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Kitting the NPCs

NifftNifft Member Posts: 1,065
I've noticed that every Wizard NPC in the game has a kit already. This is excellent, it makes them more interesting, it makes them less redundant, and should be extended to the other NPCs.

Mostly this is intended to spice up unused NPCs (like the myriad non-Imoen thieves in the game). I personally like the idea that NPCs can do illegal things, so I'm going to come at this issue from that perspective. For example, Montaron would be perfect as a Fighter / Assassin, even though this would not be a legal choice for CHARNAME.


Ajantis is a Paladin of Helm, like Keldorn, so make him an Inquisitor for continuity.

Alora: don't know her very well, I always have a good Thief by the time I meet her. Any ideas to make her worth consideration? Bounty Hunters are pretty hot around level 6, but that doesn't seem to suit what little I know of her personality.

Branwen: Priest of Tempus, obviously, but what does that mean? I'd give her two dots in War Hammers (illegally) at the very least.

Coran: this guy wants to go hunting big game, so making him a Fighter / Bounty Hunter might make sense. His personality makes me think Fighter / Swashbuckler, though. Tough choice, particularly since he's already pretty darn good just as a Dex 20 F/T with 3 dots in Longbows.

Eldoth, who talks about how stupid everyone is -> Jester.

Faldorn's lousy ability scores make it look like she's already suffered the harsh rituals required to join the Avenger sect of Druids, and her personality sure seems to match the vengeance-driven archetype.

Garrick has been known to comment on life being glorious, so he's probably been raised on tales of heroics and such. Make him a Skald, and he'll be able to solidly contribute to combat in spite of his uninspiring ability scores.

Imoen's personality feels to me like a natural Swashbuckler, but leaving her a vanilla Thief so she can eventually dual-class to a specialist Wizard would be fine, too. (I know it's not currently possible, but I'm hopeful for the future.)

Jaheira is fine as-is. Druid/Fighter is a strong vanilla combo.

Kagain might work as a Berserker, but he's also fine as a vanilla Fighter. He's already pretty special because of his Con score.

Khalid ... I can't think of a good kit for this guy. Wizard Slayer, so you have an excuse to not give him any good loot? Kensai, so you have an excuse to send him naked against some basilisks? EDIT: Fighter / Mage ("look at his 15 Int"), suggested in this thread. I'm thinking Fighter / Diviner?

Kivan is a good fit for Archer or Stalker. I'm leaning towards Archer, since there is already Stalker in BG2. (As a side note, Archer is one of the few specialist classes that I don't mind doubling up in a party.)

Minsc is pretty great as-is, but I'd like him to get extra daily Rage uses somehow. Maybe make him a custom kit ("Rashemon Ranger") which just gives him Rages like a Barbarian as he levels up, and of course the kit is unavailable to CHARNAME.

Montaron, who talks like he's going to assassinate you and other NPCs -> Fighter / Assassin.

Safana is the third Rogue who might be a decent Bounty Hunter, but who I don't usually use long enough to gauge. EDIT: "Her backstory screams Swashbuckler", that also sounds good to me.

Shar-Teel has "Berserker" or "Barbarian" written all over her. (She's unfriendly so I can't get close enough to read which.) EDIT: Some people like to dual-class her to Thief, so Berserker seems better.

Skie: I have no idea, I never use her. EDIT: Some rumors indicate an upcoming Shadowdancer class might be added, and she's got the dancer angle covered.

Viconia needs very little, as she's already got plenty of things which make her special. Perhaps add the spells "Blindness" and "Invisibility 10 ft. radius" to her spell list, and give her a custom class name ("Priest of Shar").

Yeslick may be fine as-is. I haven't used him long enough to have a strong opinion.


Thoughts?

Post edited by Nifft on
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Comments

  • deltagodeltago Member Posts: 7,790
    Contract obligations prevented Overhaul from doing this, however, you can use shadow keeper to make most of this possible.

  • MathmickMathmick Member Posts: 326
    edited January 2013
    No. Most kits have disadvantages, so giving a kit to an NPC forces a player to change how they use that character where they would otherwise have options.

    For example, Minsc is a ranger. Some players may use him as a frontline damage dealer because of his strength, a composite bow user also due to the strength, a scout due to stealth etc.

    This happens especially with Thief Classes. Specialising in Traps (BH), Backstab (As) or combat (SwB) all restrict the character. Bounty Hunter and Assassin both lose skill points where much would have to go to traps/stealth to make use of the class, and Swashbuckler loses Backstab completely.

    Most kits fit a certain playstyle, so kitting NPCs almost forces the character into a certain playstyle. Even in BG2, only 6/17 characters were given kits (not incl. spec. Mages). Even new characters were given multi/dual (Aerie, Anomen), and 2 single-class (Mazzy, *GuyFromToB*).

  • NifftNifft Member Posts: 1,065
    Mathmick said:

    No. Most kits have disadvantages, so giving a kit to an NPC forces a player to change how they use that character where they would otherwise have options.

    (...)

    This happens especially with Thief Classes. Specialising in Traps (BH), Backstab (As) or combat (SwB) all restrict the character. Bounty Hunter and Assassin both lose skill points where much would have to go to traps/stealth to make use of the class, and Swashbuckler loses Backstab completely.

    You may have noticed that there are quite a few Thief NPCs in BG1.

    Specializing them is actually a way to make them less redundant, which means that they may actually see MORE use. This is one specific motivation behind this proposal.

    Your objection is that they'll become less generic if they are specialized.
    Yes.
    This is a very good thing.

    Quartz
  • NifftNifft Member Posts: 1,065
    deltago said:

    Contract obligations prevented Overhaul from doing this, however, you can use shadow keeper to make most of this possible.

    Yeah, or perhaps a mod, if SK never makes its way to the iPad. :)

  • agrisagris Member Posts: 571
    SK is a real pain in the ass to do this because you have to take into account their baseline (original class) saving throws, THAC0, etc and correct it for the new class. I hopehopehope level1npcs is updated to work on BGEE soon.

    QuartzShrimptoanwrath
  • KidCarnivalKidCarnival Member Posts: 3,747
    While I can certainly see some personality-kit matches (Montaron as assassin or Shar-Teel as barbarian/berzerker), I don't see the mages as having kits. They are all on equal terms by having a specialization, but it is very very far from actual mage kits (outside BG). Those kits and prestige classes are nothing like "get 1 extra spell, lock opposite school". By kitting other NPCs, the mages would look by far less specialized. Their differences aren't really THAT big, especially since they can still use wands to work around their forbidden school.

    Sidenote: "X shouldn't be kit Y because I like to play as Y" is not a valid point, ever.

  • QuartzQuartz Member Posts: 3,851
    edited January 2013
    Hah well, you're certainly a WHOLE lot closer to my opinions on these than most people ... I dig it. Obviously lol

    Ajantis - Inquisitor or else plain Paladin. I pretty much agree with you on this one.
    Alora - Prolly just a vanilla Thief. Which is fine anyway, she's a beast Thief as of BG:EE. 19 Dex + Halfling Saves + Ridiculous Rabbit Foot = Awesome. If only they were this nice to Skie.
    Branwen - Priest of Tempus like you said.
    Coran - Fighter/Thief or else, as you said, Fighter/Bounty Hunter which would be very fitting. It would be refreshing to see yet more illegal stuff from NPCs. Definitely not a Swashbuckler IMO.
    Deekin - Red Dragon Disciple.
    Eldoth - No flippin' clue. There are reasons for him to be a Jester, especially the alignment, but Blade would make sense looking at his stats. That said, Eldoth makes about as much sense as a bag of cats in that he has the second lowest Dexterity in the game and yet has a special ability oriented around the creation of arrows that only he can use. This damn guy makes no sense at all from the get-go.
    Faldorn - Agreed, Avenger because of her personality and her stats being godawful. Plus it fits, as she is the most capable Divine caster in the game ... Avenger is a casting-based kit, so it only makes sense.
    Garrick - Yup, Skald for sure.
    Imoen - Ehh. I personally like to pretend Imoen doesn't exist, as she was a last-second addition with ridiculously good stats who encourages noobs and powergamers to never, ever branch out and try other thieves. Umm that said, I'd say pure thief.
    Jaheira - Stays a Fighter/Druid.
    Kagain - Vanilla Fighter. He is WAAAAY too chill to be a Berserker, I'm sorry. He would sooner be a Wizard Slayer since he's a bitter old dwarf.
    Khalid - Many people actually suggest he should be a Fighter/Mage ... check his 15 Intelligence out. I wouldn't be against this. Otherwise, vanilla Fighter.
    Kivan - Stalker for sure. Archer he is NOT. Kivan's true ability lies in his versatility; fantastic with the bows but also great in melee (18/12 STR). Making him an Archer would be awful. Plus, Stalker fits his personality.
    Minsc - Barbarian. I know "in da tabletop game he came from, liek, he was a ranger!!111lol" but to be entirely honest, we are already talking about hypothetical, personal preferences and I don't care. He is the sorriest excuse for a Ranger ever. The number of people who truly use him as a proper ranger are few and far between ... those of you who actually do, I salute you.
    Montaron - Fighter/Thief or else Fighter/Assassin. One time I heard someone say he should just be an Assassin. Ironically, I felt the urge to stab said person.
    Quayle - Cleric/Illusionist this bro is already kitted like the Gnomish boss that he is.
    Safana - Her biography SCREAMS Swashbuckler.
    Shar-Teel - Definitely a Barbarian. I can, of course, sympathize with arguments for Berserker ... but she seems like almost an Amazonian woman, so... Also, confession: her facepaint is awesome.
    Skie - Something. I have no idea what, but SOMETHING to make her stand out and above Imoen. Look at her stats. Now at Imoen's. Now know that Imoen wasn't even going to be a permanent NPC, just a fighter guard in Candlekeep ... now realize how hard Skie got axed by Imoen. Very sad.
    EDIT: Ohmigosh the upcoming Shadowdancer kit would be effing perfect for her since she's supposedly a ballet dancer. O_O;
    Tiax - Lololol I guess Priest of Cyric/Thief ehh?
    Viconia - Priest of Shar. duhh
    Yeslick - Fighter/Priest of Clangeddin?

    Eudaemoniumtoanwrath
  • KidCarnivalKidCarnival Member Posts: 3,747
    With a dancer background, Skie should actually be an illegal bard-thief. If there is one thing I support, it's illegal NPC classes, if they make sense or not. :)

    Quartz
  • DeucetipherDeucetipher Member Posts: 521
    I'll note that adding a kit to thief multiclasses seems to do away with the reduced thieving skills penalties of the assassin and bounty hunter kits.

    Quartz
  • ljboljbo Member Posts: 177
    Nifft said:

    I've noticed that every Wizard NPC in the game has a kit already.
    Thoughts?

    Neera (Wild Mage) and Baeroth (Sorcerer), indeed. But that's it: each and every wizard from BG1 is a Mage.

  • EudaemoniumEudaemonium Member Posts: 3,199
    Eldoth should be a special Charlatan kit, really. I wish someone would mod one together. I have no idea how they'd make it, though.

    I always thought it was sad that Clerics only had 3 random kits. I'd have liked a bunch more, similar to the Divine Remix mod. It'd also have been awesome if the original ones had been named things like 'Stormlord of Talos', 'Watcher of Helm' and 'Morninglord of Lathander' instead of the simple 'Priest of...'

    I guess that's why mods exist, though!

    Otherwise, I pretty-much agree with @Quartz. Especially about Kagain being way too chilled to be a Berserker.

    KidCarnivalQuartz
  • UnknownQuantityUnknownQuantity Member Posts: 242
    Kivan should probably be an archer IMO. Hes an elf and elves are often archers. This is just my image of him though.

    I'm not a big fan of giving kits to multi class characters. They are already powerful enough.

    Imoen doesn't strike me as a swashbuckler. She has a high charisma, but listening to the comments she makes she sounds more like a a little kid. She doesn't sound suave like say Coran or Isabella for those who like Dragon Age 2. She fits well as a pure thief.

    I like most of the pure classes except for Ranger. Ranger is better represented by it's kits IMO.

    The inquisitor just seems like garbage to me. I like the kit and Keldorn a lot and they are powerful, but I don't think an inquisitor is a paladin. They basically have zero of the Paladin original abilities. I think pure Paladin is the best way to go for Adjantis or Cavalier.

  • EudaemoniumEudaemonium Member Posts: 3,199

    Isabella for those who like Dragon Age 2.

    I think that's me, and about 6 others.

    Kaigen
  • LemernisLemernis Member, Moderator Posts: 4,302
    edited January 2013
    When the Level 1 NPCs mod is eventually refitted for BG:EE you'll be able to change NPCs to your heart's delight in EE. You can use that mod now for BGT and Tutu, btw.

    You can also do this now in EE via Shadowkeeper, although I have no idea what will happen using SK to change NPC classes/kits in BG:EE. I.e., try it at your own risk. Here's a tutorial thread on how to use Shadowkeeper for BG:EE:

    http://forum.baldursgate.com/discussion/7205/getting-shadowkeeper-to-work-with-bgee#p1

  • NifftNifft Member Posts: 1,065
    Lemernis said:

    When the Level 1 NPCs mod is eventually refitted for BG:EE you'll be able to change NPCs to your heart's delight in EE. You can use that mod now for BGT and Tutu, btw.

    That does look nicer than what Sword Coast Stratagems gave me.

    I have absolutely no idea how a WeiDU mod with that much text-typing would install on an iPad, though.

  • AstafasAstafas Member Posts: 448
    Montaron can't be a Fighter/Assassin. Multiclasses don't get to specialize as far as I know...

  • NifftNifft Member Posts: 1,065
    Astafas said:

    Montaron can't be a Fighter/Assassin. Multiclasses don't get to specialize as far as I know...

    Multi-class gnome Mages all have a kit (Illusionist).

    Fighter/Assassin is as illegal as an elven Fighter/Illusionist, but in my humble opinion it's such a good fit for Montaron to be a Fighter/Assassin that it should be done for him anyway, even if CHARNAME can't do it.

    QuartzEudaemoniumKidCarnival
  • DazzuDazzu Member Posts: 946
    Personally, I see things a little differently.

    Ajantis: A headstrong paladin who rushes into the fray has the makings of a Cavalier... which has always been a weird idea for a kit because my horse is amazingly not there! Inquisitor could work... but when mods add him to BG2 (despite him catching a case of the dead) he'd overlap and possibly outclass his mentor.

    Alora: If there's ever a Burglar kit, it'd fit her really well! Otherwise... Swashbuckler... eh?

    Branwen: Wait for the Divine Remix. Nuff said here.

    Coran: I'd say he's fine as is.

    Dynaheir: A sorceress of a witch I'd say.

    Eldoth: His archery makes Skald seem worth lobbing poison arrows. Otherwise, a Charlatan style bard kit.

    Faldorn: Avenger, no doubt.

    Garrick: What a buffoon, a nincompoop, a sillyhead! Clearly his music is confusing and baffling like any Jester.

    Imoen: There is a mod for BG2 that adds the option to give Imoen and Nalia the adventurer kit and a specialist mage (both at the same time.) I personally do not change Imoen, but Nalia gets the benefit of both additions.

    Kagain: Can't see him with any kits really.

    Khalid: A Fighter/Mage. For all who say stutter, you forget that subvocalized spellcasting does exist!

    Kivan: Archer works quite well.

    Minsc: Minsc is Minsc is Minsc! He's like his own kit.

    Montaron: Sleep lightly, lest a Barbarian/Assassin kill ye... or Fighter/Assassin works fine too.

    Safana: Bounty Hunter or Assassin could both work here.

    Skie: Uh.... Swashbuckler? More than anyone she needs a kit as she's so obscure.

    Tiax: Tiax rules with Devine Remix of Cyric afoot, and still stays a Thief.

    Viconia: Divine Remixable.



    The whole no changing current content was the worst rule ever!

  • PeccaPecca Member Posts: 2,004
    I use Near Infinity to give kits and I think it's better than use ShadowKeeper. For me anyway.

    Giving kits to NPCs by my own choice is the best thing of BG:EE for me (I never liked BGT), but it should (and will) definitely remain everyone's choice.

    So my current party is:
    Me (fighter/thief)
    Ajantis (cavalier - kinda boring) - kicked out for Minsc (barbarian ranger custom kit)
    Faldorn (avenger - awesome! - definitely recommend this one)
    Kivan (archer - never puts that composite bow down, NEVER)
    Garrick (jester - just for fun)
    Dynaheir (sorcerer - as awesome as all sorcerers are)

    BTW: I'm probably not the first one who tried to combine Minsc's berserker ability with barbarian rage. That’s some really badass berserkering:)

  • NifftNifft Member Posts: 1,065
    Quartz said:

    Hah well, you're certainly a WHOLE lot closer to my opinions on these than most people ... I dig it. Obviously lol

    Alora - Prolly just a vanilla Thief. Which is fine anyway, she's a beast Thief as of BG:EE. 19 Dex + Halfling Saves + Ridiculous Rabbit Foot = Awesome. If only they were this nice to Skie.

    Sold.
    Quartz said:

    Deekin - Red Dragon Disciple.

    DEEKIN IS IN BGEE?!
    Quartz said:

    Eldoth - No flippin' clue. There are reasons for him to be a Jester, especially the alignment, but Blade would make sense looking at his stats. That said, Eldoth makes about as much sense as a bag of cats in that he has the second lowest Dexterity in the game and yet has a special ability oriented around the creation of arrows that only he can use. This damn guy makes no sense at all from the get-go.

    It depends on the perspective you take on character class. With his personality, he would totally go for the Jester class, since it makes other people act like idiots while he watches. On the other hand, Neera's story is evidence that characters don't get to pick their class, unless she's just a special case.
    Quartz said:

    Kagain - Vanilla Fighter. He is WAAAAY too chill to be a Berserker, I'm sorry. He would sooner be a Wizard Slayer since he's a bitter old dwarf.

    Sold.
    Quartz said:

    Khalid - Many people actually suggest he should be a Fighter/Mage ... check his 15 Intelligence out. I wouldn't be against this. Otherwise, vanilla Fighter.

    That is a really good idea.
    Quartz said:

    Kivan - Stalker for sure. Archer he is NOT. Kivan's true ability lies in his versatility; fantastic with the bows but also great in melee (18/12 STR). Making him an Archer would be awful. Plus, Stalker fits his personality.

    Hear me out on the Archer front. First off, his 18 Str is NOT wasted on a bow. Composite longbows demand a minimum 18 Strength. With one dot in Halberds, one dot in Two-Handed Weapon Style, and two dots (and all future dots) in Longbows, he's perfectly set up to wield the Chelsea Crusher Halberd, which sets your attacks to 1 (thereby throwing away the best benefit of Specialization, the +1/2 attack).
    Quartz said:

    Minsc - Barbarian. I know "in da tabletop game he came from, liek, he was a ranger!!111lol" but to be entirely honest, we are already talking about hypothetical, personal preferences and I don't care. He is the sorriest excuse for a Ranger ever. The number of people who truly use him as a proper ranger are few and far between ... those of you who actually do, I salute you.

    HAMSTERS AND RANGERS EVERYWHERE, REJOICE!
    I'm happy with Minsc as a ridiculous Ranger. I'm so happy with him as-is, I never even install the mod which moves Boo out of his quick item slot -- IMHO losing one quick item slot is fine compensation for his bonus Berserk ability. The only thing I wish would change about him is that I wish he'd get more uses of Berserk per day. Since it's so limited in use, I often forget to use it, and that sucks.

    As far as using him like a real Ranger, I do sometimes put him in magical studded leather and have him scout ahead, even sneak up behind an enemy archer or spellcaster before combat starts. He can't backstab, but his frontstab works just fine.
    Quartz said:

    Safana - Her biography SCREAMS Swashbuckler.

    True.
    Quartz said:

    Shar-Teel - Definitely a Barbarian. I can, of course, sympathize with arguments for Berserker ... but she seems like almost an Amazonian woman, so... Also, confession: her facepaint is awesome.

    Some people like to dual-class her over to Thief, so IMHO Berserker is better. Personally I don't use her much since I tend to play non-evil.
    Quartz said:

    Skie - Something. I have no idea what, but SOMETHING to make her stand out and above Imoen. Look at her stats. Now at Imoen's. Now know that Imoen wasn't even going to be a permanent NPC, just a fighter guard in Candlekeep ... now realize how hard Skie got axed by Imoen. Very sad.
    EDIT: Ohmigosh the upcoming Shadowdancer kit would be effing perfect for her since she's supposedly a ballet dancer. O_O;

    If that's going to be a thing, it could totally save her. (From irrelevance. Not from Eldoth. Nothing can save her from Eldoth.)
    Quartz said:

    Tiax - Lololol I guess Priest of Cyric/Thief ehh?

    Tiax is as Tiax does. He's perfect as-is IMHO: another ridiculous character who is greatly entertaining, even if he's not particularly optimal.

    - - -
    Dazzu said:

    Ajantis: A headstrong paladin who rushes into the fray has the makings of a Cavalier... which has always been a weird idea for a kit because my horse is amazingly not there! Inquisitor could work... but when mods add him to BG2 (despite him catching a case of the dead) he'd overlap and possibly outclass his mentor.

    It is nearly impossible to out-class Keldorn, because Keldorn oozes class. Keldorn is too classy to have pores, but if somehow he were blessed with pores and got a zit, whoever popped it would be crowned the King of England. That's the kind of class Keldorn oozes.

    Keldorn would be delighted to be in a party with a young Inquisitor of Helm, even if the other guy's stats were better across the board. In fact I'd probably keep both of them just to hear Keldorn give life lessons to Ajantis. Goddamn it, now I really want this to happen.
    Dazzu said:

    Coran: I'd say he's fine as is.

    Yeah, he's cool.
    Dazzu said:

    Eldoth: His archery makes Skald seem worth lobbing poison arrows. Otherwise, a Charlatan style bard kit.

    Thing is, I can't see him using his bardic talents to ever help other people. IMHO he's totally the kind of guy to abuse others for his own entertainment.
    Dazzu said:

    Garrick: What a buffoon, a nincompoop, a sillyhead! Clearly his music is confusing and baffling like any Jester.

    He is a doofus, but IMHO he would do his best to help, even if his best doesn't come with particularly good ability scores. Jester might suit his aptitudes, but it's contrary to how I see his personality.
    Dazzu said:

    Imoen: There is a mod for BG2 that adds the option to give Imoen and Nalia the adventurer kit and a specialist mage (both at the same time.) I personally do not change Imoen, but Nalia gets the benefit of both additions.

    I hate the Adventurer kit. It's blatant power-gaming, since their skill point benefit maxes out just around the time you'd want to dual-class anyway.
    Dazzu said:

    Kagain: Can't see him with any kits really.

    Sold.
    Dazzu said:

    Khalid: A Fighter/Mage. For all who say stutter, you forget that subvocalized spellcasting does exist!

    I am totally going to try this out.
    Dazzu said:

    Montaron: Sleep lightly, lest a Barbarian/Assassin kill ye... or Fighter/Assassin works fine too.

    Can't have two kits in the current codebase.
    Dazzu said:

    Safana: Bounty Hunter or Assassin could both work here.

    Assassin? Huh, totally not what I'd expect. Could you explain your choice here?

    Thanks, -- N

    KidCarnivalQuartz
  • KidCarnivalKidCarnival Member Posts: 3,747
    I'm not seeing the Assassin in Safana either. Swashbuckler is described as a cunning person with high charisma, which is exactly what Safana is from both stats and personality.

    LemernisQuartz
  • DazzuDazzu Member Posts: 946
    Didn't Safana seduce and murder a Pirate captain? I could have sworn she seems like the femme fatale type.

    Quartz
  • KidCarnivalKidCarnival Member Posts: 3,747
    How would she seduce anyone without charisma and sweet talking?

    Lemernis
  • DazzuDazzu Member Posts: 946
    Ask Coran, he seems smitten with her.

    Quartz
  • KidCarnivalKidCarnival Member Posts: 3,747
    Exactly. A femme fatale is more swashbuckler than assassin - assassins are stealthy and their victims never know what hit them. First seducing the victim is a different strategy - charming them and winning their trust to make them feel safe. That's what Safana does. Montaron is a typical assassin-personality to me and he's very very different from her.

    Quartz
  • AstafasAstafas Member Posts: 448
    Nifft said:

    Astafas said:

    Montaron can't be a Fighter/Assassin. Multiclasses don't get to specialize as far as I know...

    Multi-class gnome Mages all have a kit (Illusionist).

    Fighter/Assassin is as illegal as an elven Fighter/Illusionist, but in my humble opinion it's such a good fit for Montaron to be a Fighter/Assassin that it should be done for him anyway, even if CHARNAME can't do it.
    Why not simply make him an Assassin?

  • DazzuDazzu Member Posts: 946
    Astafas said:

    Nifft said:

    Astafas said:

    Montaron can't be a Fighter/Assassin. Multiclasses don't get to specialize as far as I know...

    Multi-class gnome Mages all have a kit (Illusionist).

    Fighter/Assassin is as illegal as an elven Fighter/Illusionist, but in my humble opinion it's such a good fit for Montaron to be a Fighter/Assassin that it should be done for him anyway, even if CHARNAME can't do it.
    Why not simply make him an Assassin?
    Yet we have an elven Cleric/Mage... Elves cannot be Cleric/Mages.

  • NifftNifft Member Posts: 1,065
    Astafas said:

    Nifft said:

    Fighter/Assassin is as illegal as an elven Fighter/Illusionist, but in my humble opinion it's such a good fit for Montaron to be a Fighter/Assassin that it should be done for him anyway, even if CHARNAME can't do it.

    Why not simply make him an Assassin?
    Personality.

    He shouts too much to be an exclusive back-stabber.

  • QuartzQuartz Member Posts: 3,851
    Astafas said:

    Nifft said:

    Astafas said:

    Montaron can't be a Fighter/Assassin. Multiclasses don't get to specialize as far as I know...

    Multi-class gnome Mages all have a kit (Illusionist).

    Fighter/Assassin is as illegal as an elven Fighter/Illusionist, but in my humble opinion it's such a good fit for Montaron to be a Fighter/Assassin that it should be done for him anyway, even if CHARNAME can't do it.
    Why not simply make him an Assassin?
    Hahaha ... who called it:
    Quartz said:

    Montaron - Fighter/Thief or else Fighter/Assassin. One time I heard someone say he should just be an Assassin. Ironically, I felt the urge to stab said person.

    There is a HUGE difference in ability between a Fighter/Thief and an Assassin. Huuuuge. That would be the worst change in the world.
    Nifft said:

    DEEKIN IS IN BGEE?!

    Nope, I pretty much put that there to screw with people. :DDDDD They're adding Red Dragon Disciple at some point here though.
    Nifft said:

    Hear me out on the Archer front. First off, his 18 Str is NOT wasted on a bow. Composite longbows demand a minimum 18 Strength. With one dot in Halberds, one dot in Two-Handed Weapon Style, and two dots (and all future dots) in Longbows, he's perfectly set up to wield the Chelsea Crusher Halberd, which sets your attacks to 1 (thereby throwing away the best benefit of Specialization, the +1/2 attack).

    Even though that would be decent, I still don't like it, at all, ever.
    Nifft said:

    Some people like to dual-class her over to Thief, so IMHO Berserker is better. Personally I don't use her much since I tend to play non-evil.

    Ahh, oh course, the dual-class, right. Fair 'nuff. Berserker it is.
    Nifft said:

    I hate the Adventurer kit. It's blatant power-gaming, since their skill point benefit maxes out just around the time you'd want to dual-class anyway.

    Ahaha, yeaaahhh... all bad.

  • NifftNifft Member Posts: 1,065
    edited January 2013
    I added the collected wisdom of this thread to the first post.

    - - -
    Quartz said:

    There is a HUGE difference in ability between a Fighter/Thief and an Assassin. Huuuuge. That would be the worst change in the world.

    Agree. Montaron is a front-line face-stabber as well as a sneaky back-stabber. He needs to be a Fighter multi-class in order to pull that off well.
    Quartz said:

    Nope, I pretty much put that there to screw with people. :DDDDD They're adding Red Dragon Disciple at some point here though.

    They're adding a Prestige class to a game which doesn't have 3.x multi-classing? That's an odd decision.
    Quartz said:

    Even though that would be decent, I still don't like it, at all, ever.

    You are entitled to your irrational opinion. ;-) Archer still feels like the best fit for Kivan to me.

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