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Battle Music/Lifeforce (1985)

MeroveusMeroveus Member Posts: 14
in Archive (General Discussion)
Watched this again today after a long time. Kinda have to say that the Main Theme sure sounds familiar.

What do you guys think?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gIbhpGcRlm0

Comments

  • DarkDoggDarkDogg Member Posts: 598
    edited January 2013
    Piracy!!!11

    The movie is great. Was... 15 years ago...
  • AlkaluropsAlkalurops Member Posts: 269
    This one?
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qrnDOjkKkAA
  • MeroveusMeroveus Member Posts: 14
    That would be it. Its not exactly the same but close enough.
  • MichailMichail Member Posts: 196
    Hm... The music for baldur's gate was written by Michael Hoenig. And a major part of his work was writting music for films, so he probably knew of Mancini's work, even without having to watch the film. An obvious influence.
  • atcDaveatcDave Member Posts: 2,387
    Michail said:

    Hm... The music for baldur's gate was written by Michael Hoenig. And a major part of his work was writting music for films, so he probably knew of Mancini's work, even without having to watch the film. An obvious influence.

    I'm sure most composers are well familiar with Henry Mancini's work; absolutely brilliant musician. And its funny since I've had both the LifeForce Main Title and Baldur's Gate score on my iPod for six years now, they are obviously "related". I can only guess that the Mancini Estate was either unaware of BG or decided it wasn't worth the trouble of a lawsuit.
  • MichailMichail Member Posts: 196
    @atcDave
    Hush.. lest they decide to sue now...
  • AnduinAnduin Member Posts: 5,745
    AWESOME!!!!
  • atcDaveatcDave Member Posts: 2,387
    Michail said:

    @atcDave
    Hush.. lest they decide to sue now...

    Sorry! ...errr, never mind...

  • KnettgummiKnettgummi Member Posts: 152
    Wow, that's unmistakably similar! And it's been far too long since I watched Lifeforce...
  • ReadingRamboReadingRambo Member Posts: 598
    edited January 2013
    To me that sounds also similiar to a nfl films song, I think by Sam spence. Time to pour over clips til I can find it lol

    Edit: found it.. Not sure how to link on my iPhone, Sam Spence - the Equalizer http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=LY1b2CzlELs&desktop_uri=/watch?v=LY1b2CzlELs
    Post edited by ReadingRambo on
  • ReadingRamboReadingRambo Member Posts: 598
    edited January 2013
    Lol after reading the criticism section of Sam Spence's wiki page he has been accused of ripping off some of Henry Mancini work. But the equalizer was written before the music for Lifeforce so I guess he returned the favor lol
  • MeroveusMeroveus Member Posts: 14
    Baldur's Gridiron... the plot thickens..
  • MichailMichail Member Posts: 196
    edited January 2013
    ReadingRambo said:

    Lol after reading the criticism section of Sam Spence's wiki page he has been accused of ripping off some of Henry Mancini work. But the equalizer was written before the music for Lifeforce so I guess he returned the favor lol

    If that is the case, they were ripping off each other. Sam Spence was known for getting "inspiration" from other musicians, including Mancini. So Spence wouldn't complain even if he himself "inspired" them back. And the others will not complain if they get ripped off in turn because they got the "inspiration" from someone else to begin with. Comfusing as well as inspiring, I'd say.

    P.S. (EDIT): The link you provided doesn't work for me. It's this, right?
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LY1b2CzlELs
    Post edited by Michail on
  • KharadorKharador Member Posts: 215
    edited May 2013
    Here it is!! the "original" soundtrack of BG: Enhanced Edition

    http://youtu.be/KqNquDlAanE

    It begins in minute 1:00
    It's great to see how Beamdog can change the past to include original soundtracks of BG:EE into 80' horror movies.
  • GodKaiserHellGodKaiserHell Member Posts: 398
    edited July 2016
     
    Post edited by GodKaiserHell on
  • BelgarathMTHBelgarathMTH Member Posts: 5,653
    edited June 2013
    All orchestral movie music composers borrow heavily from the master composers who lived from about 1850 to about 1925. John Williams, for example, borrows heavily from Holst and Wagner for Star Wars. James Horner draws heavily from Mahler. All sci-fi orchestra soundtracks use musical idioms established by Prokofiev and Shostakovich. A lot of those original pieces by the old masters are still copywrited from the early 1900's.

    But, it is very difficult to legally establish ownership of a cultural musical idiom, unless someone reproduces a score note for note. Lawsuits rarely happen about this kind of thing, because while the tracks draw upon the same musical idea, they are not exact replicas of each other.

    What we have here is an established sci-fi and high fantasy battle music idiom, that is rhythmically in fast 12/8 time (played "in four"), with heavy accents on all three eighth notes on beat four of each measure. Strings and snare drum play staccato eighth note followed by four sixteenths on each of the four beats within each measure, punctuated by heavy percussion like bass drum, tympani, and gong.

    Brass play an aggressive, soaring "call to battle" melody over this rhythmic accompaniment, with various obligati and runs played by woodwinds and violins.

    That brass melody is where you get the most differentation. The Baldur's Gate version also contains some meter changes not present in the other examples. (Musicologists would call it hemiola - for two bars, it switches from "1 and a 2 and a 3 and a 4 AND A" to a heavily accented and separated " 1- AND - 2 - AND - 3 - AND - 4 - AND".)

    So we're talking about a musical style, and you can't copyright a style; only a specific score can be copyrighted.

    I applaud how people here have found two other soundtrack examples that are remarkably similar to the Baldur's Gate version. We have some very musically aware people here.
  • MichailMichail Member Posts: 196
    I am not sure i'd characterise it as merely "style" or as a derivative work. But i am not a musicologist and I concede the point. That, however, leaves open the question of their common inspiration. Since Sam Spence (from what i gather he wrote the earliest version i know of) is dead an unavailable to clarify, I issue a challenge! I say we break open our music libraries and look for it.
    My guess: Since Mancini was not known as a plagiarist, it's probably an obscure part, possibly even only a couple of meters, of an uncopyrighted work by a classical composer.
  • zur312zur312 Member Posts: 1,366
    its like starcraft 2 theme protoss and star wars
  • MichailMichail Member Posts: 196
    edited June 2013
    Call me crazy, but i think the rhythm resembles the beginning of children of the grave, from the black sabbath "master of reality" album, dating back to 1971. Tell me what you think.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9rihpED_obk
  • MichailMichail Member Posts: 196
    I found this as well, but i don't recall the theme actually being in the movie. It starts at about 1:00. I think it's Mancini's version.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3IsWL-9kRis
  • BelgarathMTHBelgarathMTH Member Posts: 5,653
    @Michail, good catch on that movie trailer! It's hard to hear it clearly over all the dialogue and sound effects going on.

    I think the Black Sabbath example uses the base rhythm of the style, but it's missing the three eighth notes with heavy accents on the fourth beat of the measure, so it's not a perfect example.

    The beat of the battle piece is "ONE and ee and a TWO and ee and a THREE and ee and a FOUR AND A". The Black Sabbath beat just does the one-eighth-four-sixteenths on all four beats.
  • Aasimar069Aasimar069 Member Posts: 803
    Also, speaking "rip offs"

    There is a great likelihood between Fallout 3's main theme and Risen Main theme (both are menu musics).

    Can't link them now, but I guess Risen's theme was released later, and thus Fallout 3's theme must have been the inspiration.
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