DLC with Tiamat and Lolth in BG 2 EE

Bastion72

Don't ya think it will be awesome? I mean 5 headed 20 feet tall dragon...
I know it seems historically unlogical but what ya say about: In some secret cavern Tiamat rise and intends to create a powerful dragon army to conquer all of Amn. Her brother Bahamut asks you for help by contacting you in one of your dreams and you go to cleanse the cavern with Bahamut's blessing ( kinda similiar to the wathcer's keep and the 2 DLC from mass effect- the shadow broker and project overlord). That DLC is not about story (coz it looks pretty simple the way i describe it) but about the epicness of the fight with Tiamat ( like it was with the shadowbroker in mass effect 2).

And about the DLC with Lolth. Dont ya think it will be awesome if we have a chance to secretly infiltrate Lolth's domain with Viconia's help? I mean that's kinda similiar to Lelianna's song from Dragon age. One of your faithful companions asks you for help and you intend to help him. Like Liara asks you to help her with the shadowbroker in mass effect 3. By killing Lolth you change the future storyline and the ending of the game. Viconia survives in the end and your child is raised by both mother and father. It sounds really good to me. In my opinion the dlc and the sidequests should have affect on the main story. In mass effect 2 if you dont complete project overlord and the shadowbroker in mass effect 3 Liara is not as strong as if she became the shadowbroker and brings you less ems points and you dont meet the overlord creator and do not receive additional ems. It's the same in dragon age. If you dont complete ''return to ostagar'' Alistar will feel urgent that he did not bid his father a proper farewell. It's even the same in BG 2. If you dont complete ''Wathcer's keep'' ( it's not dlc but it kinda feels like dlc) it's secrets remain hidden forever.

What's your opinion about my idea?

Ano

I like the Idea :-)

lars_rosenberg

I like the Lolth part :-)

NWN_babaYaga

I think the d&do expansion is so wrong about adding in lolth and so will the devs be about BGEE2 then. She is a brilliant and iconic figure and a good puppet-master for a background story of a module. But to make her appear/ talked to or even fight against...

Bastion72

@NWN_babaYaga True,but don't ya think it will be good if we r able to interfere with Lolth somehow so that Viconia can survive in the end? If she dies it's written that ''some people say the protagonist organized a crusade against the spider queen with his son''. This way the bhaalspawn story remains kinda sad and incomplete...
It will be good if we can change that.

kamuizin

Dude, i didn't like much the idea, but it's a request and maybe other ppl like it (already 2 persons liked the idea). If not happen you can always ask to a modder to help you build this (or make yourself if you area a modder).

Viconia is an outcast, if she put her foot in Lolth realm, where her power is at the peak, viconia would insantly die or instantly be captured to receive tortures, no way of this line of idea to work, you can try an idea with an avatar of Lolth appearing on Ush Natha, when an outcast is helping a surface party to squash the city of her faithfuls servants (she can take that personal, i believe).

That would make sense if instead of run after the ritual you start to squash the city, killing the fountain of her faith in hundreds, therefore humiliating her. But a Lolth avatar could be to much to trow in a SoA party.

About your idea with Tiamat i really didn't like it and neither i have a better suggestion fo it.


Ps: Liara ask for help with the shadow broker in Mass Effect 2, in Mass Effect 3 she "become" the new shadow broker.

Bastion72

@kamuizin I rly like your idea of Lolth's avatar. What i writed in my upper comment is just and example of my point. The main thing i'm trying to say that it will be good if we can somehow change the storyline and some character's endings by doing additional character's or side quests ( like in ME2 if the person is not loyal,he dies in the end ya know). Some character's dead are inevitable trough,like Thane (ME) and Keldorn-they were old,passed trough many wars,etc... But do you remember Miranda in ME3? If you have romance with her and by doin things trough the game( inform her that Kai Leng prepares to kill her) you can save her or you may not.This way the main storyline is completely different and has affect on the ending. Sry for sayin it again but Viconia wasn't surpossed to die like that.... (I thought about modding but i never use mods coz it kinda does not feel right to me )

Abou Tiamat...well when i was a child she was my favourite villain and i ve always wanted to kill her ;d

ps: I ll be happy if all you guys can understand my point and idea

kamuizin

The only thing i would like to change on the content about Ush Natha and the drow disguise, would be an evil option, where we give the silver eggs to the demon lord AND ask his help in fight the drows that are on the surface (just a turn of the table on the drows that intented to use the demon to attack the elvens, that would be fun AND sweet evil).

The item that the Lesser Demon Lord gave to the party is useless anyway (a +2 halberd), so a little extra content, of a Lesser Demon Lord invading the city and then... poof... the drows are taken by surprise when he turn on them (even making some of the other demons to turn on the drows). Another option for this would be a plot fight betwen the Lesser Demon Lord and the dragon Irenicus put guarding the golbet if we make the deal.

I doubt this gonna happen, and a mod like this if not well made will lead to a lot of bugs, but one can always hope, no? !

Bastion72

@kamuizin Well i hope it happens,coz it sounds pretty good.

NWN_babaYaga

@Bastion72 I´m not against the idea of using lolth as an untouchable plotfigure in the story of viconias fate. That would be a cool new adventure i´m realy interested in. And I love the underdark anyway so any return to it´s darkness is most welcome. But it must be a difficult task to create a module where either Lolth loses interest in punishing viconia or forgive her, not the nature of the spiderqueen tough

Bastion72

@NWN_babaYaga Yeah,but not impossible through. But she can be convinced that it's not good to mess with a child of Bhaal or his mates. That can be avaible if @kamuizin 's ideas happen.

NWN_babaYaga

it's not good to mess with a child of Bhaal or his mates.

thats an argument;) someone needs to sketch out a story plot and start to learn the mod tools:D

Bastion72

@NWN_babaYaga the 4 main things i wanna see in BG2 EE are:
1.Viconia lives
2.No changes on Minsc
3.More major storyline choices with consequences
4.bug fixes

If that doesnt happen then i'll need to become a modder ;d

kamuizin

I believe i understand your point @Bastion72. In the end of ToB, IF you're romancing Viconia, and IF you refuse the godhood, viconia don't die in her end history.

I don't remember if you do the plot actions and change Viconia aligment from neutral evil to chaotic good in ToB she would die or not.(but i'm not certain in this one).

Bastion72

@kamuizin I don't think it works man,i ve read that it is avaible with a mod but kinda bugs and shows Edwin instead of her. As far as i know if you romance her,she born you a heir and it's innevitable to die from poison.
But anyway i ll reload my old save and try it. Ty

kamuizin

I just got an confirmation:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pIeB4QJ3h4A

Viconia NON-romance chaotic good end finsh with her alive (or at least with an unknow fate).

NWN_babaYaga

Thats a good end:)

TrentOster

Wizards of the Coast can be pretty protective of major characters/deities in the realms. They try to keep the happenings in the universe coherent between the novels, the rules material and the computer stuff. As such, it can be hard to write plots around them and we likely couldn't kill anyone off.
The original storyline proposed for NWN:HotU was to descend into the Underdark and fight Lloth. That was killed as she was involved in other things during that timeline.

-Trent

Bastion72

@kamuizin Yeah,i just got it ingame (ty for the info again). But this way she's no longer with protagonist and he does not have a heir and it's non-romanceble. The one thing i'm tryin to say is that it will be good if they just change the last 2 lines in the romaceble ending with something like ''they lived happilly ever after,unicorns,butterflies,rabbits ;d ''. (I heard it's avaible with the flirt pack) But it will be much better if that's the ''official ending'' dont ya think so?

Bastion72

@TrentOster That's one of the reasons why Lolth annoys me. She is like Chuck Norris. Immortal ya know ;d

dive_darkness

Well, I'm like Bastion72. The fact that you could kill Llolth is kinda weird. All the drizzt company had problem (in the books story), to "kill" only three ta'narri. Llolth can kill them without even moving -_-'. So I think the idea is good, but the ending would be more like a battle with the yochlols or running for your lives.

kamuizin

Well, kill or mess hard with a great Deity is really problematic, but kill her avatar doesn't sound so problematic to me, as a greater deity she can have 20 avatar forms at the same time (if i'm not wrong), and she can reshape the slain form in one year, so i don't think a dead avatar should be of much problem. The problem would be kill an avatar of a greater god in SoA level (if that's even possible. Think in Demongorgon's avatar power, now x10 and probally we're a little near Lolth's avatar power).

Bastion72

@kamuizin It's rly annoying that Viconia dies like that and Lolth is ''untouchable''. I mean if you become the new lord of murder aren't you supposed to be stronger than her(correct me if i m wrong)? And how can a simple assassin pass trough all the guards (in your new palace) and poison Viconia before you even understand there's and intruder. If you re a god then you are supposed to have some sensing ability right?
It will be much better if the last lines of the romance ending change from ''however,she was poisoned by a servant of Lolth...'' to '' Lolth did not forgot about Viconia's treachery and made several attempts to punish her.However they all failed because she was now under the protective wing of the lord of murder''(or something similiar)

Drugar

Important note: When you ascend to godhood, you become the god of Death, not Saving Lives. Even a Lawful Good god of Death has to abide by his portfolio or he gets demoted quickly.
As a god, you're not just a more powerful mortal, you're seeing death on a global scale, every single death passes through you. You sort-of keep your personality but not really because you're now the Ultimate Force on your portfolio. Humanity and its attachments are beneath you.
I figure that the God Charname saw Viconia's death but being who/what he is, could not stop it, would not stop it, because that's not his job. His job is sending souls to Kelemvor. No exceptions.

Bastion72

@Drugar This is ridiculos. What's the purposse of being a god if you can't use your power. You just stay on your throne for eternity and do nothing... But why have they added the line ''some say he waged a war against Lolth''
His dogma is not to wage war (as you said) right?
And if Viconia is on his territory or near him i doubt she can get killed by an assassin. He has no right to save lives but can protect his family (correct me if i m wrong). Doesn't make any sense at all.
I still think it will be good enough if they only change the last 2 lines of the romanceble ending.

geselle

Once i reached godhood - Lolth it's on, not that i don't like your style, but spiders give me the creeps, so prepare to get squashed

Drugar

If it resulted in a tons of deaths, maybe. But the other gods would frown on it, few gods actively wage war on another.
You're not sitting on your throne doing nothing, you're the boss of Death Inc. Overseeing all deaths, inspiring more deaths to happen. When Kelemvor and Midnight just became gods, they also tried to meddle with the Grand Order by trying to do good (punishing the wicked/rewarding the good and withholding magic from evil people respectively) and they almost got demoted for it. It wasn't their place to judge and save the world, just to take care of their own portfolio. That's the downside of godhood.

Bastion72

@Drugar I agree with you but there are some illogical things i dont understand. If the god of murder inspires deaths as well then he is a chaotic evil god. Evil gods are vengeful. If Lolth kill Viconia i doubt he will just stand like that. If it's needed he ll break the godly law only to avenge her. And why the assassin kills only Viconia? I mean:her child bears her blood. Also the gods can have relationships right? I mean Bhaal had a relationship with some mortal women or a godess (i m not sure about this one so you can correct me). Also as i said before,if Viconia is on the lord of murder territory i doubt someone CAN or dare cross it. That means war right? I doubt Lolth will want to wage war against such powerful god only to kill ''his queen''(not sure again).

Also i saw some videos on youtube from DD online where random players kill Lolth (boss fight ya know) and she seems pretty easy. How can Drizzt fail and some mortals kill her just like that? (it was sayed: ''punish the queen of the underdark'' (or something like that) in the trailer).
This way the whole DD story seems a little cock and bull. Like some paradox ya know.

NWN_babaYaga

When I think about Lolth´s power I compare her more to a Ungolianth kind of villain. The uberspider from the Silmarion saga from Tolkien. That one was a nasty critter and just disapeared into the nowhere leaving behind a big mess! The D&DO adaption is more like a cartoon for kids imo and the demonweb pits are also meh... why would she illuminate her domain at all, how stupid of her...even drows casts darkness to gain a benefit. I realy hate it when cool enemies with strong backgrounds turn into stupid cannonfooder just because of gameplay reasons. Then better let it be!

Bastion72

@NWN_babaYaga Agree. Still,the protagonist dnt have a reason to wage war with Lolth( but that changes when Lolth kills Viconia). The only think i ask the devs is: plz let Viconia live with the romance ending so that the bhaalspawn story may end peacufuly.

geselle

@NWN_babaYaga Agree. Still,the protagonist dnt have a reason to wage war with Lolth( but that changes when Lolth kills Viconia). The only think i ask the devs is: plz let Viconia live with the romance ending so that the bhaalspawn story may end peacufuly.

Can't change existing content.