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Is Neverwinter nights 2 much like BG?

124

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  • ArchaosArchaos Member Posts: 1,419
    edited February 2013
    Teflon said:

    The botton line : NWN2 is different from BG.
    Not just 2d and 3d but contents itself too.
    For me BG seems more paper and pen dice rolling classic dungeons and dragons game.
    If you've played fallout 1 and 3 then you can see what I am trying to say, I suppose.

    NwN1+2 are indeed different from BG. It's like comparing apples to oranges, like I said above.

    BG is a hardcore and low-magic/low-level campaign, where it focuses on an non-linear story.
    NwN2 is a bunch of tools with four different campaigns that are meant to be samples and long, well-made demos about what you can do, in modules or persistent worlds with the toolset or as a DM.

    That's why the campaigns are easy and you get tons of magic items, xp and you can do extensive crafting. So you get a big taste of what's available and what's possible.

    BG specialized in it's campaign and it excelled. NwN2 specialized in the modding and creating part and it excelled there, instead.

    Post edited by Archaos on
    Teflon
  • MalachyMalachy Member Posts: 13
    Different games but it's well worth a look.

    I still hold Mask of the Betrayer (NWN2 expansion) as one of my greatest RPG experiences in gaming over the years.

    The main campaign was a little lackluster much like the first NWN especially if your comparing it to BG series but it has it's moments (meetings the Dragons and Ammon Jerro Haven)

  • ArchaosArchaos Member Posts: 1,419
    edited February 2013
    Malachy said:


    The main campaign was a little lackluster much like the first NWN especially if your comparing it to BG series but it has it's moments (meetings the Dragons and Ammon Jerro Haven)

    Well, it's like comparing the BG1 storytelling to Planescape Torment or saying that the Icewind Dale games have crap story.
    Different games focusing on different things. It's their fault if they get disappointed or are misinformed.

    Teflon
  • scriverscriver Member Posts: 1,824
    @Archaos -
    Archaos said:

    BG is a hardcore and low-magic/low-level campaign, where it focuses on an non-linear story.

    I agree that they're different games to some degree, but Baldur's Gate certainly isn't hardcore and it has an extremely linear story. Nonlinear world? Sure, I agree, but not the story.

  • ArchaosArchaos Member Posts: 1,419
    edited February 2013
    @scriver
    What I meant is that you are not rail-roaded in the game. You can do stuff as you want and ignore the main story for much of the game. You don't have to go from point A to point B. Maybe I should have said campaign or world, anyway.

    And yes, BG is not extremely hardcore but what's your definition of hardcore? Being identical to PnP? Having thirst and food needs? BG is relatively hardcore compared to NwN2 and many similar RPGs.

    -Your weapons can break.
    -There's fatigue.
    -If your main character dies, it's game over.
    -Your companions can be chunked and die permanently (unless you reload)
    Etc, etc.

    I think hardcore has to do with the difficulty and challenge. A game where you have to keep your own notes and you need a strategy guide to even figure out where you go since there's no map or journal (I'm looking at you, old Ultima games), is not hardcore. It's badly designed.

  • scriverscriver Member Posts: 1,824
    I'm pretty certain those are the only ways BG is more "hardcore" than NwN, and weapons breaking only counts as half a point since the only reason that's implemented is because it's a plot point - hence why they got rid of it in BG2. No, to me, BG is pretty much the definition of a casual, streamlined action-RPG. It basically cemented the genre of action-RPGs that has completely overtaken the mainstream Western market today.

  • ArchaosArchaos Member Posts: 1,419
    edited February 2013
    @scriver
    .....Huh?
    You still didn't tell me what you consider a hardcore RPG. Something like Temple of Elemental Evil which is fully turn-based and some spells cost gold (spell components) to cast? Or the first two Fallout games?

    By the way, just because it's not fully turn-based, doesn't mean it's an action-RPG.
    Diablo, Mass Effect, Jade Empire, Skyrim, Dark Souls, The Witcher are action-RPGs.
    And neither Dragon Age is an action-RPG, though Dragon Age 2 might be.

    The Infinity Engine games have rounds, turns and combat is automated if you just click once on the enemy.
    The above games I mentioned, need you to click on the enemy to attack EACH time, that defines an action-RPG.

  • NWN_babaYagaNWN_babaYaga Member Posts: 732
    I´m sure Archaos and I had a very very bad relationship back then when NWN2 came out and the hardcore nwn1 guys stormed in and told you the hard truth :D

  • ArchaosArchaos Member Posts: 1,419
    @NWN_babaYaga
    Eh? O.o Not sure I'm following you. Bad relationship? What truth?

    By the way, when NwN2 came out, I was in the opposite camp, playing NwN1 all the time. Campaigns and modules.

    Then I discovered NwN2, when it matured and love it, despite it's flaws.

  • triclops41triclops41 Member Posts: 202
    I loved NWN2, and played the hell out of it. I concur that the spirit eater part of Mask of the Betrayer sucked. I edited the hunger rate though, and that removed my one obstacle from enjoying a brilliant expansion to a very good game. I actually liked all the expansions to the game, including storm of zehir.
    the crafting system of NWN2 is something I really enjoyed as well.
    I know some here will disagree, but I see NWN2 as a true "spiritual successor" to BG, albeit with more fun game mechanics (after patching) and only slightly inferior story.

    Archaos
  • ArchaosArchaos Member Posts: 1,419
    edited February 2013
    @triclops41
    I had the same thoughts. It's ironic how NwN2 is more the spiritual successor to BG, than Dragon Age Origins was.

    I'm repeating myself, I think, but I believe that the campaigns were tributes or spiritual successors to the Infinity Engine games.
    -The OC was to BG1+2. Standard RPG fare, full party control, various companions, plus a stronghold.
    -Mask of the Betrayer was to Planescape: Torment for obvious reasons. Fewer but deeper companions.
    -Storm of Zehir was to Icewind Dale. Create your party from scratch and adventure freely.

    Illustair
  • AHFAHF Member Posts: 1,376
    Can I ask for a very, very basic bit of help?

    I have started the original campaign in NWN2. I am using the zoomed out "Character Mode" camera but am having a very difficult time moving with the keys (turning is a pain) and the mouse doesn't do anything when I double-click. In the other camera modes, double clicking selects a spot to which the characters moves but in "Character Mode" it doesn't do anything. In the other modes, I can't see much of what is going on so simply changing camera modes seems less than ideal. Is there a better way to move? Thanks!

  • State_LemmingState_Lemming Member Posts: 375
    @AHF Welcome to Camera Hell. You'll get the hang of maneuvering but it is going to be a hindrance the whole game.

    Teflon
  • AHFAHF Member Posts: 1,376
    @State_Lemming - Are you supposed to be able to move with the mouse in Character Mode?

  • State_LemmingState_Lemming Member Posts: 375
    I can't really recall, but my gut tells me character mode is controlled with the whatever key bindings you have to turn the camera.

    I really don't understand how they messed up the camera so bad.

  • FrostyFrosty Member Posts: 190
    NwN2 is not bad but does not compare at all to BG or dragon age. Mask of the betrayer was the best campane for the game but I found the story confusing at the end when suddly I swich side with no warnning.

  • FinneousPJFinneousPJ Member Posts: 6,456
    I loved NWN2, it's great.

    Archaos
  • reedmilfamreedmilfam Member Posts: 2,808
    @AHF - I found that reducing the mouse sensitivity makes it a lot easier to manage NWN2's camera craziness.

  • AHFAHF Member Posts: 1,376
    Is there any way to physically get the character to move other than using the qawsed keys? I would like to be able to move the character with the mouse. I can do this on 2 of the character modes but it does nothing to double click a spot with the "Character Mode" and I can't believe this is normal.

    Turning with the q and e keys is incredibly slow and so I can't believe this is how the character is intended to move and I am sure I am missing something really basic.

  • AHFAHF Member Posts: 1,376
    If there is a way to get the character to move forward with the w key in the direction that the camera is facing that would be enough but I can't get it to do this either. Help!

  • ArchaosArchaos Member Posts: 1,419
    edited March 2013
    @AHF
    Use Exploration Mode to move around most of the time.
    Strategy Mode to make it more like the Infinity Engine games and position them as you wish in battle.
    Character Mode to look at your character from different angles.

    That's how I use them.
    Just click where you want to go in the distance in Exploration Mode and move around. No need to make things complicated.

    Also there's a glitch with the WASD movement. If you hit a place where it's not very smooth, your character will most likely be teleported back to his previous position.
    NwN1 had something similar I think. It's best to just use the mouse with those games. Use the keys for the Quickslots.

    By the way, if you hit F, the Quickcast interface comes up and you can click any spell you have memorized.
    Wish the Infinity Engine games and NwN1 had something like that. I can't live without it.

  • AHFAHF Member Posts: 1,376
    Thanks, @Archaos. I thought I remembered being able to double click to move in Character Mode when I saw NWN2 a few years ago. Character Mode is useless without this ability.

  • AHFAHF Member Posts: 1,376
    Good news is that I "discovered" there are separate option menus for each camera mode and the Character Mode has the ability to move by clicking the mouse just by checking a box. I'm not sure why this wasn't on by default but it solved my problem with the Character Mode camera. Soooo much better than the WASD movement.

  • MarkalethMarkaleth Member Posts: 9
    Neverwinter Nights 2 is very different from BG, in regards to rules used, engine used party composition and so forth. NWN 2 gives way to a more elaborate character creation arch through use of perks, skills, new classes, races, prestige classes and so forth.
    On a side note, i found the version i had to be quite buggy at times with showstoppers and all other nonsense, but that's probably been taken care of in later iterations and patches.

    In terms of story however i found NWN 2 to be wonting at times (this is just my personal point of view mind you), having played the first NWN and it's expansions.

    The "Mask of the Betrayer" expansion, however, i found to be a delight. The story was far more engaging for me, the fights much more challenging and the characters alot more interesting.

    If you're a RPG fan, NWN 2 is definitely worth a look to broaden your perspectives.

  • elminsterelminster Member, Developer Posts: 15,982
    edited May 2014
    I'm necroing this thread (mostly because making a new thread seems unnecessary).

    Anyways I've been making my way through NWN2's OC. Wow its buggy. Seems kind of a shame too because it had interesting characters like Khelgar but the buggy gameplay just takes away from that. I just had one battle where for absolutely no reason everything on my system was reduced to a crawl. There weren't a lot of enemies either (or any other reason for it). In another instance talking to one non-joinable npc sent my character halfway across the map and triggered a cutscene (that had nothing to do with that NPC). Its a shame they gave up on supporting it when it is still like this.

    Also it obviously has its highs and lows when it comes to its storyline. Its pretty boring until after you go through the series of quests around the Old Owl Well.

    The one thing I do like about it is how your alignment can change. I started out as a neutral good cleric of Silvanus, but I kept doing too many lawful things so I ended up being forced to change my god (due to becoming lawful good). I went with Shiallia instead :)

  • FinneousPJFinneousPJ Member Posts: 6,456
    @elminster Are you fully patched? I don't remember it being that bad. The NWN games are a well of infinite awesome if you give them (and custom content) a chance, though.

  • elminsterelminster Member, Developer Posts: 15,982
    edited May 2014
    Yep I'm fully patched (I'm playing the GoG.com version so it comes fully patched).

  • ArchaosArchaos Member Posts: 1,419
    edited May 2014
    The OCs (except Mask of the Betrayer) are an afterthought compared to what NwN2 really offers.

    -Toolset
    -Countless quality modules that are better than the OC
    -Persistent Worlds

    You play the OCs either to get introduced to the game or after you're bored after the various modules and persistent worlds.

    I haven't even finished the OCs yet (except Storm of Zehir) because I've been too busy for around two years now playing on the various PWs.

    Was it mentioned before that Baldur's Gate 1 was fully remade for NwN2? Search for Baldur's Gate Reloaded. We're now waiting for the third big patch.

    jackjack
  • elminsterelminster Member, Developer Posts: 15,982
    edited May 2014
    The one thing I have noticed is how much effort they put into providing descriptions for people or objects. Yes there are generic descriptions, but if you use "examine" there are actually a lot of specifically written descriptions available.

    jackjackbadbromance
  • DreadnaughtDreadnaught Member Posts: 92
    edited May 2014
    Ehhhhhh I'm going to say no. The 1st neverwinter was good the second was a bit disappointing and if they make another one I hope they will construct a game that matches the Forgotten realms genres.

    jackjack
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