Some great posts here. I am thinking I will dual at 9 for extra hp, specs in the weapons i want (x2 morning star and hammers, 3 in dual weild) suck up the less hlas and have a frontline cleric with druid stoneskins. With +5 weapons i will be one thaco less then a warrior as thaco dosent go negative right? Or am i off on this assumption?
@certus: the game always uses the "best" available thac0 progression, it does not add it together - so until cleric 15 you'll be using the leftover from you fighter class (fighter lvl 9, so thac0 of 12), then the cleric progression. your thac0 will stop at 6 at cleric lvl 22 - more than enough to hit anything twice over, so don't worry about it. (see progression tables here: http://playithardcore.com/pihwiki/index.php?title=Baldur's_Gate:_Progression_Charts)
oh yes, and while your base thac0 doesn't go into negatives, but your modified one WILL - somewhere between -5 to -10 is pretty easy for a ranger -> cleric.
@dinsdalepirahna thx. Ok it is a big difference then as multi does seem to be the power gamers choice high level.. i dont know if i could sit through another reroll session as it took me a while to get the stats i got for my plain ranger lol.
@certus: don't worry about thac0. with a thaco of -5, you'll have 75% chance of hitting enemies with even -10 AC. that's rare as all hell, the *hardest* enemies will have maybe an AC of -12.
and you'll have a better thac0 than -5. with 6 base + crom faeyr offhand + specialization + gauntlets + FoA +5, it'll be -7 or so.
long story short, thac0's the last thing you should worry about - multi is universally liked because shit like critical strike and GWW, and most of all, no downtime, not because of their awesome to hit chances.
I imagine I'll eventually play BG2/ToB with this character (which I expect to play primarily as a caster), but I'm not really focused on end-game. I've never played a really high charisma character so her 18 in charisma adds to Diantha's appeal. She'll also be able to tote more gear and have a bit more health.
Which would y'all play, and if you would choose Diantha, when would you dual her? I'm thinking probably 2 or 7.
7, 9, 13, all good. I prefer 9, next to no cost over 7 (if you have a few quest already finished, just waiting with handing 'em in), and a bit of extra hp (10 or so), without the insane downtime of lvl 13 (but no extra 1/2 attack!). if you want your extra half attack, wait till 13, or better yet, multiclass.
however... why the hell 17 str and con, not 18? it's one point each, and would make your char way more awesome. even easier considering ranger/cleric roll really damn high.
So you'd try for a better roll with Dulci? As for the strength and con, I like 14 charisma enough for a cleric/party leader that I was willing to make the trade-off.
As Sirrah Piranha mentioned, the fact that a 12 Charisma or an 8 Intelligence (Tome'd to 9 for Wands and Scrolls, or simply a 9/13 compromise) would have left you functioning just as well, in terms of Ranger/Clerickness, as the human variant. There is never a mechanical reason, overall, for a Warrior class not to have an 18 in strength; it's always, always more useful, especially when turned into a 19 strength for massive damage.
So, in the face of a suboptimal character, in BG:EE the former dualled at level 7 shall be superior.
As it stands, however, in BG2 Charisma is irrelevant in the face of the Ring of Human Influence (Charisma is largely irrelevant anyway, and whenever you need a party face, there's always Mages with the Friends spell), strength is irrelevant in the face of a +2 bonus from Tome and Machine, leaving the difference at around 1-2 points of damage, if they don't use Crom Faeyr or a belt, and constitution is irrelevant with "9 HP and mediocre regeneration" versus the Ring of Gaxx. This means that despite the 100 roll and the suspect stat distribution, the Ranger/Cleric Multiclass will still work out superior in the long term across the trilogy.
Thanks for the insights. I'd call the stat distribution "RP" rather than "suspect," but it's good to be clear about the choices you're making, and I appreciate the analysis.
I am making a Ranger/Cleric for BGEE only. I think I will dual at lvl 3 so I can get two pips in Maces and Hammers and 3 pips in dual wield. I don't want to dual at 6 because I don't want a lot of downtime. Does this sound okay?
I am making a Ranger/Cleric for BGEE only. I think I will dual at lvl 3 so I can get two pips in Maces and Hammers and 3 pips in dual wield. I don't want to dual at 6 because I don't want a lot of downtime. Does this sound okay?
Ranger 3->Cleric works fine for BGEE - this was the very character I beat BG1 vanilla with...
Yea I would go with level 2 or 3. You still get a number of the benefits of being a ranger but it takes a lot less time to get them back. Plus you can get "Holy power" sooner which boosts your effectiveness in combat (particularly if you cast draw upon holy might after casting it).
For people who plan to take a ranger/cleric build to BG2 - don't forget to consider the Flail of Ages. It is arguably the best cleric weapon in the whole saga, along, perhaps, with Crom Faeyr (or whatever that special hammer is called). I wouldn't want to use up all my pips on hammer and mace without investing at least one in flail, even though it won't pay off until BG2.
For people who plan to take a ranger/cleric build to BG2 - don't forget to consider the Flail of Ages. It is arguably the best cleric weapon in the whole saga, along, perhaps, with Crom Faeyr (or whatever that special hammer is called). I wouldn't want to use up all my pips on hammer and mace without investing at least one in flail, even though it won't pay off until BG2.
Comments
There are several mods that changes experience point cap...
oh yes, and while your base thac0 doesn't go into negatives, but your modified one WILL - somewhere between -5 to -10 is pretty easy for a ranger -> cleric.
and you'll have a better thac0 than -5. with 6 base + crom faeyr offhand + specialization + gauntlets + FoA +5, it'll be -7 or so.
long story short, thac0's the last thing you should worry about - multi is universally liked because shit like critical strike and GWW, and most of all, no downtime, not because of their awesome to hit chances.
Diantha (human): 18/29, 18, 18, 10, 18, 18
Dulci (half elf): 17, 18, 17, 10, 18, 14
I imagine I'll eventually play BG2/ToB with this character (which I expect to play primarily as a caster), but I'm not really focused on end-game. I've never played a really high charisma character so her 18 in charisma adds to Diantha's appeal. She'll also be able to tote more gear and have a bit more health.
Which would y'all play, and if you would choose Diantha, when would you dual her? I'm thinking probably 2 or 7.
however... why the hell 17 str and con, not 18? it's one point each, and would make your char way more awesome. even easier considering ranger/cleric roll really damn high.
So, in the face of a suboptimal character, in BG:EE the former dualled at level 7 shall be superior.
As it stands, however, in BG2 Charisma is irrelevant in the face of the Ring of Human Influence (Charisma is largely irrelevant anyway, and whenever you need a party face, there's always Mages with the Friends spell), strength is irrelevant in the face of a +2 bonus from Tome and Machine, leaving the difference at around 1-2 points of damage, if they don't use Crom Faeyr or a belt, and constitution is irrelevant with "9 HP and mediocre regeneration" versus the Ring of Gaxx.
This means that despite the 100 roll and the suspect stat distribution, the Ranger/Cleric Multiclass will still work out superior in the long term across the trilogy.
2 level ranger in BG1 (downtime stinks)
_crom for for cleric_ ?!
FoA is _THE BEST DAMAGE WEAPON_ in the game