When to dual ranger to cleric
certus
Member Posts: 52
Hi guys, hope this hasn't been asked before. What level should I dual class my ranger to cleric? I am not to fussed about not 'finishing' the dual class in Bgee as she can be a meat shield if nothing else. More interested in bg2 end game. Is it worth holding out for the extra 1/2 apr.
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You also don't lose a whole lot, since that 1 point of thac0 for level 2 puts you 1 thac0 less then a lvl 8 fighter would have, once your cleric is maxed out at 8, and when the cleric hits lvl 9 in the sequel, they'd have the same thac0 as a lvl 8 fighter. Not to mention, past lvl 10, clerics begin to level rapidly, only a little behind rogues. At the end of thac0 progression, you'd have a 4 vs the 0 a warrior type has, and an extra 1/2 attack from specialization, and the ability to wear any non-weapon equipment a fighter or cleric could.
If you want to dual in bg2, 9 maxes warrior hd, and 13 finishes off bonus attacks. Dualing at 13 is a PITA though. As the above said, 7 is a nice sweet spot, nabbing you the first 1/2 attack. Honestly, I'd probably hit 7 then dual, thought you'll only hit cleric 7 in bgee, which means no funky spellcasting in BG1.
If you don't care about the extra 1/2 attack, just dual at 2, once again like @ZanathKariashi said.
Since your target is bg2 end game, dualing at 13 is doable, if you don't mind the giant PITA most of BG2 proper will be. Dualing at 13 mean you'll surpass at 2.85 million total xp, just under the cap for bg2.
In BGEE, you can safely dual at 6th level without losing any cleric level (Ranger 6/Cleric 8).
In BP, you can safely dual at 8th level without losing any cleric level (Ranger 8/Cleric 10)
In TOB, Ranger 18/Cleric 30 without losing spells per day, get all quest level spells, max TACH0 (3 vs. 6)
For max dispel magic power, Ranger 11/Cleric 39 (dispel success 95% against level 30 caster)
For max attacks per round, Ranger 13/Cleric 37 (85% dispel chance against level 30 caster)
For BG2 endgame (2,950k experience cap)
Ranger 11/Cleric 17 (TACH0 10)
Ranger 13/Cleric 14 (TACH0 8, base attack 2 per round)
Ranger 8/Cleric 20 (for max spell power, but you lose 2 level-5, 2 level-6 and 1 level-7 spells per day, TACH0 8)
Ranger 9/Cleric 19 (for max HP bonus, TACH0 8)
Since the max levels for Rangers in BGEE/BP are 8 and 10 respectively, the best course of action would be to dual at either 8th/9th level or get her all the way to 10th level. 8th level kinda makes sense since you can unlock Ranger levels in BP but you do lose 2-9 extra HP, -1 TACH0 bonus (which disappears at cleric 13th level), 1 extra proficiency slot (which you get back at cleric level 20). Your choice!
Since most copies of BG2 come with TOB, and once you install TOB the level cap increases to 8,000K in BG2 as well, you might as well dual at 11th or 13th level unless you dual at 18th level to squeeze 3 more TACH0 bonus, +1~+3 HP, one ranger high level ability for your character (provided you're ok with 50% dispel magic success chance against level 30 caster) compared to Ranger 11/Cleric 39 or Ranger 13/Cleric 37. Personally, I would recommend dualling at 13th level for extra 1/2 attack and one more proficiency point.
No, on several key points. THAC0 does not work that way.
THAC0, like Save Progression, uses the best available figure possible, it does not stack. This is one of the ways in which Multiclassing is absolutely superior to Dual Classing.
As such, a Ranger 2/Cleric 3 shall have a THAC0 of 19, and then a THAC0 of 18 at Cleric 4, before continuing to advance along standard cleric THAC0 progression. Advancing to level 9 cleric will not change this, as Clerics next progress in THAC0 at level 10.
THAC0 also caps. For Clerics, it caps at 6 THAC0, Thieves at 10, Mages at 13, and Warriors at 0.
This means that a Ranger 2/Cleric 8 shall have the same THAC0 as a pure Cleric at level 8 or 9.
A Ranger 7/Cleric 7 multiclass shall have better HP, still gets level 4 spells in BG1, and gets a THAC0 of 14. In BG2, both the Multiclass and the dual class shall gain access to level 7 spells. Come ToB, the Multiclass shall receive 20 HLAs with better pool access (compared to only 18 for the Dual Class as it can never reach level 40 cleric) and shall gain its first HLA earlier than the dual class to boot. It will also have a THAC0 of 0, compared to 6.
Incidentally, this means that the best level in Baldur's Gate to dual is level 7, the best to dual in Baldur's Gate II is level 13, and even that is costing you three more HLAs from your maximum.
As it stands however, the best overall level to "dual" is at level 1, as a Half-Elf Multiclass. The comparatively tiny numbers of level 6 & 7 spells you miss out on are largely irrelevant in the face of 24+ Wisdom bonuses.
but... multiclass is still superior, by far - fighter HLAs, pretty solid spell progression (even more so if you import from BG1 with 21 WIS), and, as the biggest deciding factor: no goddamn downtime. I mean, yeah, ranger 13 -> cleric is nice and all, but playing a big part of SoA as something akin to a paperweight? how about NO.
With experience cap of 8,000K (TOB) the max level of Ranger/Cleric multi class is 21/25. 9 Ranger HLAs, 11 Cleric HLAs (but Cleric can only choose up to 9 so it is more than sufficient).
Dual classing
The good:
maximized base HP
maximized Cleric level for dispel magic success
Can use kits
Faster Cleric progression
The bad:
Limited or no HLA choice for Ranger
Lower TACH0 and limited proficiency control than multi class
Multi classing
The good:
20 HLAs!
Doesn't have to wait until Ranger level gets unlocked for attack bonuses and weapon specialization
Max TACH0.
The bad:
lower dispel magic success
lower base HP (according to my experiment, you do lose around 30 HP).
Slower Cleric progression
No kits.
Spell power caps at level 20 (save symbol spells that cap at 21) and max spells per day caps at level 22 so other than dispel magic success rate multi class cleric doesn't lose much (if at all) compared to dual class cleric.
But Turn Undead thing is interesting.... I've used the ability a few times and all it seemed to do was scaring vampires away... Never saw undeads utterly destroyed myself... but it might be useful... sounds like cleric can use similar tricks to bard (invisible singing bard)...
sadly, it only goes up to lvl 14, afaik with a lvl 21 cleric, you can make liches go boom. nice.
though turn undead is not nearly as epic as it was in IWD, where in nearly half the areas you could just turn it on, then watch the... khmm... "fireworks"
I would multi. You get to 7 Ranger / 7 Cleric. Only losing out on one level of the possible maximum of a single class (Ranger 8 or Cleric 8).
You will get the rangers base 14 thac0 (2 better than a single class Cleric level 8) and 1.5 attacks per round, and Cleric spells all the way up to 4th level just like a pure class Cleric.
You get 2 points in two weapon fighting for free, I'd put one point in mace, one in war hammer, and one in sling, and the 4th for a second point in one of those 3 weapons. At level 3 and level 6 ranger I'd put the second point in the remaining 2 weapons.
I'd end up main handing the Stupidfier(Mace top floor of an inn in Beregost) and the Ashadrial(sp) (War Hammer from evil priest south west of Beregost). I only used the sling in the early levels so you might consider putting 2 points to start there and flushing out the melee weapons as you level up.
Plus with a multi you get to enjoy being both classes at the same time, and progressing in both classes at the same time through the entire game.
For BP, Ranger 8/Cleric 10.
however, if you're just interested in BGEE and melee buffing, 'zerker 3/4 -> cleric might be an even cooler option.
a 6 ranger / 8 cleric is going to have 1/2 APR less, 1 less thac0 and gain 1 3rd and 1 4th level spell. Those 2 extra spells aren't really important with the ring you get from Mulhey and wisdom bonuses, so you cost yourself 1/2 apr and 1 less thac0 AND (I feel this is the biggest cost) have to get almost to the xp cap to enjoy being both classes. Where as with multi 7/7 you get the APR, the thac0, and get to be both classes the entire game.
In order for me to want to dual I have to feel like the juice is worth the squeeze to have to work to get both my classes at the same time, and you don't really gain anything from dualing Ranger to Cleric.
Dual class is more for people to squeeze that extra cleric levels for dispel (and turn undead). But I definitely agree that single cleric gets pretty much nothing after level 30, and multi (2-class), around 23.
And dualing gets kits...
Archer can put 2 points in sling and ranged hit and damage bonus every 3 levels, and if one decides to dual at level 18 for Ranger18/Cleric30 sling attacks are made at +6 THAC0 +6 damage... For example at 17th level Archer with 18 dex gets base thac0 -4 and can do 15-18 damage with non-magical sling and bullet... And mix with sling of seeking that adds strength damage to sling... It's basically Kensai that shoots bullets... Only one point in melee weapons sucks but then Archer can still put 3 points in two-weapon style... Or grab a large shield....
Beastmaster gets extra HP and extra summon monsters... but only using club, quarterstaff and sling really sucks... not to mention limited choice of armor... But there are some really good leather armors in BG2/TOB... Summon familiar for extra HP.... Club of detonation +5 is good but can't use CF, FOA or disruption +2.... Darn... Is extra 25-35 HP worth it... I don't know...
Stalker adds some funky abilities... like backstabbing (but can only use club and quatertstaff)... x4 backstab with plain quarterstaff can get you up to 84 damages with really good strength and crit (two handed weapon style adds crit range).... Or equip CF off-hand and whack them with club for backstab... Maybe it's just me finding "backstabbing high level Cleric" such a funny idea... And can cast improved invisibility for extra AC and haste...
And dualing generally gets around extra 15 HP.
I agree that multi is better for powergaming, the only disadvantages being -10~-15 HP and less dispel power, but dual is more fun and adds more flavour if you decide to add kits, IMHO... No GWW/Hardness is real bummer, though...
As it stands now Archers and Stalkers can't dual to Cleric. If I could dual a Stalker to Cleric that would help to change my position in BG2.
I think Archers and Stalkers are suppose to be able to dual to Cleric and that it is a bug that got brought on by ToB, ot sure though.
Edit:
Just tested this, and if it was ever true (not sure why I was thinking it was the case) it certainly isn't the case in BG:EE. Disregard.
With that in mind a 17 Stalker / 31 Cleric would be awesome (I realize that is a huge time sink but you get 4x backstab that way)
If you want to be more reasonable with the dual, dual at 13 and you get that extra half an attack, the stalker spells, and 3x backstab.
You were right in thinking that Archers and Stalkers couldn't dual to Cleric. In BG2, they couldn't dual class at all IIRC. I think I remember reading that this only happened if you installed TOB, so most people figured it was a bug, so they fixed it for BG:EE.