Best Power Player Charname (minor spoilers!)

griever0483

Which do you think is the best power player charname, his/her equipment, stats and proficiencies?

My idea:

Human
Berseker 7 / Druid 9

Armor: Full Plate Mail
First Weapon: IcingDeath +3
Secondary Weapon / Shield: Rashad's Talon +2
Gauntlets: Legacy of the Masters
Helm: Helm of Balduran
Amulet: Amulet os Spell Warding
Rings: The Guard's Ring +2 / Honorary Ring of Sune
Cloack: Cloack of Balduran
Boots: The Paws of the Cheetah
Belt: Golden Girdle of Urnst

Strenght:19
Dexterity:19
Costitution:19
Intelligence: xxx (I have 5)
Wisdom: 21
Charisma: 19

5 pips in Scimitars and 2 pips in Two Weapon Style

Wanderon

Best char name for a power player?

Suzie Sweetcheeks?

griever0483

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[Deleted User]

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Sidemi

BG:EE / whole saga?
Level cap on / off?

Kensage with katanas is quite popular, but i don't like him that much.
Kensai / thief is backstabbing machine with max. damage output.
Sorcerer is goddamn powerful.
Fighter/Clerik can solo game on insane difficulty.

[Deleted User]

The user and all related content has been deleted.

griever0483

Sidemi said:

BG:EE / whole saga?
Level cap on / off?

BG EE with level cap on


Kensage with katanas is quite popular, but i don't like him that much.

I think Kensage is powerful... but too weak for too much time: A kensai is weak, and so a mage... Only after recovering lost levels charname becomes strong...IMHO

Erg

Sidemi said:

Sorcerer is goddamn powerful.

Not in BGEE with the level cap on imho, because a Sorcerer can only cast level 5th spells from scrolls. Sorcerers are good as secondary arcane caster, but they aren't an overpowered build.

Erg

griever0483 said:

Sidemi said:

BG:EE / whole saga?
Level cap on / off?

BG EE with level cap on


Kensage with katanas is quite popular, but i don't like him that much.
Kensai / thief is backstabbing machine with max. damage output.
Sorcerer is goddamn powerful.
Fighter/Clerik can solo game on insane difficulty.

I think Kensage is powerful... but too weak for too much time: Kensai is weak, and so a mage... Only after recovering lost levels charname is strong...IMHO

Kensai/Mage is indeed powerful, but the build only really shines in BG2. In BG1 a Berserker/Druid is imho better.

griever0483

Erg said:

griever0483 said:

Sidemi said:

BG:EE / whole saga?
Level cap on / off?

BG EE with level cap on


Kensage with katanas is quite popular, but i don't like him that much.
Kensai / thief is backstabbing machine with max. damage output.
Sorcerer is goddamn powerful.
Fighter/Clerik can solo game on insane difficulty.

I think Kensage is powerful... but too weak for too much time: Kensai is weak, and so a mage... Only after recovering lost levels charname is strong...IMHO

Kensai/Mage is indeed powerful, but the build only really shines in BG2. In BG1 a Berserker/Druid is imho better.

I'm the only one thinking a berseker (or pure fighter) / mage is a stronger character than a kensage in BG2?

Wanderon

IMO Mage in general is not very powerful in BG1 or certainly not for much of the game dualed or otherwise due to relatively low spell levels and limited number of spells (especially since the rings no longer stack) - it's not until BG2 they really come into power.

Erg

griever0483 said:

I'm the only one thinking a berseker (or pure fighter) / mage is a stronger character than a kensage?

I've believe it depends on when you dual. To get the most out of Kensai/Mage you have to play all BG1 as Kensai and dual to mage in BG2. If you dual in BGEE, you're probably right.

griever0483

Erg said:

griever0483 said:

I'm the only one thinking i berseker (or pure fighter) / mage is a strongest character than a kensage?

I've believe it depends on when you dual. To get the most out of Kensai/Mage you have to play all BG1 as Kensai and dual to mage in BG2. If you dual in BGEE, you're probably right.

I prefer a berseker mage even in Bg2. I dual at level 13. Kensage have +4 thaco and +4 damage, but it becomes only +2 thaco and +2 damage by equipping the berseker/mage with helm of balduran and Legacy of the masters. My berseker/mage had a base AC of -14, kensage AC is more or less only 0. The Kay ability does make up for this great difference in AC?

Erg

griever0483 said:

I prefer a berseker mage even in Bg2. I dual at level 13. Kensage have +4 thaco and +4 damage, but it becomes only +2 thaco and +2 damage by equipping the berseker/mage with helm of balduran and Legacy of the masters. My berseker/mage had a base AC of -14, kensage AC is more or less only -2. The Kay ability does make up for this great difference in AC?

A Kensai/Mage is imho clearly superior to a Fighter/Mage in BG2. The comparison with a Berserker/Mage is more difficult. Kensai gives you better THAC0, Berserker gives you "Rage" with all the nice immunities. So at the end it depends on personal preferences. I still prefer slightly the Kensai/Mage, but I agree the Berserker/Mage is nice too.

The difference in AC is imho less important because you can use Stoneskin + Mirror Image to enhance your survivability and besides a Kensai/Mage dual wielding Katanas can usually kill enemies fast enough to limit the chance of being hit.

Really imho the Berserker should be considered a valid alternative more for Rage than the AC difference.

Sidemi

@griever0483 @Erg
That's why i asked about level cap. None of those four are good in BG:EE with level cap. But Minsc will be very proud of you and your butt kicking for goodness later in SoA.

DarkDogg

I'd say - Cleric\Ranger
http://www.gamefaqs.com/pc/258273-baldurs-gate-ii-shadows-of-amn/faqs/39404

Erg

DarkDogg said:

I'd say - Cleric\Ranger
http://www.gamefaqs.com/pc/258273-baldurs-gate-ii-shadows-of-amn/faqs/39404

I've tried a dual Ranger/Cleric in BP and, to be honest, I wasn't overly impressed. But I've never tried a multi in BGEE/BP or both the dual and the multi in BG2, so my experience with this build is limited.
I definitely intend to give it another try soon or later.

DarkDogg

Erg said:

I've tried a dual Ranger/Cleric in BP and, to be honest, I wasn't overly impressed. But I've never tried a multi in BGEE/BP or both the dual and the multi in BG2, so my experience with this build is limited.
I definitely intend to give it another try soon or later.

I see it that way.
If soloing a game - you'll probably need:
1. A Tank - give him heavy armor and high DEX\CON. All protective spells. (Druid spells FTW)
2. A DamageDealer - dual wielding mace\warhammer, high STR. (2 free stars in two weapon style)
3. A Support - healing and debuffing spells and you can bash almost every chest or door, with draw upon holy might for example. Find traps with a spell and etc.

Cleric\Ranger sounds just perfect :-)

Deucetipher

That's funny... I actually used the exact same guy as OP suggested, except with boots of avoidance instead of paws of the cheetah.

griever0483

Deucetipher said:

That's funny... I actually used the exact same guy as OP suggested, except with boots of avoidance instead of paws of the cheetah.

You are right. Boots of avoidance are more useful of Paws of Cheetah after patch 2012. Before this patch they granted you an additional +0.5 APR, now, no more. Still I like their double movement rate!

[Deleted User]

Erg said:

I've tried a dual Ranger/Cleric in BP and, to be honest, I wasn't overly impressed. But I've never tried a multi in BGEE/BP or both the dual and the multi in BG2, so my experience with this build is limited.
I definitely intend to give it another try soon or later.

Ranger/Cleric isn't all that impressive until you get 5th level spells (because Druid spellcasting isn't all that impressive until 5th level spells). The big sell is that you can combine Clerical buffs like Righteous Magic with Ironskins for melee fighting, and you have the really good high level offensive spells Druids get (Insect Plague, Summon Fire Elemental, Nature's Beauty) for when beating people over the head isn't enough.

Erg

Kaigen said:

Erg said:

I've tried a dual Ranger/Cleric in BP and, to be honest, I wasn't overly impressed. But I've never tried a multi in BGEE/BP or both the dual and the multi in BG2, so my experience with this build is limited.
I definitely intend to give it another try soon or later.

Ranger/Cleric isn't all that impressive until you get 5th level spells (because Druid spellcasting isn't all that impressive until 5th level spells). The big sell is that you can combine Clerical buffs like Righteous Magic with Ironskins for melee fighting, and you have the really good high level offensive spells Druids get (Insect Plague, Summon Fire Elemental, Nature's Beauty) for when beating people over the head isn't enough.

I'll try the Ranger/Cleric build in BG2 soon or later to see how it compares with the Berserker/Druid. I'm a big fan myself of the Druid spells from the 5th level onwards. After all, they are the main reason why I like so much the latter.

Lord_Tansheron

Ranger/Cleric is preferred in BG2 for one simple reason: FoA+5. While a Berserker -> Cleric can be powerful, it will gain Cleric HLAs, not fighter ones. That means no Greater Whirlwind, which is the only way to get decent APR using FoA+5 since its automatic Free Action prevents the effect of Improved Haste. And since FoA+5 is pretty much the best weapon in the entire series, period...

But "best CHARNAME" is difficult to establish either way. How are you looking at it? Playing solo? In a full party? What do you regard as important for being "the best"? Damage output? Resilience? Flexibility? And then there's of course the issue of modded vs. unmodded game...

No doubt though there are several combinations that are very powerful:

Kensai 13 -> Mage: in BG2 this becomes an indestructible killing machine. Berserker is inferior because you can immune yourself to most things your Rage would protect against in other ways, and Kai is ridiculous amounts of damage.

Ranger/Cleric: buffs, buffs, buffs! You become an incredibly resilient tank that can deal with everything thrown your way, all the while having access to fighter THAC0 and HLAs (see above), Turn Undead, and even Stealth.

Berserker -> Cleric: offensive tank. You basically trade druid buffs and fighter HLAs for grandmastery and Rage. Less resilient than R/C, but more damage output. Unfortunately suffers from the FoA+5/Improved Haste issue (see above).

Sorcerer: in BG2, mages are the undisputed kings, and sorcerers are the emperors of that world. They are THE spellcaster and can do pretty much whatever they want once they gain 9th level spells, though getting there can be iffy at times.

Archer: my personal BG1 choice (unmodded game). Ranged weapons are ridiculously powerful in BG1 and nobody uses them better than the Archer. You will have laughably low THAC0 very quickly, and you can pretty much kite everything in BG1 to death. I've killed Drizzt at lvl 3 on Insane just by kiting round in circles while my Archer finished him...

Personally, I find that BG1 doesn't offer enough challenges to warrant a "best CHARNAME" contest. Things will change once we see a (re-)emergence of the more difficult mods (Sword Coast Stratagems comes to mind), but until then it's not really a big contest. Not sure if that would change the OPness of ranged weapons, though! If you count kiting as abusive cheese, then I guess you could evaluate the "best" classes by the best weapons available. BG2 has a lot to choose from, but in BG1 there are only a handful of weapons clearly better than the rest (Drizzt's come to mind), so you'd likely want to make use of those.

griever0483

@Lord_Tanshernon @Erg I have this question from many years: why Kensage is deemed better than a berseker/mage? Kensage have +4 thaco and + 4 damage than a berseker/mage (presuming theiy are both dual classed at level 13) but they can'y use gauntlets and helms (helm of baldur and improved gauntlets of weapon expertise grant +2 thaco, +2 damage and +0.5 apr to a berseker/mage). Kai ability of Kansage deals great damage, but its use is limited. Kensage at the end of ToB will have 0 AC, Berseker/Mage -14 AC (evil path). This great difference in AC doesn't make up the additional damage granted by a kensage?
What is the purpose of greater damage when enemies do hit you all the times?

Lord_Tansheron

The plan is not to take any damage at all as Kensai/Mage, at least not any that involves AC checks. With Stoneskin and PfMW, no hits should get through pretty much ever. That means you can maximize your damage output, and maximize it you will. The innate bonus aside, I think you are grossly underestimating just how good Kai really is. Ever gone into Timestop with Kai and Improved Haste up? Sure you only have a few uses per day, but you don't need more - everything will be dead >_>

There are only very few scenarios where the Berserker Rage would even be relevant with all the Mage protections at your disposal.

What are the hardest battles in the (modded) game? I'd say Eclipse (Solaufein mod), Pontifex (The Ritual), Demogorgon (improved), Irenicus (improved), and Amelyssan (improved). None of those involves anything that you'd want Berserker Rage against particularly. The only fight where it might matter is Kangaxx, but going in there without foolproof protection against Imprisonment on everyone is pretty much suicide anway, Rage is only redundant.

Also keep in mind that while it's true your Berserker can use the damage gauntlets/helm, they are not entirely lost with a Kensai, not unless you play solo. Since you only have one of each of those, you will get their damage regardless, just from someone else - the innate Kensai damage bonus however is lost with a Berserker, no matter what's in your party.

[Deleted User]

@griever0483 By the end of ToB, enemies are going to be hitting you all the time even at -14 AC. By that point, all that matters are spells like Protection from Magic Weapons and Stoneskin, which both classes have equal access to.

Laflamme

What is the purpose of better armor class or greater damage, when your quest is vain?

Erg

griever0483 said:

@Lord_Tanshernon @Erg I have this question from many years: why Kensage is deemed better than a berseker/mage? Kensage have +4 thaco and + 4 damage than a berseker/mage (presuming theiy are both dual classed at level 13) but they can'y use gauntlets and helms (helm of baldur and improved gauntlets of weapon expertise grant +2 thaco, +2 damage and +0.5 apr to a berseker/mage). Kai ability of Kansage deals great damage, but its use is limited. Kensage at the end of ToB will have 0 AC, Berseker/Mage -14 AC (evil path). This great difference in AC doesn't make up the additional damage granted by a kensage?
What is the purpose of greater damage when enemies do hit you all the times?

@griever0483

I don't understand how it is possible to have a difference of 14 in the AC of Berserker/Mage vs. Kensai/Mage. Unless the Berserker is wearing an heavy armour and a tower shield and he shouldn't imho.

Assuming they are both wearing the Robe of Vecna and dual wielding there is very small difference in AC, if there is at all.

The best bracer is AC3 vs. Robe of Vecna AC5, but the Kensai has a 2 AC bonus, so no difference here.

The helm may give you a +1 bonus to AC, but there is also headgear that gives you bonus mage spell, so I'm not even sure your Berserker/Mage shouldn't wear one those instead.

If you meant that you rather prefer shields to dual wielding, consider that magical protection from buffing spells + the additional attack per round and the bonuses from the secondary weapon more than make up for the lack of Shield/AC, especially considering the uber weapons in Watcher's Keep/TOB.

Am I missing something? Where the 14 AC difference did it come from?

Lord_Tansheron

I assume he is not wearing Robe of Vecna, though you are probably right that 14 is a bit of a steep difference regardless.

Speaking of the Robe though, the same argument I mentioned earlier does apply; since it's an item you can potentially get equal benefit from by handing it to another mage in your party, it's not necessarily a factor.

Personally, I actually prefer it on my second mage, using the upgraded Robe of Archmagi (from the Item Uprade mod) on my K/M; I don't usually cast that many spells with it that have a high cast time, certainly less than with my other mage. And since there's only one Vecna either way, might as well give it to the one who spams spells during TS, and not to the one who's attacking.

griever0483

@Erg Sorry if I don't remember the item specific names.
And I forgot Kensage can use Ring of Protection +3, so:

Berseker Mage AC: 10- 10 (chain mail +4 improved) - 5 (best shield) - 4 (dexterity bonus) - 2 (Ring of Gaax) -2 (Evil Path) -1 (helm of Balduran) = -14

Kensage AC: 10 - 4 (dexterity bonus) - 2 (Ring of Gaax) - 2 (Evil Path) - 2 (Kensai innate bonus) -3 (Ring of Protection +3) = -3

Can a Kensage use Robe of Vecna? Isn't it considered an armor? I don't remember if he can use it in Vanilla ToB...

Erg

griever0483 said:

@Erg Sorry if I don't remember the item specific names.
And I forgot Kensage can use Ring of Protection +3, so:

Berseker Mage AC: 10- 10 (chain mail +4 improved) - 5 (best shield) - 4 (dexterity bonus) - 2 (Ring of Gaax) -2 (Evil Path) -1 (helm of Balduran) = -14

Kensage AC: 10 - 4 (dexterity bonus) - 2 (Ring of Gaax) - 2 (Evil Path) - 2 (Kensai innate bonus) -3 (Ring of Protection +3) = -3

Can a Kensage use Robe of Vecna? Isn't it considered an armor? I don't remember if he can use it in Vanilla ToB...

Yep, Kensai/Mage can use all mage robes including Vecna.

Berserker/Mage can use "Aslyferund Elven Chain"+"Shield of the Order"+"Helm of Balduran", but I'm not sure he should, for the reasons indicated in my previous post, especially because AC is not so important in TOB. I would rather have bonus spells and other bonuses from my gear than simply AC.