Specialist Mages don't feel specialized
Zoimos
Member Posts: 81
I don't feel like I'm a specialist in my school at all. Picking to specialist doesn't really do anything to that school (not sure if you get +1 to saving rolls for that school or other characters suffer -1 or not) and it just feels like a choice to get 1 more spell/level at the cost of what school you don't want.
I know its trying to follow d&d rules but it doesn't feel like your a specialist at all
I know its trying to follow d&d rules but it doesn't feel like your a specialist at all
8
Comments
The +1 bonus really shows though. Have you ever used Xan? Casting Sleep with him is a blast. Watch 20 people drop to the ground!
The opinion of my MAIN MAN.. 34:35 til 38:00
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=VpSzVLfXe2Y#t=2075s
I'm not sure wehat the source of this is, but at Planet Baldur's Gate, for years, the description of specialists
(http://www.planetbaldursgate.com/bg/character/classes/wizards/)
states the following:
"When saving against spells within his chosen school, the specialist receives a +1 to saving throws. Similarily, the specialist's enemies suffer a -1 penalty when saving against spells cast by the specialist within his field."
So I would like to see that actually implemented.
And maybe they could be given one extra spell slot per level that can only be used for spells from their school.
Finally, in addition I would restrict them from casting scrolls (from the quickslot) and using wands for spells in their opposition school(s). I.e., those items would be grayed out/unusable.
Anyway, something like that would make a little more sense. It would feel more like a specialization. Beyond simply not being able to scribe spells from the opposing school(s).
Anyway, I don't min/max the spell list. Given a choice, I always go with the selected school when memorizing spells. Makes it a little limiting, but what the heck? It's role playing.
I fear there is little can be done within the game engine's limits as it is. Maybe specialists can be coded to learn and cast a different version of the spells in their corresponding schools, which impose penalty to saving throws, but coding that would be very complex and difficult, if possible at all.
Actually, now that I think about it, a few new items usable by spesific specialists would be cool. Ofcourse, to make it balanced, every school should be represented by an item. So, an amulet usable only by diviners, a ring usable by enchanters, a dagger usable by necromancers, etc. These items can be found all over the game world. Nothing too powerful though, no 'dagger +5:destroyer of worlds, weapon of absolute and horrible death with no chance of save usable by necromancers only' (although I am sure Xzar would LOVE that) as not to highly encourage any specialisation more than another. Just to add a little flavour and coolness factor, is all.
The real problem is that school specialization shouldn't be a kit; it should just be an aspect of the class itself (like the ranger's favored enemy). Because it's a kit, it's dissected in the context of all the other kits in the game, which makes each specialization seem comparatively dull.
Changing this may be more trouble than it's worth, of course.
Did not know about the -1 save penalty specialists have
noober <
Edit: Personally, I like playing Transmuters in PnP, but losing Abjuration hurts too much in BG2. No Breach, No Dispel/Remove Magic. Virtually all of the spell protections and the ways to remove them are cut off from you, along with more general protection spells like PfMW.
You have things like the Red Wizards of Thay (Double specialized, double penalized, magic tattoos as you level) , Arcane Scholars of Candlekeep (Meta), Wychlaran/Vremyonni (Invokers )and Enchanters), War Wizards of Cormyr (or their charm-heavy internal mage 'police', the Alarphons), High Mages (Elven/Silverymoon), Shadowcrafters (Gnomish/Illusion), the necromantic Blackcloaks, Master Specialists (Abjuration), and keep the Wild Mage because it feels 'unique' enough.
Illusion loses 3 (Abjuration, Necromancy, Evocation), Conjuration loses Evocation and also Divination above 4th level (so they technically lose ~1.5 schools), Divination only loses one (Conjuration).
BG basically traded out 1 lost school instead of giving you the other benefits/penalties (+15% chance to learning a spell from your school, -15% chance learning spells from other schools, +1 to saves vs your school, additional -1 save penalty adding on any spells you cast from your school)
If properly implemented, they'd have to add all the shadow magic line of spells, as well as most of the illusory image spells to keep Illusionists from being completely screwed (the shadow magic spells can replicate most evocation or conjuration spells of up to 1 level lower then the shadow spell, but they only deal 80% of the normal damage (spells that don't deal damage, get 2 chances to save to avoid the effect), or 50% if the target saves vs the illusion component (and then gets to save again if the spell allows a save for further reduced/negated damage).
Also some spells have multiple schools in PnP, and as long as you have access to one of the spell's schools, you could use it even if it's also part of a disallowed school.
Specialists are also supposed to get some extra bonuses at high levels. They differ from school to school though.
Too many to list and way too varied in benefits to generalize (several gain an additional +1 to saves vs their school or items/attacks that replicate those spells), though most get 2 effects, around 17 and another at 20, but here's divination, just as an example.
Divination gets the most at 3 abilities. 17+ Complete immunity to divination spells cast by lower level non-Diviners. 19+, the ability to cast Find Traps, 3/day as a special ability. And at 20, the ability to cast the spell Divination once per day as a special ability, with no components required.
There has been a fair bit of discussion in Feature Requests about what to do for specialist mages. I would suspect that changing them may be difficult contractually. I would think that a mod probably offers the best chance to make them more interesting and fun to play.
I don't disagree, although I do think there's a missed opportunity in not making the attempt to create interesting but balanced mage kits.
A shadow mage, for instance, would be an interesting addition that wouldn't necessarily need to be more powerful; a few unique spells over the course of your career would be enough to make it unique without being more powerful. Unfortunately, with so many existing "kits" there's never been the perceived need for new kits; so a class that should have gotten three kits is left with only one (wild mage).
In PnP, Diviners lost the fewest schools (just 1) and got the most (3) and more powerful high level perks, to compensate for the general lack of benefit they get from direct specialization. Losing conjuration isn't as big a deal as it originally seems as the shadow line of spells in illusion can replicate the effects of conjuration and evocation spells, albeit with less effect (summoned creatures special abilities have no effect unless the target believes they're real, and only deal 50% of normal damage if they're disbelieved, 80% if they believe it). Not to mention, having a guaranteed slot reserved for divination, which are actually sweet in PnP, rather then cutting into your power as a plain mage is pretty awesome.