Party Composition (MEGA-SPOILERS)

shawne

Following the absolutely delightful surprise included in the latest patch, I'm rethinking the strategy for my next playthrough and I'd love to hear from more experienced players as to whether it's viable.

Originally, my plan was to have Dorn and Kagain as my front-line fighters, Shar-Teel as the party thief/archer, Viconia as the healer and Neera as the backup mage to my Sorcerer PC.

The thing is, Baeloth is just too tempting to pass up. My first instinct was to bring him in instead of Neera, since that would remove the potential dangers of her wild surges... but I'm really curious about her storyline.

I think I've found a solution, but I have no idea if it would actually work: could Montaron serve as both the second fighter (instead of Kagain) and the party thief (ie: handling traps/locks)? That would free up a spot for Baeloth, and with him as my secondary mage and Neera as my third, the risk of wild surges would be much lower (since I'd only use her as a last resort).

Would that lineup work through to the endgame?

KidCarnival

Umm, Montaron can do that, yes. He might need a potion here and there, but it's possible. However, if Neera is a very last resort, that means she's basically useless as a caster, right? If you only let her cast if the others ran out of spells, she'd be standing around and trying to stay alive because she couldn't even cast protection without, well, casting. That is, at first, pretty hard to pull off because her hitpoints are laughable. She's not a Kagain you can just forget about in a battle and he'll come back with a minor injury as if nothing happened. And generally, it feels like a wasted slot to have a party member that mainly does nothing at all. Sure, you can have her as a ranged fighter, but for that, there are a lot better choices.

Quartz

Three mages is a bit silly. I would advise changing your PC. That said yes, Montaron *can* pull that off. I know the naysayers are going to come in very soon now and tell me I'm insane, but I have totally done it, in vanilla BG where thieves only get 20 points instead of 30 no less. If you progress him in nothing but Open Locks and Find Traps he'll do just fine with that. Keep a Potion of Perception or two on-hand. You can buy like 5 of them from the vendor outside Durlag's Tower, so sometime take a detour there and pick them up. You'll do fine with those. If you really, really need to stack potions, you can go pretty crazy:
Potion of Perception
Potion of Mastery Thievery
Potion of Mind Focusing (people seem to forget about this one)
You can buy Potions of Mind Focusing at the Friendly Arm Inn temple.
Furthermore, Montaron is a pretty decent fighter up until you find the Gauntlets of Ogre Power. And then he kicks total ass. I would advise having him run around with a shield equipped, FYI. Bentley's Buckler actually is a pretty good option for him, which can be bought at the Friendly Arm Inn. (Constitution 15 -> 16)
Until you get the Gauntlets of Ogre Power, have one of your plethora of mages memorize a couple Strength spells per day. They would benefit Monty greatly, and the duration of that spell is really quite long.

[Deleted User]

Montaron also makes very good use of the Mithril Chain Shirt +4, and if you're playing an evil party you probably don't have any compunctions against killing Drizzt...

Quartz

Kaigen said:

Montaron also makes very good use of the Mithril Chain Shirt +4, and if you're playing an evil party you probably don't have any compunctions against killing Drizzt...

Ahh, well said indeed. Yes, that armor goes with Monty like milk and cookies.

shawne

@KidCarnival: You're absolutely right - I'd really only be keeping Neera around for her content rather than any functional purpose...

Is it possible to complete Neera's questline before reaching level 5? At least then I could send her off without missing out on her story...

[Deleted User]

I'm pretty sure you can get to Adoy's Enclave pretty early by force-talking her (or maybe just hanging around a while waiting for the convo to trigger). As far as I'm aware, there really isn't that much content for her afterwards except for the romance talks.

KidCarnival

You could try to use console cheats to speed up her quest. Either progress time a lot, or force talk to her. I have no clue if her quest is tied to specific events or levels, but I would guess it's the same as with Dorn. (You have some talks, but the progession is triggered by encounters. So you can just rush to those maps and encounter whoever you have to encounter.)

shawne

I'd rather not use the console - kind of spoils the game for me. If I recall, the last time I played BG I was at level 4 just after the Nashkel Mines; hopefully I'll be able to trigger and complete Neera's quest at that point, swap her out for Baeloth at level 5, then proceed normally...

CMN

Charname Elf Assassin (shadow armor + boots of stealth + potions of master thievery + eagle bow + bracers of archery + 19 natural dex + 19 str with tome)

Kagain (gauntlets of dexterity + cursed girdle of hill giant strenght + 20 natural CON + grand mastery with axes)

Viconia (gauntlets of ogre power + full plate mail + 19 natural dex)

Dorn

Edwin

Baeloth

Oxford_Guy

CMN said:

Charname Elf Assassin (shadow armor + boots of stealth + potions of master thievery + eagle bow + bracers of archery + 19 natural dex + 19 str with tome)

Kagain (gauntlets of dexterity + cursed girdle of hill giant strenght + 20 natural CON + grand mastery with axes)

Viconia (gauntlets of ogre power + full plate mail + 19 natural dex)

Dorn

Edwin

Baeloth

I recently started a game as an evil Jester, am thinking:

CHARNAME (NE female half-elf Jester with scimitars/darts)

Dorn (Kagain initially)

Shar-Teel (dualed to thief at Level 3 Fighter), replacing Monty(?)

Viconia

Edwin (maybe Neera)

Baeloth


Might be a bit spellcaster-heavy, though, and would have to rely on Invisibility spells for scouting and Shar-Teel's backstabs, as not enough thief points to put into Move Silently/Hide in Shadows *and* Find Traps/Open Locks with just one thief. Might drop Edwin/Neera after picking up Baleloth and take Monty along as well...

Oxford_Guy

Quartz said:

Kaigen said:

Montaron also makes very good use of the Mithril Chain Shirt +4, and if you're playing an evil party you probably don't have any compunctions against killing Drizzt...

Ahh, well said indeed. Yes, that armor goes with Monty like milk and cookies.

Can you use thieving skills in Drizzt's Armour?

CMN

@Oxford_Guy: Kagain well equipped is the toughest warrior NPC. Just imagine him with 19 STR (cursed girdle), 18 DEX (gauntlets) and 20 CON (natural), fully regenerating between maps and rests, wearing full plate mail +1, large shield +2 and helm of balduran. He gets an awesome armor class and also has a -5 bonus on saving throws (dwarf). But Kagain is not just a great tank, he is a heavy hitter with grand mastery in axes and wielding a battle axe +2. Truly a melee god!

Kagain + Dorn should be your front line

stygga

@oxford_guy yes confirmed so on Coran.

Oxford_Guy

stygga said:

@oxford_guy yes confirmed so on Coran.

Does it give the same thieving penalties as elven chain? i.e. -10% to Move Silently, -5% Pick Locks, -5% Detect/Disarm Traps, and -20% to Pick Pockets (from: http://www.pocketplane.net/volothamp/chap6.htm)

Also am I right in thinking you can't cast arcane spells in it (unlike elven chain)? Thanks!

shawne

@CMN: I don't know... stat-wise, Montaron seems to have the advantage over Kagain. True, he can't regenerate, but 17 DEX means I could give the Gauntlets to Dorn, and if Montaron can handle all the thieving duties at Durlag's (with the occasional potion), that leaves a slot open for Shar-Teel as a third front-line combatant.

(Admittedly, my preference for Shar-Teel over Kagain is less about powergaming and more about RPing: taking out Neera would leave Viconia as the only woman in the party...)

Okay, so:

Dorn: Front-line fighter
Shar-Teel: Front-line fighter
Montaron: Front-line fighter and trap/lock problem solver
Viconia: Healer
Neera: Backup mage, replaced by Baeloth after the Nashkel Mines

I think I've found my new party. Thanks, everyone!

[Deleted User]

Oxford_Guy said:

Does it give the same thieving penalties as elven chain? i.e. -10% to Move Silently, -5% Pick Locks, -5% Detect/Disarm Traps, and -20% to Pick Pockets (from: http://www.pocketplane.net/volothamp/chap6.htm)

Also am I right in thinking you can't cast arcane spells in it (unlike elven chain)? Thanks!

You are right that you can't cast arcane spells in it. It doesn't appear to give any thieving penalties (at least, none show up on my Cleric/Thief's character sheet).

Erg

Kaigen said:

Oxford_Guy said:

Does it give the same thieving penalties as elven chain? i.e. -10% to Move Silently, -5% Pick Locks, -5% Detect/Disarm Traps, and -20% to Pick Pockets (from: http://www.pocketplane.net/volothamp/chap6.htm)

Also am I right in thinking you can't cast arcane spells in it (unlike elven chain)? Thanks!

You are right that you can't cast arcane spells in it. It doesn't appear to give any thieving penalties (at least, none show up on my Cleric/Thief's character sheet).

Yep, no thieving penalties. Confirmed with NI.

Oxford_Guy

Erg said:

Kaigen said:

Oxford_Guy said:

Does it give the same thieving penalties as elven chain? i.e. -10% to Move Silently, -5% Pick Locks, -5% Detect/Disarm Traps, and -20% to Pick Pockets (from: http://www.pocketplane.net/volothamp/chap6.htm)

Also am I right in thinking you can't cast arcane spells in it (unlike elven chain)? Thanks!

You are right that you can't cast arcane spells in it. It doesn't appear to give any thieving penalties (at least, none show up on my Cleric/Thief's character sheet).

Yep, no thieving penalties. Confirmed with NI.

Could be useful for my Jester to wear when attempting a difficult pickpocket then...

Erg

Oxford_Guy said:

Erg said:

Kaigen said:

Oxford_Guy said:

Does it give the same thieving penalties as elven chain? i.e. -10% to Move Silently, -5% Pick Locks, -5% Detect/Disarm Traps, and -20% to Pick Pockets (from: http://www.pocketplane.net/volothamp/chap6.htm)

Also am I right in thinking you can't cast arcane spells in it (unlike elven chain)? Thanks!

You are right that you can't cast arcane spells in it. It doesn't appear to give any thieving penalties (at least, none show up on my Cleric/Thief's character sheet).

Yep, no thieving penalties. Confirmed with NI.

Could be useful for my Jester to wear when attempting a difficult pickpocket then...

Or even better you can just remove completely your armour, unless your against this from a roleplaying perspective.

Oxford_Guy

Erg said:

Oxford_Guy said:

Erg said:

Kaigen said:

Oxford_Guy said:

Does it give the same thieving penalties as elven chain? i.e. -10% to Move Silently, -5% Pick Locks, -5% Detect/Disarm Traps, and -20% to Pick Pockets (from: http://www.pocketplane.net/volothamp/chap6.htm)

Also am I right in thinking you can't cast arcane spells in it (unlike elven chain)? Thanks!

You are right that you can't cast arcane spells in it. It doesn't appear to give any thieving penalties (at least, none show up on my Cleric/Thief's character sheet).

Yep, no thieving penalties. Confirmed with NI.

Could be useful for my Jester to wear when attempting a difficult pickpocket then...

Or even better you can just remove completely your armour, unless your against this from a roleplaying perspective.

Well if the the attempt fails that's not really going to help me defend myself...

Erg

Oxford_Guy said:

Erg said:

Oxford_Guy said:

Erg said:

Kaigen said:

Oxford_Guy said:

Does it give the same thieving penalties as elven chain? i.e. -10% to Move Silently, -5% Pick Locks, -5% Detect/Disarm Traps, and -20% to Pick Pockets (from: http://www.pocketplane.net/volothamp/chap6.htm)

Also am I right in thinking you can't cast arcane spells in it (unlike elven chain)? Thanks!

You are right that you can't cast arcane spells in it. It doesn't appear to give any thieving penalties (at least, none show up on my Cleric/Thief's character sheet).

Yep, no thieving penalties. Confirmed with NI.

Could be useful for my Jester to wear when attempting a difficult pickpocket then...

Or even better you can just remove completely your armour, unless your against this from a roleplaying perspective.

Well if the the attempt fails that's not really going to help me defend myself...

You're right. I didn't think about that because I'm a cheater and when I fail a pickpocket attempt I usually reload :-P

Kortok

Any lineup can work through the entire game really, especially with the powerhouses you are looking at.

pakbgee

I'm using
main character (Archer, with 18 str, 20 dex, 18 con) with -1 THAC0 and deadly in range with deadshot. I can be substitute tank wearing the Ankheg armor.
Dorn (my main tank), wear gauntlet of dex, helm of balduran, full plate , ring+2 and all the AC stuff i can give him have -8 AC (and massive bonus on piercing slashing and missile).
Viconia - backup tank , wearing gauntlet of ogre power, fullplate, the huge shield with +5 missile and +1ac, belt with slashing bonus, etc. at -7 AC (and good bonus on missile, slashing)
Coran - secondary archer that has 3 THAC0 and wielding Deadshot, open lock 100, and disable trap close to 80. AC is -4 wearing Mithral chainmail +4 from drizzt.
Edwin - my utility mage.
(now) Baeloth - my WMD mage (i dropped Neera for him, i was done with her quest its time for her to chill off for a while in the Friendly Arm Inn )

Debaser

shawne said:

Following the absolutely delightful surprise included in the latest patch, I'm rethinking the strategy for my next playthrough and I'd love to hear from more experienced players as to whether it's viable.

Originally, my plan was to have Dorn and Kagain as my front-line fighters, Shar-Teel as the party thief/archer, Viconia as the healer and Neera as the backup mage to my Sorcerer PC.

The thing is, Baeloth is just too tempting to pass up. My first instinct was to bring him in instead of Neera, since that would remove the potential dangers of her wild surges... but I'm really curious about her storyline.

I think I've found a solution, but I have no idea if it would actually work: could Montaron serve as both the second fighter (instead of Kagain) and the party thief (ie: handling traps/locks)? That would free up a spot for Baeloth, and with him as my secondary mage and Neera as my third, the risk of wild surges would be much lower (since I'd only use her as a last resort).

Would that lineup work through to the endgame?

You can recruit Baeloth now?!?!!?

Illustair

@Debaser
The title doesn't say MEGA-SPOILERS for nothing.:D

Debaser

@fredamora TELL ME HOW!!!!!!! =P I care not for spoilers...GIMME! =P

Illustair

@Debaser

They say in chapter 3 Larswoord, by the tower. You have to be level 5 at least. Don't take my word for it though, I haven't been there myself.

Awesome, isn't it? It could have had been a DLC, and yet they just gave it for free.

Debaser

@fredamora - THAT HIS HILARIOUS!! I wonder if they did more voice acting with him....He's actually a great character. Also...I wonder if this takes place AFTER the Black Pits for him....hrmn....

Debaser

@fredamora THANKS!

Flashburn

@Debaser
Yep, Black Pits takes place before BG apparently. And yes, Baeloth is voice-acted just like the 3 new NPCs. I wonder if he is going to come with us to BG2EE or if he's going to stay in BG1EE.