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Let everything be moddable!

DazzuDazzu Member Posts: 950
edited July 2012 in General Modding
Simply put, leave as little as possible hard coded to allow for an almost fully moddable experience: Fully moddable UI, fully moddable class/race/multiclass/kit screens... the list goes on!

This would help the game live forever!

I doubt anyone would disagree with this sentiment of almost full mod customization capacity.
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Comments

  • William_ImmWilliam_Imm Member Posts: 72
    Everything is moddable if you have the patience and creativity.
  • CorianderCoriander Member Posts: 1,667
    True, but I have seen the assembler that this code spits out and I think I took SAN damage.
  • DazzuDazzu Member Posts: 950
    Everything is moddable if you have the patience and creativity.
    You cannot alter the hotbar at the bottom so that a bard kit could have Turn Undead in place of Pick Pockets. You can't create a Cleric/Thief/Mage true multiclass and make the mage act like a sorcerer. I can't add a genuine Kobold Race to the race select screen... can I?

    Genuine question, can all of these and more be done?
  • Avenger_teambgAvenger_teambg Member, Developer Posts: 5,862
    edited July 2012
    True, but I have seen the assembler that this code spits out and I think I took SAN damage.
    That implies Asc64 has seen Cthulhu, but i also feel like having seen the Old Ones (with the full IDA DB of all 5 games).
  • MikeMike Member Posts: 65
    True, but I have seen the assembler that this code spits out and I think I took SAN damage.
    That implies Asc64 has seen Cthulhu, but i also feel like having seen the Old Ones (with the full IDA DB of all 5 games).
    I have no idea what you just said but yes, let it be moddable!
  • AndreaColomboAndreaColombo Member Posts: 5,533
    That implies Asc64 has seen Cthulhu
    Wait, I was under the impression that @Ascension64 was Chtulhu!
  • ShapiroKeatsDarkMageShapiroKeatsDarkMage Member Posts: 2,428


    This would help the game live forever!

    WHO WAAAANTS TO LIIIIVE FOREVEEER?

    Seriosly though, i would love the idea if it helps gaining a larger fandom.
  • ZeckulZeckul Member Posts: 1,036
    edited July 2012
    True, but I have seen the assembler that this code spits out and I think I took SAN damage.
    Easy, just put the source on Github. :)

    - P.S. that was a joke

    Post edited by Zeckul on
  • AndreaColomboAndreaColombo Member Posts: 5,533
    @Zeckul - I'm not sure EA and WotC would be very happy with that ;-)
  • DazzuDazzu Member Posts: 950
    There are people who don't want this game fully moddable? I'm shocked.
  • CuvCuv Member, Developer Posts: 2,535
    That implies Asc64 has seen Cthulhu
    Wait, I was under the impression that @Ascension64 was Chtulhu!
    No... he is the other one, that other thing... you know... the one whose name you are never supposed to utter!

  • GrammarsaladGrammarsalad Member Posts: 2,582
    Absolutely!
  • CamDawgCamDawg Member, Developer Posts: 3,439
    That implies Asc64 has seen Cthulhu
    Wait, I was under the impression that @Ascension64 was Chtulhu!
    No... he is the other one, that other thing... you know... the one whose name you are never supposed to utter!

    NO! Cam will not give the jar. The jar is Cam's and his alone.
  • CoM_SolaufeinCoM_Solaufein Member Posts: 2,606
    Things are moddable even when one thinks its impossible to do. For the longest time people thought it was impossible to have NPCs in Icewind Dale due to the way the game was coded. But after time someone finally made it possible and now we have an NPC for IWD at PPG. All it takes is a little trial and error and patience.
  • DazzuDazzu Member Posts: 950
    So could one, technically, create a Druid/Ranger, Druid/Mage or Ranger/Mage class? Can the hotbar UI be changed? Can hardcoding be fully overcome?

    I ask this, because EE should offer zero hard coding to fully customize our moddable experience.
  • AndreaColomboAndreaColombo Member Posts: 5,533
    @Dazzu - I'm not sure zero hardcoding is actually feasible, and @Avenger_teambg once mentioned some things are better left hardcoded as softcoding them would mean more trouble than benefit (I think he was referring to the .CRE file format, specifically). However, if there is something specific that you would like to see unhardcoded, you could request it in the Master Thread of Externalization Requests and I'd add it to the OP.
  • Avenger_teambgAvenger_teambg Member, Developer Posts: 5,862
    Custom class combinations would be cool, and possible, though it is easily a modding chaos.
  • DazzuDazzu Member Posts: 950
    I'll retract my doubt of full moddability when I can have a party larger than 6.
  • BoasterBoaster Member Posts: 622
    So is it possible to modify Paladins and Rangers to not lose their classes when their reputation is dropped to a certain level?
  • jcomptonjcompton Member Posts: 157
    edited July 2012
    Removing party limits would, among other things, require a number of new scripting operations which target all members of a party generally. Infinity scripting can do some operations over a party (such as TakePartyItem, etc) but there's no general case in the scripting language to iterate one command over the player party (or an arbitrary group of creatures, items, areas, etc.)

    That's one of the reasons that simply removing the mechanical six-character limit wouldn't make an Infinity game playable by a party of seven or 17 characters: Infinity scripts are loaded down with stupid (but necessary-given-the-script-language's-constraints) grunt work like

    DoSomethingTo(Player1)
    DoSomethingTo(Player2)
    DoSomethingTo(Player3)
    DoSomethingTo(Player4)
    DoSomethingTo(Player5)
    DoSomethingTo(Player6)

    In an ideal world you'd have some syntax like

    IterateMyCommandOverThisList(DoSomethingTo(), [ListOfPlayerPartyCreatures()])

    ...but I wouldn't suggest you hold out for that ideal world.
  • Avenger_teambgAvenger_teambg Member, Developer Posts: 5,862
    Just adding DoSomethingToParty() for some stuff would fix the problem (in a not too elegant, but cheap way)
  • cmorgancmorgan Member Posts: 707
    There would need to be some serious updating/rewriting for dialog-centered mods. Doable, but definitely necessary - the best case scenario is dialog simply ignores the existence of a 7th party member. The more serious hassle is multiple lines playing (if someone has set NumInPartyGT() calls). And in some cases, lines will end up with a NVROL. But these are relatively easy to fix/update, if modders want to/are given alternative calls. After all, in order for there to be 7 in the party, there also has to be 6, which is the largest dialog target allowed for current content creation.

    It would decrease the cross-compatability with older mods. But it would let new mods play with an expanded characterscape.
  • GalactygonGalactygon Member, Developer Posts: 412
    Much of the MoveBetweenAreas() will have to be rewritten as well, otherwise you'd find 6 party members in Brynnlaw and the rest would be stuck in Athkatla.

    -Galactygon
  • jcomptonjcompton Member Posts: 157
    Updating the existing games would be insane. Using "Player6" as a search team (indicating that code is doing something which must be applied to all party members), in my slightly modded BG2 install, I count 749 BCS instances where "Player6" is mentioned, and another 230 in DLGs.

    Solution: Make future games in an engine with a less-awful scripting language. (Seriously, is there anybody out there who thinks Infinity script is anything better than "barely adequate"?)
  • AndreaColomboAndreaColombo Member Posts: 5,533
    jcompton said:

    (Seriously, is there anybody out there who thinks Infinity script is anything better than "barely adequate"?)

    Yet, it attracted several generations of modders whose works are still alive and kicking 14 years after its release :-)

  • jcomptonjcompton Member Posts: 157
    The 1199 entries on the modlist are a testament to the gameplay and storytelling of the five Infinity Engine games, *not* a tribute to the accessibility of the engine.
  • ElysElys Member Posts: 100
    I would also love the possibility to extend the party size but I assume that would require party code and script updates as already mentioned above, as well at the party formation system since it only handles 6 slots. There is also the issue with members getting stuck or going on a crazy path with a large party. It already happens with 6 characters in tight rooms :p
  • mlnevesemlnevese Member, Moderator Posts: 10,214
    edited August 2012
    I would like to see a bigger party too, mainly for party interactions in BG 2, but there would be so many things to change. Spells, transition scripts, and others. Maybe someday :)
    Post edited by mlnevese on
  • NWN_babaYagaNWN_babaYaga Member Posts: 732
    hehe, if they gonna implement a 7th partymember (dont forget that you have summons and familars too) why not a 8th and 11th... a whole clan of bhallspawns:D
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