Character decision paralysis

Rhaegar

Anyone else share my affliction? Ever since the earliest BG1 and 2 days, I have never had an easy time settling on a character in these games.

It wasn't so bad in BG1, I didn't know much back then, I just made a ranger (admittedly made 3 before I could settle on a race) and played through the game.

Bg2 was a whole other story. By then I was an informed and highly knowledgeable power gamer. I think I made every class at one point or another and played through the same first few zones so many times. The funny part is just out of habit I do things in the same order every time regardless of class.

In high school when I was bored in class, I would doodle charts comparing the pro's and cons of all the different classes and try and give them everall scores to help me decide which I liked most (I'm sure you can tell now that I got all the ladies... lol)

Pretty much the only thing I know I am not interested in is a divine caster. I want a fighter/mage but I also want a ranger and paladin, and a bit of a thief... lol

Eventually I just played the game through with my ranger from BG1. Subsequent replays included multiple aborted runs with Paladins, fighter/mage, sorcerer, ranger/cleric, and monk. I actually went back to Bg2 a few years ago and completed SoA (not ToB though) with a fighter/thief and I think I enjoyed that the most, it was like an upgraded ranger!


So here I am with BG EE, and back to my same old habits. It makes no sense, I did this endlessly 10+ years ago and I know nearly every class and kit stat by memory. I should know by now. To attempt to alleviate this, I played a fighter/mage/thief for a few levels, then I decided I wanted to try an evil run, so I restarted as an evil F/M/T. Then I got the NPC's I wanted and decided F/M/T was too much multi, so I made a Fighter/Mage.


Now it seems in addition to my class conundrums, I now cant decide between good, evil, or neutral (if that even really works...).... one more thing to endlessly restart the game and keep repeating the same areas pre-nashkel mines, again and again and again....


share your stories if you feel my pain!

Mykra

I feel your pain. I can get excited about each class, thinking of how I will equip them, make parties around them, play them...but I just get stuck in neutral carrying it out as the next shiny thing catches my eye. I think my biggest problem is I love the spellcasters so much, I've played them so much, that when I try to break the mold and go melee I miss the interactivity I had. I'm not a huge 4E PnP fan, but I wish the melee kits in this game had a few abilities to use to spice things up.

I'm pretty rock solid on playing CG or NG if possible. Just seems to be what comes most naturally to me, and I haven't had much desire to run an evil party (although I don't mind having 1-2 evil NPC's running with the group.)

JLee

I have created a lot of characters, thinking along the same lines as you describe. Also have lots of notes jotted down on scraps of paper with different npc pairings and proposed weapon proficiencies. It's funny having to explain to my wife what the heck "Belm" means.

I am in a rut with the Berserker>Mage. Despite many false starts, no other character holds my interest long enough. And I seem utterly incapable of roleplaying an evil party. Always the goody two shoes...

Perhaps you are just into the fighter/thief concept to the point of boredom with other playing styles? Have you tried a Stalker? Seems like it might be in your wheelhouse. A bard build, Jack-of-all trades and whatnot?

cyberarmy

I have created 6 characters since i installed BG EE and still having toughts on some other combos...
And i havent touched shadowkeeper yet even. /inserthomerdoh!


My first was an archer. 4 man goody shoes ranged party.

After that one finished Nashkel mines, i changed my mind and there goes my second. Half orc fighter/thief. Evil to the bone and a lone wolf.

Dumped him after killing Drizzt... And moved on to third, dwarven figther/cleric. Made it to the Baldurs Gate after cleaning all of Sword Coast. This is still my "main", dual wielding warhammers for justice!

But then i tried an evil Skald after played a while i ditched her (that sounded wrong)I want try shadowkeeper if i can dual class a fighter to skald/bard after lvl 3/6.

Created a neutral sorceress and aimed for a neutral party, this one still holds my interest.

And for last an evil berserker/priest probably gonna finish with this one after my warhammer.

ReadingRambo

Definitely feel your pain. The only class I was able to beat ToB with was a paladin. I usually abort runs with an idea that a new character concept will flesh out a party to perfection (in video games and art I very much tend to be a perfectionist).

I tend to run out of steam in the under dark in bg 2. I've actually played thru ToB only once because of this habit! I have a fighter dualled to cleric sitting in the under dark, presumably trying to stay alive with the half elf fighter Mage I left there as well.

Right now I'm having a rough time in bg ee deciding what to finish with. Ive started a ranger cleric but he makes me miss swords so much. I might just play a paladin again, as I just love the idea of a holy warrior Demi god trying to resist the pull of an evil heritage. Plus wielding one of (if not the) most powerful swords in the Realms is cool too

I think rather attached to the hip with carsomyr. The ToB fights seem scary without it lol

Edit: just remembered I beat it with a sorcerer as well

Rhaegar

Only thing I know Is I want a mage of some sort, either a sorcerer or a fighter/mage,

Show me a way to play a ranger/mage and I will be completely cured...

Wilbur

@Rhaegar

OMG you sound just like me! I've had this problem recently with ALL AD&D crpg games I have played. With some games it has gotten so out of hand that eventually I haven't played the game at all (some gold box AD&D games come to mind). The weird thing is that in a twisted way I enjoy doing stat comparison etc almost as much as playing the game. When I bought BG2 it took me several years to finally complete the game because intially I restarted my game so many times with different characters that I finally got bored

Rhaegar

Everyone knows that the real game in Bg1 is rolling your stats

I know I've mostly narrowed it down between a fighter/mage, F/M/T or a sorcerer, it still doesn't make it any easier though!

Khyron

I have massive issues with this myself. I've spent countless hours on EE already, but I've not come further than just inside Baldur's Gate hehe..

The classes I "want to play" and the drawbacks I see in them:

Fighter/Mage - Lacking thieving skills.. prefer Humans.
Fighter/Thief - Sort of boring without fancy mage spells like Fireshield Red/Blue
Paladin - Played too much already, don't much appreciate the "strict" limits of their "RP options"
Stalker - A thief'ish char with no thieving? Also, Fighter avatar/paperdoll with leather armor looks odd
Fighter dualed to Mage - Quite crap, too low xp cap to make it effective
Fighter dualed to Thief - Back to looking rather odd with leather armor and steel helmet.
Blade - Kind of like a crap F/M
Swashbuckler - Kind of like a crap F/T
Fighter dualed to Cleric - I'm a sword addict.. my PC must use swords.. i hate blunties.
Shapeshifter - Druids are sort of lame.. not convinced Werewolf form is actually any good.
F/M/T - End up with 3 crap classes in Bg1 due to low xp cap, won't be effective.

This would all be solved, if I could have swords on my cleric builds.. I'd love that. xD

SirK8

I too have this problem, several restarts cause I want to try something new. The current solution for me is the Black Pits. You get to try out 6 classes at one time and see how they level pretty quickly and how they do in combat. It's really helped me focus on completing my current play though. Any time think oooh oooh I want to try a dual wielding cleric/ranger, oh wait, no what about a quarterstaff backstabbing 19 STR half-orc fighter/thief or whatever, I go roll up a Black Pits team. Yeah, and I still haven't played all the way through the Black Pits, cause I keep wanting to try new things. But then when I'm in the mood for story/campaign mode I go back to my current play through. This may not work for everyone, but it's been great for me. We all know half the fun is just thinking up a team, rolling it, and then never playing it

Rhaegar

I feel like a fighter/thief is fun but I would really miss not having spells

A fighter mage is great but not sure how much I would enjoy it in bG1 with lower level spells

F/M/T is awesome and everything I want, but a little too slow to level

Sorcerer I have always wanted to play as I prefer it over normal mages, and only the PC can do it, but in BG1 again being a pure caster and only having low end spells would suck...

ReadingRambo

My cure would be a paladin sorcerer rogue ranger cleric that can dual wield carsomyr and crom faeyr, romance Vicky, jaheira, and aerie all at once, have every stronghold, and who's race shifts according to my current whim! If I could just have these!

Mykra

Khyron said:

Also, Fighter avatar/paperdoll with leather armor looks odd

CLUAConsole:EnableCheatKeys()

And then CTRL+6 and CTRL+7 to cycle through the different paperdolls. No multi-class shall deny me my hood, by the Gods!

Rhaegar

ReadingRambo said:

My cure would be a paladin sorcerer rogue ranger cleric that can dual wield carsomyr and crom faeyr, romance Vicky, jaheira, and aerie all at once, have every stronghold, and who's race shifts according to my current whim! If I could just have these!

Oh come on now, that's just silly :P

I've narrowed it down to less than a handful of combo's, which is way better than I used to do, so that's something at least...

Lifat

I definitely did the same thing at first. And add to that being a completionist meaning I had to do every little side quest and every little secret. And I had to do it in the shortest amount of in-game time aswell...
But I've since learned that actually playing the entire game and not just a few zones really improves the game. And not worrying about the in-game time has also added to my enjoyment.

Tinter

I pick my PC fairly easily, the problem is I like to preplan my party (and sometimes BG2 and TOB parties as well!) before I start playing, and making that decision can result in a lot of stalling.

Wilbur

Tinter said:

I pick my PC fairly easily, the problem is I like to preplan my party (and sometimes BG2 and TOB parties as well!) before I start playing, and making that decision can result in a lot of stalling.

Choosing satisfying party members can be one hell of a job. The fact that I can't play without Imoen makes it a little easier though.

ReadingRambo

I've finally decided on a pc, that being a female helf ranger cleric. my two longest playthroughs were with a human paladin and elf sorcerer ( might have been half elf) so this should be different yet powerful as well.

Never played a female charname before so it should be interesting. I'm using the f_sorc1 voice from IWD ("let's show them our mettle!") and the beautiful portrait made for the mod npc Kiyone. Never played that mod before but I found the portrait the other day and she is very lovely! One of the best matches of the bg 2 art style I've seen in a custom portrait.

One of my favorite parts to being a ranger cleric is that I don't feel tied to many npcs except dearest sister Imoen. It makes a lot of room for npcs I've neglected in the past in favor if a balanced party.

I'm really liking her a lot. I rolled really well on abilities so she is physically powerful and I've found command to be a huge lifesaver in the early goings.

Can't wait to get coran! I never have him because his voice set is the same actor as the default bg voice that i always use for males so that always bugged me. Don't have that problem this run

DinsdalePiranha

it's a dire condition indeed... I've sat on BGEE for days before actually starting a character (I know that for me, starting and restarting tends to lead to giving up), and I'm still not sure 'zerker -> cleric is what I want to play. (too much love for FMTs)

however, whereas it's bad in Baldur's Gate, it's *so much fucking worse* in the IWD series (and even more so in ToEE), when you have to put together an entire party, all by yourself. no picking about in the pool of mediocre NPCs, make your own, do your best. also, make your party a tiny one, because when infinity engine's pathfinding meets a dungeon crawler with tight corridors and a huge party running about, there will a lot of swearing.

luckily, by that point (and after a few runs at it), I was metagame-y enough to know what I wanted, but still... hurgh.

Rhaegar

I actually find IWD easier to deal with because I usually have 3-4 characters I really want to try at a given time, and in IWD I can go ahead and make them all at once without worrying about what my "main" will be

Aristillius

Go Chaotic good elven fighter/mage

Lots of fun, cant go wrong

I have the same porblem as you, but I finally just made up my mind.
The fighter mage can make himself invisible, and packs a good punch - even unbuffed, AND levels up nearly as well as the pure class NPCs.

the_spyder

I absolutely feel your pain. I am just at the cusp of chapter 6 in BG1 with my "Usual" Wizard and I have this desire to go back and start again as a Half orc Fighter/Thief. It is very frustrating.

Way I figure it, although the game isn't "Balanced" it is balanced enough such that each class/race combination to be viable and even fun. Even your stock Fighter will have some fun. But more than that, if you have class-itise, you have a whole 6 member party to alleviate it. Your charname may not be 'The class', but does he/she have to be? You are controlling all of them, and there is a fair amount of variability to choose from.

Rhaegar

the_spyder said:

I absolutely feel your pain. I am just at the cusp of chapter 6 in BG1 with my "Usual" Wizard and I have this desire to go back and start again as a Half orc Fighter/Thief. It is very frustrating.

Way I figure it, although the game isn't "Balanced" it is balanced enough such that each class/race combination to be viable and even fun. Even your stock Fighter will have some fun. But more than that, if you have class-itise, you have a whole 6 member party to alleviate it. Your charname may not be 'The class', but does he/she have to be? You are controlling all of them, and there is a fair amount of variability to choose from.

That's true, which is why for the most part the characters on my list of ones I would play as a PC are ones that are not available as NPC's, like fighter/mage, sorcerer, and even fighter/thief to some extent (moreso in BG2)

Ignatius

@Rhaegar: I have one piece of advice that can cure your affliction. Try to only play the game on no-reloads. It should have 2 consequences:

1/ you will lose your characters a lot, hence still be able to re-start with a new idea albeit with a very valid reason other than "I'm bored with my PC and want to do all the easy mini-quests all over again"

2/ for the few that will make it long enough, you should feel attached to them in a way you have never felt before. Simply because they have survived a tough challenge. And you should be able to continue with them much longer than you do now in your current playthroughs.

Try it!

KidCarnival

Wilbur said:

Tinter said:

I pick my PC fairly easily, the problem is I like to preplan my party (and sometimes BG2 and TOB parties as well!) before I start playing, and making that decision can result in a lot of stalling.

Choosing satisfying party members can be one hell of a job. The fact that I can't play without Imoen makes it a little easier though.

I'm the same with Edwin and partly Xzar, hence I'm never even tempted to play an arcane caster. My cure is clearly Black Pits should that desire arise. I started it several (hundred) times to try out classes. The 3 I liked best made it to BG spinoffs, so to speak, and I now play whichever I feel like playing. Bonus - it takes ages to play through without getting boring, thanks to 3 different parties and stages of completition (different except for the wizards).

Oxford_Guy

KidCarnival said:

Wilbur said:

Tinter said:

I pick my PC fairly easily, the problem is I like to preplan my party (and sometimes BG2 and TOB parties as well!) before I start playing, and making that decision can result in a lot of stalling.

Choosing satisfying party members can be one hell of a job. The fact that I can't play without Imoen makes it a little easier though.

I'm the same with Edwin and partly Xzar, hence I'm never even tempted to play an arcane caster.

Could perhaps still play a Bard? Skalds and Blades are actually pretty decent

KidCarnival

One of my 3 is a jester, with the main function to be invisible, confuse everything around him and have the real casters do the damage, while the melees go straight for the big target that doesn't get confused. Level 5 now, and except for immune targets, pretty much everything gets confused right away. Should anything still stand after that, the jester becomes visible by casting sleep or something, but mostly, his spells are armor and invisibility. It's ok to have some spells, but stealth would work for that strategy just as well. Having them just frees the slots for Edwin and Xzar.

Oxford_Guy

@Kidcarnival - I'd like to play a bard in next run through, probably good aligned (current party is neutral evil elf fighter/mage...), am not sure whether to go Skald or Jester, though. I don't want to play a Blade, as want a Bard with a decent song (it's what makes a Bard for me) and the non-kit bard song is almost useless until level 15 (when it gets +1 luck, even then it's not hat great).

I'm road-testing a Skald at the moment, which is proving fairly awesome, you can even "song twist" a little and get some ranged attacks off or quick spells and resume singing before the song drops, though it's a bit of a pain to micromanage, the innate +1THAC0/damage is nice too *BUT* effectively no pickpockets skill, which would be nice to have (hello Drizzt's Scimitars!), so am considering a Jester too... Does the Jester's song instantly stop or can you get a quick ranged shot or spell off and resume singing before the end of the round to maintain it?

Armour is a wasted spell for a Bard, though, you can either CLUA in the elven chain (AC5) that is meant to drop (will likely be fixed in the next patch anyway) and/or use the Shield Amulet (AC4, AC2 vs, missiles, immune to magic missile), which is easy to obtain, relatively cheap and can be recharged. For a Bard it shouldn't be that expensive to recharge (unless your reputation really sucks), as can boost Cha to at least 21 with the Friends spell for the max shop discount. You can also improve your AC whilst singing, even against missiles, with the +1 Buckley's Buckler and still perhaps use darts or a sling. There's also a belt and boots that helps with AC vs. missiles.

BTW What weapon proficiencies did you give your Jester?

KidCarnival

Armor is just filling a low level slot, in case he ever becomes visible. Other than that, it's Sleep and on 2, for more or less roleplay-logic, Glitterdust ("Oh crap, they can see me?" - *throws stuff in eyes*). And yeah, I did console the elven chain, otherwise the poor guy would still wear only necklaces and rings in Black Pits Tier 3 (currently in Fire Giant battle, came as close as killing all but one elemental with only the conjurer and jester still standing). In Black Pits, I don't really need Friends as spell, he has 18 char and the rep doesn't change.

The song wears off like a normal song, but it is no problem at all to become visible for a bit, cast some spells, then go invisible again. Most enemies around you will be confused/attacking each other and not notice you. In Black Pits, the jester has sandthief ring, cloak of displacement and by now invisibility, area invisibility and improved invisibility and is usually the last one standing due to being invisible 80 % of the battle. When he runs out of invisibility options, he uses Glitterdust to blind what's left and casts from wands.

Proficiencies... two weapon style, long swords and something else... I don't even remember, I think bastard swords. But frankly, he so rarely gets to use weapons, it doesn't really matter.

Djimmy

Fighter/Mage has everything except some thieving skills like disarm traps... so fighter/mage if you are into power gaming now.

Oxford_Guy

KidCarnival said:

Armor is just filling a low level slot, in case he ever becomes visible. Other than that, it's Sleep and on 2, for more or less roleplay-logic, Glitterdust ("Oh crap, they can see me?" - *throws stuff in eyes*). And yeah, I did console the elven chain, otherwise the poor guy would still wear only necklaces and rings in Black Pits Tier 3 (currently in Fire Giant battle, came as close as killing all but one elemental with only the conjurer and jester still standing). In Black Pits, I don't really need Friends as spell, he has 18 char and the rep doesn't change.

The song wears off like a normal song, but it is no problem at all to become visible for a bit, cast some spells, then go invisible again. Most enemies around you will be confused/attacking each other and not notice you. In Black Pits, the jester has sandthief ring, cloak of displacement and by now invisibility, area invisibility and improved invisibility and is usually the last one standing due to being invisible 80 % of the battle. When he runs out of invisibility options, he uses Glitterdust to blind what's left and casts from wands.

I like it :-)

KidCarnival said:

Proficiencies... two weapon style, long swords and something else... I don't even remember, I think bastard swords. But frankly, he so rarely gets to use weapons, it doesn't really matter.

Why two weapon style, you can only put one point into it, so get -6 THAC0 on the off-hand and -2 on the main main hand? Single weapon style (long sword or scimitar/ninja-to/wakazashi, or even daggers for the dagger of venom), two-handed style (with halberd or staff), or no weapon style plus Buckley's Buckler would seem better, even if just for "emergency" situations. Any ranged weapons? Darts would make sense RP-wise.