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Planescape: Damnation

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  • IsandirIsandir Member Posts: 453
    While I would like to say I'm excited by it, I'm a bit worried by two points.

    First, I think the development of a sequel to Torment is actually far more difficult than Baldur's Gate given the immense complexity of the game setting, the open-ended choices that it offers, and the large amount of text and dialogue. Torment was an exceedingly well-written game, and I've seen far too much mediocre fan fiction and game-related writing for my taste. Mods in particular are often spoiled for me by the fact that the text seems to be an afterthought, and inevitably descends into either melodramatic clichés or incomprehensible sentence fragments. If they really do have members of the original team, it certainly would help, but that's no guarantee.

    Assuming that would not be the case here, however, I'm still holding my excitement simply because of the fact that so few of these projects ever see the light of day. I held my breath for several Ultima mods for years, only to watch them slowly fade into nothing. Several sites are still saved on my computer for Indiana Jones fan games, Quest for Glory clones and many others. Of them, several have been in production since the early 2000s.

    At this point I think the best chance of Torment ever receiving a deserved sequel is through Kickstarter or similar means.

    TJ_HookerjackjackTeflon
  • NWN_babaYagaNWN_babaYaga Member Posts: 732
    Just the area art is a workload i dont know who is capable to shoulder in his free time but good luck anyway.

  • TJ_HookerTJ_Hooker Member Posts: 2,438
    I was confused for a bit, as at first I thought this was about the PS:T sequel planned by inXile. But then I remembered that that game wasn't actually going to be set in the Planescape setting.

  • FrebuFrebu Member Posts: 14
    From wikipedia:

    "Following the announcement of Baldur's Gate: Enhanced Edition, Overhaul Games announced their intention to make overhauls of more games set in the Dungeons & Dragons universes, at first naming only Planescape: Torment. They said that such a release would depend on the success of Baldur's Gate: Enhanced Edition.[74] In November 2012, Penny Arcade Report wrote that Brian Fargo, the head of inXile, had acquired the rights to Planescape: Torment.[75]
    [edit]Numenera: Torment
    In January 2013, Brian Fargo announced that the successor to Planescape: Torment was indeed in production, and would be set in the Numenera RPG universe, created by Monte Cook. Cook acted as one of the designers of the Planescape setting, and Fargo saw the Numenera setting as the natural place to continue the themes of the previous Torment title. Although the connections to its predecessor will not be relatively overt, due to licensing issues, it was noted that certain traditional RPG elements are relatively hard to copyright, and some elements of Planescape: Torment may make a reappearance. Development of the game began shortly after the acquisition of the Torment license, and various inExile staff will transition over to the Numenera team as production on Wasteland 2 winds down.[76]"


    Somehow I doubt this will get anywhere with another project from an actually studio is about to start. Wikipedia claims that inXile has the rights to the Planescape series but the source is penny arcade(aka probably bs)

    TJ_Hooker
  • State_LemmingState_Lemming Member Posts: 375
    I lost interest when it was revealed they would continue the story of TNO.

    DaelricChowCrevsDaakjackjack
  • MadhaxMadhax Member Posts: 1,416
    Words cannot describe how excited I am about this.

  • DaelricDaelric Member Posts: 266
    Yeah... I don't exactly have my computer from 14 years ago nevermind my save files so uh, yeah... I don't know who's bright idea that was to require that, cuz you know I'm not really in the mood to play through that again.

  • TJ_HookerTJ_Hooker Member Posts: 2,438
    Daelric said:

    Yeah... I don't exactly have my computer from 14 years ago nevermind my save files so uh, yeah... I don't know who's bright idea that was to require that, cuz you know I'm not really in the mood to play through that again.

    I imagine they require a PS:T install so that they can legally use PS:T/Infinity Engine resources, without having to acquire any rights. The same way BGtutu doesn't contain any game resources, but instead uses the resources from BG1/BG2 install.

    It is a little weird that having a savegame to start from is mandatory. I guess they figured the kind of people who would be playing PS: Damnation are the kind of people who loved PS:T and probably still have saved games, or would gladly complete another playthrough.

  • MadhaxMadhax Member Posts: 1,416
    I'm halfway done with my most recent playthrough =D This poses no problem to me.

  • mlnevesemlnevese Member, Moderator Posts: 9,692
    My PS savegames have been lost a long time ago... maybe I should take this is as a hint it's time to start playing again... :)

    jackjack
  • State_LemmingState_Lemming Member Posts: 375
    I was pretty content with PS:T's ending, TNO's well, torment, had basically ceased. The sequel will have to create a completely new set of problems, which is likely not to mesh well.

    [SPOILER]Also isn't there an ending where TNO ceases to exist? How do you follow that up?[/SPOILER]

  • mlnevesemlnevese Member, Moderator Posts: 9,692
    @State_Lemming You just stare at the nothingness in your screen. It' quite relaxing, actually. :)

  • ChowChow Member Posts: 1,192
    I'd much rather it was with some entirely different player character: as has been stated in this thread already, The Nameless One's story was ended pretty well, and there's really not much else to be said about him. Continuing his story would end up with the same pitfall so many poor sequels have dropped themselves in.

    But other than that, I'm excited to see more about Planescape, especially the areas Torment didn't show (upper planes, more of Outlands, inner planes, and so forth). One of my favorite settings ever.

  • TJ_HookerTJ_Hooker Member Posts: 2,438

    I was pretty content with PS:T's ending, TNO's well, torment, had basically ceased. The sequel will have to create a completely new set of problems, which is likely not to mesh well.

    Also isn't there an ending where TNO ceases to exist? How do you follow that up?
    Wait, really? Huh, maybe I need to do another playthrough, as I thought the game ended with
    TNO ending up in the lower planes to once again fight in the Blood War.
    I guess there's probably a few different outcomes though.

  • mlnevesemlnevese Member, Moderator Posts: 9,692
    @TJ_Hooker I remember reading once that the game has 3 possible endings...

    TJ_Hooker
  • State_LemmingState_Lemming Member Posts: 375
    TJ_Hooker said:

    I was pretty content with PS:T's ending, TNO's well, torment, had basically ceased. The sequel will have to create a completely new set of problems, which is likely not to mesh well.

    Also isn't there an ending where TNO ceases to exist? How do you follow that up?
    Wait, really? Huh, maybe I need to do another playthrough, as I thought the game ended with
    TNO ending up in the lower planes to once again fight in the Blood War.
    I guess there's probably a few different outcomes though.
    @TJ_Hooker @mlnevese is right, there are three, I have done two, I think there is a third "evil/practical TNO" one.

    I'm a sucker for the lower planes "good" ending, usually makes me teary. The cease to exist one I mentioned involves using the Blade of the Immortal which Coaxmetal gives you. They establish that is one of the few things that can actually do permanent harm to you, and you can use it on yourself at the end. I suspect the third ending has to do with beating your mortality in combat, but I have never had the heart to be evil in that game.


    TJ_Hooker
  • DrugarDrugar Member Posts: 1,566
    [SPOILER]With 23+ Charisma you can talk him into merging with you (will also require some Intelligence/Wisdom I believe). This will make you a godlike being with phenomonal power (since all your incarnations are now merged in you) but still a mortal way past his time, so you die, and end up in the blood war.
    With 23+ Wisdom you can will him out of existence, also killing yourself in the process, and you end up in the blood war.
    With Coaxmetal's Blade you can slit your own throat, killing yourself with a weapon made from your own essence, and you end up in the blood war.
    You can also fight him (and with a little Charisma/Intelligence check, resurrect all your allies before doing so) and defeat him, so you die and end up in the blood war.[/SPOILER]

    You notice a theme with these endings?


  • ChowChow Member Posts: 1,192
    Drugar said:

    You notice a theme with these endings?


    They intended to make them a little more varied and have an actual happy ending thrown in, but they ran out of time. A lot of things had to be cut from PS:T, which is a shame.

  • mlnevesemlnevese Member, Moderator Posts: 9,692
    @Drugar Why after reading your post I get the sudden feeling I know how Damnation will start? :)

  • ChowChow Member Posts: 1,192
    @mlnevese: If it's supposed to continue the Nameless One's story, there's not many ways it could start with.

    mlnevesejackjack
  • mlnevesemlnevese Member, Moderator Posts: 9,692
    It would be a nice touch if you start Damnation finding Morte... again.

  • DrugarDrugar Member Posts: 1,566
    edited February 2013
    Well...
    Technicly, he *came* from hell, as an ex-member of the Pillar of Skulls, it's possible he went back there.

    Though of course, who'd make him go?

    Edit:
    Also, in regards to the happier ending; I like the ending as it is now.
    It was said that the original Nameless One committed so great an evil, it would take several lifetimes to make up for, hence the immortality given by Ravel with amnesia as a side effect. Considering there's only been few kindhearted Nameless Ones (from what I gathered) he hasn't exactly tipped the scales back in his favor. And the acts you do in-game may be Good, Saintly even, but it's only over the course of maybe 2-3 months, not several lifetimes.
    The Nameless One belongs in Hell for the crimes he committed. And at the end, he realises that that is his punishment and accepts it. I find that a much more powerful ending than "you've been good for a short while, so now you get to recline in heaven, despite terrible deeds that almost damned the multiverse.

    Valshares
  • State_LemmingState_Lemming Member Posts: 375
    Chow said:

    They intended to make them a little more varied and have an actual happy ending thrown in, but they ran out of time. A lot of things had to be cut from PS:T, which is a shame.

    Wow, dodged a bullet there, that would've been completely antithetical to the game.

  • MadhaxMadhax Member Posts: 1,416
    edited February 2013
    @Drugar, regarding your second spoiler in your latest post:


    Sure, he accepts Hell and eternal sevice in the Blood War as his punishment. But isn't death another sort of immortality in Planescape? He's accepted his punishment, but he's still conscious, and is still a being with the potential for godlike levels of intelligence, wisdom, and power. There's plenty of room for a Good Nameless One to attempt to end the Blood War or at least lessen its impact on the mortal planes, or for an Evil Nameless One to profit from it.

  • ChowChow Member Posts: 1,192

    Wow, dodged a bullet there, that would've been completely antithetical to the game.

    Why? I think the game showed perfectly well that everyone can be redeemed.

    Remember Curst, and Trias? You'd have thought it would've been hopeless for both cases, for the city and the angel, but everybody deserves a second chance, and everyone can change. Remember how Ravel was changed just by meeting the protagonist the first time? See how different Dak'kon, Nordom, or Fall-From-Grace is from their typical racial archetypes?

    Belief can change the nature of a man. If those things, all of them basically soaked with an element of chaos, law, good, or evil, up to their very core, can change to something entirely different and flip their lives around... then why could you not earn your happy ending?

  • State_LemmingState_Lemming Member Posts: 375
    Chow said:

    Wow, dodged a bullet there, that would've been completely antithetical to the game.

    Why? I think the game showed perfectly well that everyone can be redeemed.

    Remember Curst, and Trias? You'd have thought it would've been hopeless for both cases, for the city and the angel, but everybody deserves a second chance, and everyone can change. Remember how Ravel was changed just by meeting the protagonist the first time? See how different Dak'kon, Nordom, or Fall-From-Grace is from their typical racial archetypes?

    Belief can change the nature of a man. If those things, all of them basically soaked with an element of chaos, law, good, or evil, up to their very core, can change to something entirely different and flip their lives around... then why could you not earn your happy ending?
    I'm not arguing against redemption, in fact the "good" ending covers that pretty well.

    My problem, and correct if I am forgetting something, is that there is not situation where TNO can come out this smelling like roses. His redemption comes primarily from the fact that he willingly takes back his mortality, killing him in the process since he has already lived far too long. I don't know of a way he could be redeemed while still retaining his immortality.

  • MadhaxMadhax Member Posts: 1,416

    Chow said:

    Wow, dodged a bullet there, that would've been completely antithetical to the game.

    Why? I think the game showed perfectly well that everyone can be redeemed.

    Remember Curst, and Trias? You'd have thought it would've been hopeless for both cases, for the city and the angel, but everybody deserves a second chance, and everyone can change. Remember how Ravel was changed just by meeting the protagonist the first time? See how different Dak'kon, Nordom, or Fall-From-Grace is from their typical racial archetypes?

    Belief can change the nature of a man. If those things, all of them basically soaked with an element of chaos, law, good, or evil, up to their very core, can change to something entirely different and flip their lives around... then why could you not earn your happy ending?
    I'm not arguing against redemption, in fact the "good" ending covers that pretty well.

    My problem, and correct if I am forgetting something, is that there is not situation where TNO can come out this smelling like roses. His redemption comes primarily from the fact that he willingly takes back his mortality, killing him in the process since he has already lived far too long. I don't know of a way he could be redeemed while still retaining his immortality.

    I'm not sure I agree. The way I see it, the only flaw in his original plan of immortality giving him time for penance was the flawed ritual that caused him to repeatedly lose his memories. If he could find a way to retain his immortality while preventing the memory loss as a good incarnation, wouldn't he then be able to lead a good life and make amends for his sins?


  • ChowChow Member Posts: 1,192

    I'm not arguing against redemption, in fact the "good" ending covers that pretty well.

    My problem, and correct if I am forgetting something, is that there is not situation where TNO can come out this smelling like roses. His redemption comes primarily from the fact that he willingly takes back his mortality, killing him in the process since he has already lived far too long. I don't know of a way he could be redeemed while still retaining his immortality.
    Well, I think the idea would be that if you were a really immaculately good guy in your playthrough, it would be enough to more or less write out the bad stuff done by many of your other incarnations. Or perhaps those incarnations didn't even entirely count, since they remembered nothing of their past and didn't always apparently even try to find out? It's also got this thing of nature versus nurture: if you can't remember anything of your past, then who are you?

    But the final incarnation, the player, is the one that finally gets to piece the puzzle together, figure out everything, and decide for his fate.

    Besides, we never really did learn what the first incarnation actually did, what was the terrible sin that he could never put past himself. We only really have his word on if it's legitimately irredeemable, or if he was exaggerating. I don't know.


    But mostly, I think the writers of the game were pretty awesome. Whatever the good ending they would have put into the game, I'm certain it would have fit in like a glove. It's difficult for us to say since we didn't see it, but that's what I think.

  • rexregrexreg Member Posts: 292
    @Madhax
    is the Bloodwar a bad thing?
    many upper-planar creatures would argue it is the best thing to happen to the multi-verse...it keeps the Lower-Planar nasties from forging an alliance against the Upper Planes

    TJ_Hooker
  • MadhaxMadhax Member Posts: 1,416
    @rexreg
    Pretty much all I know about the Blood War is from in-game dialogue, so you might be right.

    From what I've gathered though, apparently the Blood War spills over into "innocent" planes occasionally, and mortal souls are routinely captured to serve in the war. If TNO can find a way to limit the scope of the Blood War to just the demons vs. devils, that would be an act of such good (and likely with major personal cost) that redemption could be possible.

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