (even if evil!), the monk-specific Scarlet Ninja-To +1 APR weapon, and presumably also the Dwarven Throwing axe! Also can then use fighter-specific potions, Mage Robes (including Vecna!), and the Staff of the Magi! Until then a Bard can't use robes or the ring of wizardry, though.
Definitely use wands alot, sell when they get to one charge, cast Friends and buy back, unless your reputation is really low (even as evil rep 6-8 isn't too bad for prices) the price will be cheap and your should have lots of gold anyway from pickpocketing etc,. (though a Skald is not good at pickpockets until late). Also don't be afraid to use scrolls (unless rare ones that you and your other mage(s) haven't already learned) and potions.
In BGEE there is only one bard-specific magic item, Greagan's Harp*, though there are potions that only thieves and bards can use (e.g. to help with pickpockets - though am unsure if you can pickpocket Drizzt's Scimitars in the current patch - can anyone confirm?)
* http://www.gamebanshee.com/showshot.php?/baldursgate/equipment/images/greagansharp.jpg
and for the location:
http://www.gamebanshee.com/baldursgate/equipment/miscellaneous.php
with Draw Upon Holy might as a Dream power and the Bards ability to level quicky, can buff well.
One reason why a good-aligned or neutral bard (which is more likely to have rep > 10) is perhaps better, as well as the cheaper store prices for recharging wands and buying potions and scrolls, though the Neutral Evil familiar (Dust Mephit) is perhaps better than the Pseudo Dragon
Agreed, I really don't like Blades, they don't seem like a "proper" bard
http://forum.baldursgate.com/discussion/14114/does-skald-song-also-buff-summons-and-familiars
If so, great way to multiply the power of these and to help protect your familiar (and if good aligned to actually make him decent in combat)! :-)
Also as I said, the difference between 13 and 18 int is almost non-existent (both give you a better then 50% chance to learn) and certainly not worth gimping yourself for so little gain...unless you have 19+ int, there's no appreciable difference in chance to learn. If the game decides to screw you, nothing short of 24 int will protect you from spell failure, which is impossible, aside from downing potions (which works just as well at any int level).
I meant 9 or lower, when talking about wisdom.
Also, bards cannot equip the ogre str gauntlets, only warriors and priests can. And str spells aren't really that useful, they take up slots better spent on Debuffs or damage avoidance, since the best one only gives you +1 hit/+1 damage over 18 str (aka the same as a Skald with 18 str has at all times), and you miss out on getting a raw 19 from the str manual, where as once you get at least 1 casting of DUHM you'd be able to instantly go from 18 to 20, or even 21 (22 if base 19), depending on your bard level at the time.
A blade still gets almost double the lore a thief or a mage does, so their lore penalty is a joke.
Int 13 - 55% chance of successfully scribing a scroll
Int 14 - 60%
Int 15 - 65%
Int 16 - 70%
Int 17 - 75%
Int 18 - 85%
Int 19 - 95% (you can get 19 int with a tome)
Int 20 - 96%
Int 21 - 97%
Int 22 - 98% (Int 18 + potion of genius)
Int 23 - 99%
Int 24 - 100%
Also with 18/19 and a potion you can almost guarantee learning your scroll, given how limited some scrolls are, I'd rather not risk it, and consider reloading "cheating". Sorry, I forgot that, not until UAI anyway, but that's a *long* way away from the start of BGEE...
As is the Blade's song until 3million XP ;-)
55% and 85% are ultimately just as likely to succeed or fail...the higher number just means you're gonna have a MUCH harder time rolling other, far more important over all stats. I run with 13 base exclusively for all my bards and almost never fail, certainly no more then I do with an 18 int mage. The bonuses just aren't high enough to go beyond mere succeed or fail...as long as you're over 50%, you're more likely to succeed and that's all that matter. And if you're the type to horde do or die spells until you can buff your int with potions, then your int doesn't matter, since you'll buff to 100% success anyway.
Me personally, I don't care. If a spell fails, and there's no more copies, I'll do without and just use something else to pick up the slack. Even if you never learned a single spell, the ability to use wands and cast from scrolls alone makes you superior to a plain warrior.
Hell, since they insist on not enforcing the min int requirement for casting (which wouldn't effect a 13 in bard in anyway), I don't even bother making mages with high int any more. It's only useful if you plan to wish, since int and wis are both used to generate the list (wis only for limited wish)...but ever since I stopped using wish-resting, it just hasn't been a huge issue. It also makes BG1 solos tolerable since you can actually carry a decent amount of treasure, and a LOT of treasure once you get the str manual.