Druid question

moopy

Sorry if I'm restating a well known fact, but I've never really used a druid or a druid multi character ever and I've been trying out things I use to not use when I played a decade ago.

What are the point of druids? With the exception of iron skins their spells seem to suck when compared to what a cleric gets.

cyberarmy

Their spell arsenal is a bit more ofensive than clerics and they have cool shapeshifts that boost your physical stats even humanoid form has luckster stats. They can also summon elemental hordes.
Also in my humble opinion they can use better weapons than clerics.

mjs

insect plague/swarm is the single best spell to stop spell casters. it's good just to keep your opponents suffering, even if they're not trying to cast spells. some extra resistances at higher levels and in bg:ee some of the kit abilities are OP so make excellent solo runs or just good PCs.

moopy

I think I was just shocked at a lot of the level 1-3 divine spells that I never realized was cleric only.

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Justarius

Druid kits alter the base class much more so than the cleric ones, allows you to go melee, offensive caster or summoner.

DJKajuru

I've never played a druid for having jaheira in my group, but I do like them, specially the kits. I would also suggest dualing fighter to druid .

Kaltzor

The main problem I think with Druids in BG is that they don't really get much offensive spells that work indoors early on...

Djimmy

As @mjs says "insect plague/swarm is the single best spell to stop spell casters.". This spell is super powerful... and annoying if cast upon you. Shapeshifter kit when transformed to Warewolf has a very nice stats boost. The elemental princes are mighty too.

mjs

@djkaru i would respectfully disagree, unlike a cleric (who have full plate and tanking buffs) druids need to be away from the frontline. The only reason you'd dual/multi a druid is to make them a front liner, but the only time you'd front line a druid is when they're in shapeshifter mode , which makes the fighter aspect of their class redundant.

plus you miss out on totemic druid ability (summon an animal that's immune to normal and +1 weapons) or even better the avenger druid (limited extra mage spells, which make them more feasible in underground battles and extra shifts INCLUDING a freakin' sword spider). now if they ever correct spider shift to not be caught in web you would be EPIC in BG:EE

mjs

but all things said, by the end of SoA and ToB, in the very tough battles...i'd rather take a cleric (either lathander or talos). more spells. more spell slots. better buffs. better abilities (boon of lathander and storm shield). that funky symbol thing. any race. turn undead.

clerics just scale waaaay better

DJKajuru

@mjs, a fighter dualed to druid would be like a normal druid, one that has more hps and may be able dual wield scimitars, inflict more damage with a staff , or kick ass with a sling.

Ignatius

mjs said:

@djkaru i would respectfully disagree, unlike a cleric (who have full plate and tanking buffs) druids need to be away from the frontline. The only reason you'd dual/multi a druid is to make them a front liner, but the only time you'd front line a druid is when they're in shapeshifter mode , which makes the fighter aspect of their class redundant.

There is a reason a Fighter/Druid can be a formidable front-liner and that reason is called Iron Skins.

Although druids do miss out several of the best low-level spells of the cleric (starting with the formidable Sanctuary), they do have a few higher-level druidic only spells that are truly awesome.

bigdogchris

Druids level up a bit faster than Clerics do and have some decent combat spells. In BG2, Druids get bonuses to the amount of spells they get per level (compared to Cleric) since they level cap is so low for them (it's a PnP thing).

I've never given Fighter/Druids and honest chance but they probably are not that bad.

mjs

@djkajuru a dulled fighter/druid would complement a party with less melee power, so you could squeeze more arcane and divine casters in. of course it depends when you dual, too early and the only real benefits are extra armours and weapon specialisation (as better thac0 comes at higher levels) and i just think you lose a lot from some of the kits

Erg

I tried a Berserker/Druid some time ago (played all BG1 as Berserker and dualled at level 13 in BG2) dual wielding clubs. He was awesome, the second best build I ever had (the first being the notoriously overpowered Kensai/Mage)

moopy

Thanks for the feedback.

I was trying a Fighter / Druid and wanted to play it more like a Fighter / Cleric which I was more use to. It just looks like Clerics get a lot of of Cleric only spells that I had thought both got and Druids only get a few Druid only spells in comparison.

Though from looking at the divine spell list I think Clerics have a monopoly on cool Cleric only spells at lower level (spell levels 1-3 is what I'm at) where as at higher levels Druids get some better Druid only spells.

I guess I could make a Ranger / Cleric and have my cake and eat it too.

Ignatius

moopy said:

I guess I could make a Ranger / Cleric and have my cake and eat it too.

Yep, that's why this multiclass is so uniquely strong and versatile.

elminster

They really need to give druids remove fear back, as was the case in BG1.

ajwz

Summon nymph, insect plague, and Iron skins are all pretty good.

Erg

elminster said:

They really need to give druids remove fear back, as was the case in BG1.

Possible solutions for the lack of "Remove Fear" are

1) having someone else in the party take care of that (cleric, mage, etc.)
2) playing a solo Berserker\Druid as enraging makes you immune to fear (amongst other things)

Ignatius

Erg said:

Possible solutions for the lack of "Remove Fear" are

1) having someone else in the party take care of that (cleric, mage, etc.)
2) playing a solo Berserker\Druid as enraging makes you immune to fear (amongst other things)

or using a charge from the Greenstone amulet which will give you much more than just fear immunity

UnknownQuantity

Clerics always seem a bit overpowered, but that's what makes it a fun class. I think if there was no multi or dual classing in the game then the classes would be a little more balanced in usefulness. Right now a fighter/cleric is a powerhouse with defensive buffs, offensive buffs, attacks per round, and turn undead. Druids don't get many useful buffs. They mostly cast offensive spells, but the offensive spells aren't that great outside of the different insect swarms. You give up a lot with a druid or fighter/druid just to get a few nice spells. Generally a Cleric is a better overall character. Of course you could be a Ranger/Cleric and get all the druid spells, cleric spells, turn undead, and fighter attacks per round. It just shows how multi/dual classing is broken. Of course that's part of what makes Baldur's Gate a fun game IMO.

elminster

Erg said:

elminster said:

They really need to give druids remove fear back, as was the case in BG1.

Possible solutions for the lack of "Remove Fear" are

1) having someone else in the party take care of that (cleric, mage, etc.)
2) playing a solo Berserker\Druid as enraging makes you immune to fear (amongst other things)

Yea I know the solutions to lacking the spell.

valky

ajwz said:

Summon nymph, insect plague, and Iron skins are all pretty good.

The nymph is partially useful (PnP nymph is a kick-ass bitch!), but I do agree with the latter...

Else I have to agree to most of the other postings, Druids progression lacks if not modded and Clerics - while slow at the beginning - catch up pretty fast in BG2 and ToB anyway. The very only thing I currently miss in my BG2 game (arrr! I just kicked Jaheira) is Insect swarm and Insect Plaque and some of the summons (playing with spell-revisions...). Insect Plaque though, can cast my npc-mod ranger..so it's covered...but the swarm is pretty much kick-ass (in SCSII).

Cleric or specially in my case my BGEE-fighter(9) dualed to cleric is a b*tch. Am pretty good in melee and can cast very annoying stuff against my enemies...

Several of the useful druid spells are more or less annoying, cause they should affect your party as well.

[Speaking of OP clerics: Kaelyn the Dove ^^]

Corvino

In the long term druids do best as single class, or when dual-classed to due to the incredible gaps between levels in BG2. Multiclass XP splitting makes this gap twice as hard to get across. While Jaheira is generally a solid character in BG2 she goes about 1/4 of the game between each druid level.

However, single class druids can also get to level 10 in BG1, as opposed to 8 for clerics. This gives them access to level 5 spells including the utterly great iron skins and insect plague. Even a fighter dualled at level 7 can get to druid 9, and hence get 1 level 5 spell (+wisdom bonus if appliccable). The only real drawback of being a dual class fighter/druid is the need for 15 strength & 17 wisdom *and* charisma, so a beast of a roll is required.

Druids do give up a lot of the all-round goodness of the cleric for very specific good spells. They don't really shine at all in BG1 until level 9+.

Tresset

Lets not forget Nature's Beauty. That spell is awesome! Even if you fail the save to resist an instakill you will always get blinded PERMANENTLY! Not to mention that it hits a large AoE. Also, for some reason, BG2 druids get tons of level 7 spell slots to use.

moopy

I totally get druids appeal once they start getting 5th level + spells.

I just find their spell selection to be underwhelming on a F/D as compared to a F/C with a 161,000 xp cap.

ZanathKariashi

They never really shine. They just stop sucking outright and become average. Of course Avengers change things up, by giving them some extra and much needed umph, but druids in general just get the shaft. They can't even raise the dead in BG...not that most people would gamble on Reincarnation unless they didn't have a choice (Reincarnation is effectively free (just requires a spell slot), and suffers none of the penalties any of the raise dead or resurrection spells do, but the raise window is 1 week max, instead of 1 day per level like Raise Dead, or 10 years/level like ressurection...oh...and the whole turning you into a different creature..but hey...you might hit the reincarnate Jackpot and become something awesome))

And since the spell never drops your level or Con, nor requires rez/polymorph save checks, if your druid friend has the slots available..well..just keep "spinning the wheel" till you get what you want if you get an effectively unplayable form.