Armor is just filling a low level slot, in case he ever becomes visible. Other than that, it's Sleep and on 2, for more or less roleplay-logic, Glitterdust ("Oh crap, they can see me?" - *throws stuff in eyes*). And yeah, I did console the elven chain, otherwise the poor guy would still wear only necklaces and rings in Black Pits Tier 3 (currently in Fire Giant battle, came as close as killing all but one elemental with only the conjurer and jester still standing). In Black Pits, I don't really need Friends as spell, he has 18 char and the rep doesn't change.
The song wears off like a normal song, but it is no problem at all to become visible for a bit, cast some spells, then go invisible again. Most enemies around you will be confused/attacking each other and not notice you. In Black Pits, the jester has sandthief ring, cloak of displacement and by now invisibility, area invisibility and improved invisibility and is usually the last one standing due to being invisible 80 % of the battle. When he runs out of invisibility options, he uses Glitterdust to blind what's left and casts from wands.
Proficiencies... two weapon style, long swords and something else... I don't even remember, I think bastard swords. But frankly, he so rarely gets to use weapons, it doesn't really matter.
BTW what alignment/familiar did you go for? Pity CG is not an option, Invisibility 10' Radius from the Fairy Dragon would've been ideal! Neutral Evil Dust Mephit also a good option - Glitterdust once a day, Ghost Dust twice a day...
That's true, which is why for the most part the characters on my list of ones I would play as a PC are ones that are not available as NPC's, like fighter/mage, sorcerer, and even fighter/thief to some extent (moreso in BG2)
that wasn't my point. I was merely saying that Charname doesn't have to be the end all and be all of your character experience. That you have a lot of companions that allow you to flavor out your game such that you have a variety of abilities and character types. So that regardless of what you choose as your character, it doesn't "Necessarily" have to fulfill all of your gaming needs.
When I play, I "Usually" play a Wizard. When you check the party stats, you see that my Charname ends up contributing ~8% of total damage and experience. He has thieves who pick locks and remove traps. he has fighters who tank for him. And he has clerics/druids that heal everyone up (except him). I am playing him as a role, not as a jack of all trades. But that is merely my style of play.
I absolutely feel your pain. I am just at the cusp of chapter 6 in BG1 with my "Usual" Wizard and I have this desire to go back and start again as a Half orc Fighter/Thief. It is very frustrating.
Way I figure it, although the game isn't "Balanced" it is balanced enough such that each class/race combination to be viable and even fun. Even your stock Fighter will have some fun. But more than that, if you have class-itise, you have a whole 6 member party to alleviate it. Your charname may not be 'The class', but does he/she have to be? You are controlling all of them, and there is a fair amount of variability to choose from.
That's true, which is why for the most part the characters on my list of ones I would play as a PC are ones that are not available as NPC's, like fighter/mage, sorcerer, and even fighter/thief to some extent (moreso in BG2)
Or Bards, which are available in-game, but all the existing ones are rubbish stats-wise and not one of the kits, which are all better than the default Bard
Or Bards, which are available in-game, but all the existing ones are rubbish stats-wise and not one of the kits, which are all better than the default Bard
Ii would be nice if they added a new bard as DLC (someone that didn't suck). A blade would be nice IMO. I'd really like to play with a Bard but maybe not as MC.
Or Bards, which are available in-game, but all the existing ones are rubbish stats-wise and not one of the kits, which are all better than the default Bard
Ii would be nice if they added a new bard as DLC (someone that didn't suck). A blade would be nice IMO. I'd really like to play with a Bard but maybe not as MC.
I'd rather have a Skald or a Jester NPC, better than a hard for helping out the party, I see a Blade more as a soloing character...
@Oxford_Guy: Jester is chaotic neutral. And damn, I completely forgot about familiars. Oops. There you see, I never play mages... The weapon proficiencies are selected strictly after "looks cool" because in Black Pits, there were maybe 2 - 3 fights in which he used them at all. (Why is there no proficiency for "wands and scrolls in quick slot"?) In BG, he actually has daggers (going for Venom & Heart of Golem combo) and darts (RP-wise, darts of stunning make sense for him), but I love dual weapons and didn't intend to make it an easy playthrough in general, so "maximum efficiency" has to take a backseat to "looks cool".
About the NPC bards... I'm ok with Garrick having no kit. He's very young and would likely not be specialized in anything at this point in life. Eldoth, on the other hand, is older and more importantly, he is evil. I'm so very tempted to make him a jester. It fits his personality of a manipulative, arrogant jerk to mock enemies, and his poison arrow ability screams "part assassin", which is exactly how I see my own jester.
That's true, which is why for the most part the characters on my list of ones I would play as a PC are ones that are not available as NPC's, like fighter/mage, sorcerer, and even fighter/thief to some extent (moreso in BG2)
that wasn't my point. I was merely saying that Charname doesn't have to be the end all and be all of your character experience. That you have a lot of companions that allow you to flavor out your game such that you have a variety of abilities and character types. So that regardless of what you choose as your character, it doesn't "Necessarily" have to fulfill all of your gaming needs.
Didn't I just completely agree with you?
I love the npcs and for the most part I am satisfied with them and don't feel the need to play a main char when the npcs cover it.
It's the non and under represented classes that I play the most because there aren't npcs to let me try the class out
Definitely feel your pain. The only class I was able to beat ToB with was a paladin. I usually abort runs with an idea that a new character concept will flesh out a party to perfection (in video games and art I very much tend to be a perfectionist).
I tend to run out of steam in the under dark in bg 2. I've actually played thru ToB only once because of this habit! I have a fighter dualled to cleric sitting in the under dark, presumably trying to stay alive with the half elf fighter Mage I left there as well.
Right now I'm having a rough time in bg ee deciding what to finish with. Ive started a ranger cleric but he makes me miss swords so much. I might just play a paladin again, as I just love the idea of a holy warrior Demi god trying to resist the pull of an evil heritage. Plus wielding one of (if not the) most powerful swords in the Realms is cool too
I think rather attached to the hip with carsomyr. The ToB fights seem scary without it lol
Edit: just remembered I beat it with a sorcerer as well
When I was younger I was a huge fighter/thief fan. I would have never played a Paladin do to the lawful good alignment. Now that I'm a lot older I like the idea of a Paladin more. in BGEE it's the only class I've been able to stick with. The Cavalier seems to really appeal to me in particular. Being able to detect evil, be immune to fear and more failure, and be the leader of the group seems to fit my idea of the protagonist about perfectly at this point. I fooled around with a Ranger/Cleric and Fighter/Druid a little, but I don't like blunt weapons either and I don't like scimitars as much as other weapons available. I especially like two handed swords regardless of Carsomyr. I also like long swords a lot.
@Rhaegar. Maybe you did. I got confused with all of the people posting how to make the "Perfect" Charname. And there really isn't any problem with doing that. or with Soloing the game. It just isn't for me.
My personal way of looking at it is that Charname is part of a group. If I have a hankering for playing a wizard and a thief and a cleric, I create my Charname and then pick my party to include the other two classes. That way I get to play all three.
@Rhaegar. Maybe you did. I got confused with all of the people posting how to make the "Perfect" Charname. And there really isn't any problem with doing that. or with Soloing the game. It just isn't for me.
My personal way of looking at it is that Charname is part of a group. If I have a hankering for playing a wizard and a thief and a cleric, I create my Charname and then pick my party to include the other two classes. That way I get to play all three.
Sure, the problem arises though when 2-3 of the classes you want to play are completely not represented by NPC's (fighter/mage, sorcerer, evil thief in BG2, etc)
They seem to be trying to fix this somewhat in the EE by adding a monk, wild mage and blackguard... lets just hope Bg2 ee has a few more good npcs as well.
Definitely feel your pain. The only class I was able to beat ToB with was a paladin. I usually abort runs with an idea that a new character concept will flesh out a party to perfection (in video games and art I very much tend to be a perfectionist).
I tend to run out of steam in the under dark in bg 2. I've actually played thru ToB only once because of this habit! I have a fighter dualled to cleric sitting in the under dark, presumably trying to stay alive with the half elf fighter Mage I left there as well.
Right now I'm having a rough time in bg ee deciding what to finish with. Ive started a ranger cleric but he makes me miss swords so much. I might just play a paladin again, as I just love the idea of a holy warrior Demi god trying to resist the pull of an evil heritage. Plus wielding one of (if not the) most powerful swords in the Realms is cool too
I think rather attached to the hip with carsomyr. The ToB fights seem scary without it lol
Edit: just remembered I beat it with a sorcerer as well
When I was younger I was a huge fighter/thief fan. I would have never played a Paladin do to the lawful good alignment. Now that I'm a lot older I like the idea of a Paladin more. in BGEE it's the only class I've been able to stick with. The Cavalier seems to really appeal to me in particular. Being able to detect evil, be immune to fear and more failure, and be the leader of the group seems to fit my idea of the protagonist about perfectly at this point. I fooled around with a Ranger/Cleric and Fighter/Druid a little, but I don't like blunt weapons either and I don't like scimitars as much as other weapons available. I especially like two handed swords regardless of Carsomyr. I also like long swords a lot.
Cavalier seems cool to me to from a role playing standpoint. Your character seeks to slay dragons and demons stemming from what he thinks will benefit others, but deep down its his bhaal heritage craving killing powerful creatures.
Sure, the problem arises though when 2-3 of the classes you want to play are completely not represented by NPC's (fighter/mage, sorcerer, evil thief in BG2, etc)
They seem to be trying to fix this somewhat in the EE by adding a monk, wild mage and blackguard... lets just hope Bg2 ee has a few more good npcs as well.
The other solution is to play Icewind Dale. That solves the entire problem. You have an entire party comprised of the classes and alignments that you want.
Sure, the problem arises though when 2-3 of the classes you want to play are completely not represented by NPC's (fighter/mage, sorcerer, evil thief in BG2, etc)
They seem to be trying to fix this somewhat in the EE by adding a monk, wild mage and blackguard... lets just hope Bg2 ee has a few more good npcs as well.
The other solution is to play Icewind Dale. That solves the entire problem. You have an entire party comprised of the classes and alignments that you want.
But then none of them ever talk to you or have any kind of story behind them :P
Sure, the problem arises though when 2-3 of the classes you want to play are completely not represented by NPC's (fighter/mage, sorcerer, evil thief in BG2, etc)
They seem to be trying to fix this somewhat in the EE by adding a monk, wild mage and blackguard... lets just hope Bg2 ee has a few more good npcs as well.
The other solution is to play Icewind Dale. That solves the entire problem. You have an entire party comprised of the classes and alignments that you want.
No, that's far worse, you have indecision about 6 characters then!
Glad to know im not the only one, I do always settle on 2 choices though, Human, Chaotic good, been playing bg:ee for weeks and still have yet to settle on any class,
No, that's far worse, you have indecision about 6 characters then!
LOL. It is both worse and better. For me, it isn't so bad because I have a stock party in my head that I always play. There are maybe 10 of them, each with names, classes, alignments and personalities. I fancy myself a teeny bit like Stephen King in that respect (not that I can write worth a darned, but just that I have these people in my head). So then I just pick which ones go on the adventure.
But sometimes that can be a problem as well. Because I have to choose the right balance of characters.
While elves get a thac0 bonus to bows and swords, both slashing and piercing type weapons suffer hefty penalties against most armor types. I'd go with a gnome for a fighter/mage and focus on staves. It's great to have the mage specialist bonus..
While elves get a thac0 bonus to bows and swords, both slashing and piercing type weapons suffer hefty penalties against most armor types. I'd go with a gnome for a fighter/mage and focus on staves. It's great to have the mage specialist bonus..
That's true, though elves can also have 19 Dex and have 90% resistance to charm/sleep, for what it's worth. Also, whilst the extra spells are nice, an Illusionist can't cast the nice neromancy spells like Skulltrap, Finger of Death and Horrid Wilting, nor one of the armour buffs (Spirit Armour?). Also in BG2, apart from the new NPCs, Gnomes can only romance Aerie. Also not everyone likes playing shorties...
Am not saying Gnome Fighter/Illusionists are bad (they're not), but they do have some limitations. They also get the the nice Con-based bonuses vs. Spells and Wands, though, which is another point in their favour, and can have also 18 starting Con (Elves can only have 17), which gives them their Max -5 save bonus.
Armor is just filling a low level slot, in case he ever becomes visible. Other than that, it's Sleep and on 2, for more or less roleplay-logic, Glitterdust ("Oh crap, they can see me?" - *throws stuff in eyes*). And yeah, I did console the elven chain, otherwise the poor guy would still wear only necklaces and rings in Black Pits Tier 3 (currently in Fire Giant battle, came as close as killing all but one elemental with only the conjurer and jester still standing). In Black Pits, I don't really need Friends as spell, he has 18 char and the rep doesn't change.
I just realised, Glitterdust (assuming it works) gives -4 to saves, so anything not confused initially, is much more likely to be after that, LOL!
It's beautiful, isn't it? Also really helps against stuff with gaze attacks. Blinded basilisks just stand around. Now I'm really itching to get BG2EE and try how well the jester does against beholders. "What, all you got is eyes? lulz" - *blind*
It's beautiful, isn't it? Also really helps against stuff with gaze attacks. Blinded basilisks just stand around. Now I'm really itching to get BG2EE and try how well the jester does against beholders. "What, all you got is eyes? lulz" - *blind*
What I can't understand, though, is where you can get so much ability to be invisible from, you don't get *that* many level 2 spell slots, potions are rare, and the invisibility ring costs about 25k gold at Ulgoth's Beard...
I absolutely feel your pain. I am just at the cusp of chapter 6 in BG1 with my "Usual" Wizard and I have this desire to go back and start again as a Half orc Fighter/Thief. It is very frustrating.
Way I figure it, although the game isn't "Balanced" it is balanced enough such that each class/race combination to be viable and even fun. Even your stock Fighter will have some fun. But more than that, if you have class-itise, you have a whole 6 member party to alleviate it. Your charname may not be 'The class', but does he/she have to be? You are controlling all of them, and there is a fair amount of variability to choose from.
That's true, which is why for the most part the characters on my list of ones I would play as a PC are ones that are not available as NPC's, like fighter/mage, sorcerer, and even fighter/thief to some extent (moreso in BG2)
Or Bards, which are available in-game, but all the existing ones are rubbish stats-wise and not one of the kits, which are all better than the default Bard
Before I started playing as my NE Skald I never once thought of playing a Bard. I always kinda dismissed them as not very good. But it's by far been my favourite play through. Primarily, I think this is because normally I end up focusing on the PC so much more than anyone else, but on this playthrough I've almost been forced to use my party a lot more, which has really contributed to the enjoyment. Plus I love RPing her, as she sits on someone's dresser while her party ransacks their house, strumming her lute with a dust mephit cackling on her shoulder.
@Oxford_Guy: The item list was from Black Pits, so I got it all from the merchants. In BG, I have Edwin with some backup invisibility and other than that scrolls from High Hedge and Feldpost Inn. The ring isn't impossible either, if you have the patience for ankeg farming. I hunt a while, then have Dorn carry the maximum shells to Beregost and can stock up on scrolls and wands easily. I remember back in BG1, I often went winter wolf hunting, but I rarely find more than 10 during the first 3 chapters, so yeah, ankegs.
@Oxford_Guy: The item list was from Black Pits, so I got it all from the merchants. In BG, I have Edwin with some backup invisibility and other than that scrolls from High Hedge and Feldpost Inn.
Okay, thanks, I guess in this situation Edwin is more useful than Xzar, as Xzar can't cast Illusion magic, I think (Necromancer)
The ring isn't impossible either, if you have the patience for ankeg farming.
Is that the one you can buy here (for about 25,000 gold, depending on reputation, I think, maybe less with a Bard with Friends cast, though I'd play an evil Jester, partly for thee Dust Mephit familiar) so my reputation may not be that great)?:
I hunt a while, then have Dorn carry the maximum shells to Beregost and can stock up on scrolls and wands easily. I remember back in BG1, I often went winter wolf hunting, but I rarely find more than 10 during the first 3 chapters, so yeah, ankegs.
That's the only one I know of in BG. Black Pits has several Sandthief rings in T3. You can further boost your charisma with Algernon's cloak, too. I think you said you go with minimum charisma, so its 15 + cloak (17) + Friends = 23. I don't know what price you get as evil though, my jester is chaotic neutral.
I use Edwin because he can easily spare a level 2 spell at first. Reputation-wise, that's no problem without any good NPCs. You can safely get a rep of 17, buy the ring, then kill a commoner in one of the houses in UB and drop back to 11. Evil jesters do such things for the lulz. Everyone is happy and you get a very decent price, still staying far away from turning the guards hostile or losing neutral party members. (Actually, I think you don't even lose good NPCs, but I haven't tested that. I'm taking Rasaad to this trip, then we'll see. He's pissing me off with his attempts to sell me a Watchtower anyway.)
That's the only one I know of in BG. Black Pits has several Sandthief rings in T3. You can further boost your charisma with Algernon's cloak, too. I think you said you go with minimum charisma, so its 15 + cloak (17) + Friends = 23.
You get the maximum store discount (75%) when Charisma reaches 21, which you can do with Friends + 15 Charisma, though obviously it's not always convenient to rest first to cast this.
There are 2 solutions. 1) Use an RNG to roll stats, race, and alignment, and pick the class that matches the best. Then if you want you can redistribute points, or just roll with whatever you rolled on the RNG. (I use 1-6 3 times to make 18 stats rarer, and actually use the char as is for more of a challenge). You will find there are classes that actually fit whatever you get pretty well.
2) Power gamer solution, pick the class that is the most powerful. A lot of the classes are just inferior to others, which makes it easy to pick the best classes. Examples: Monk (Best physical damage and AC at max levels), Kensai (Highest attack at max levels, more dam than Archer), Blackguard (Best overall defense, enemy attack debuff, absorb, full plate etc), Fighter/Thief/Mage (Can actually hit with backstabs/touchspells/magicweapons, magic armor), Ranger/Cleric (both priest spell sets, can actually hit)
I made a mp group of all of these plus a skald for the buff song. There are a few other classes that are similar but it really comes down to maxing a high level goal.
Comments
When I play, I "Usually" play a Wizard. When you check the party stats, you see that my Charname ends up contributing ~8% of total damage and experience. He has thieves who pick locks and remove traps. he has fighters who tank for him. And he has clerics/druids that heal everyone up (except him). I am playing him as a role, not as a jack of all trades. But that is merely my style of play.
About the NPC bards... I'm ok with Garrick having no kit. He's very young and would likely not be specialized in anything at this point in life. Eldoth, on the other hand, is older and more importantly, he is evil. I'm so very tempted to make him a jester. It fits his personality of a manipulative, arrogant jerk to mock enemies, and his poison arrow ability screams "part assassin", which is exactly how I see my own jester.
I love the npcs and for the most part I am satisfied with them and don't feel the need to play a main char when the npcs cover it.
It's the non and under represented classes that I play the most because there aren't npcs to let me try the class out
My personal way of looking at it is that Charname is part of a group. If I have a hankering for playing a wizard and a thief and a cleric, I create my Charname and then pick my party to include the other two classes. That way I get to play all three.
They seem to be trying to fix this somewhat in the EE by adding a monk, wild mage and blackguard... lets just hope Bg2 ee has a few more good npcs as well.
Cavalier seems cool to me to from a role playing standpoint. Your character seeks to slay dragons and demons stemming from what he thinks will benefit others, but deep down its his bhaal heritage craving killing powerful creatures.
But sometimes that can be a problem as well. Because I have to choose the right balance of characters.
Am not saying Gnome Fighter/Illusionists are bad (they're not), but they do have some limitations. They also get the the nice Con-based bonuses vs. Spells and Wands, though, which is another point in their favour, and can have also 18 starting Con (Elves can only have 17), which gives them their Max -5 save bonus.
The ring isn't impossible either, if you have the patience for ankeg farming. I hunt a while, then have Dorn carry the maximum shells to Beregost and can stock up on scrolls and wands easily. I remember back in BG1, I often went winter wolf hunting, but I rarely find more than 10 during the first 3 chapters, so yeah, ankegs.
Ulgoth's Beard
:-)
I use Edwin because he can easily spare a level 2 spell at first. Reputation-wise, that's no problem without any good NPCs. You can safely get a rep of 17, buy the ring, then kill a commoner in one of the houses in UB and drop back to 11. Evil jesters do such things for the lulz. Everyone is happy and you get a very decent price, still staying far away from turning the guards hostile or losing neutral party members. (Actually, I think you don't even lose good NPCs, but I haven't tested that. I'm taking Rasaad to this trip, then we'll see. He's pissing me off with his attempts to sell me a Watchtower anyway.)
I like the evil Bhaal Powers you get in the dream sequences, though mix it up a bit sometimes with the good ones
2) Power gamer solution, pick the class that is the most powerful. A lot of the classes are just inferior to others, which makes it easy to pick the best classes. Examples: Monk (Best physical damage and AC at max levels), Kensai (Highest attack at max levels, more dam than Archer), Blackguard (Best overall defense, enemy attack debuff, absorb, full plate etc), Fighter/Thief/Mage (Can actually hit with backstabs/touchspells/magicweapons, magic armor), Ranger/Cleric (both priest spell sets, can actually hit)
I made a mp group of all of these plus a skald for the buff song. There are a few other classes that are similar but it really comes down to maxing a high level goal.