Yes, Kensai/Mages can use robes of all kinds, and always could as far as I know.
I'm not sure why you would ever use a shield with your Fighter/Mage, no matter what kit. It was mentioned before, but at the end of the saga, relevant enemies have truly ludicrous THAC0s and will hit you like trucks regardless of AC. The only way to deal with that is to either not get hit, mitigate the damage, or prevent it with protections - the latter in the case of F/M.
If you want to tank, go Ranger/Cleric or Blade (Defensive Spin with Jansen's Adventure Wear + Defender of Easthaven, nom nom nom). K/M's big strength is that you can immune yourself to incidental damage and maximize your damage output. I'm not sure there is any other class combination that can deal more damage, backstabbing aside (but all relevant enemies are immune to that anyway).
@Kaltzor while you COULD do that, and it's up to you to set the boundaries of your modifications, I think the majority of people stick to the basic rules of dual/multi-classing for the sake of a common-ground argument.
Can a Kensage use Robe of Vecna? Isn't it considered an armor? I don't remember if he can use it in Vanilla ToB...
Yep, Kensai/Mage can use all mage robes including Vecna.
Berserker/Mage can use "Aslyferund Elven Chain"+"Shield of the Order"+"Helm of Balduran", but I'm not sure he should, for the reasons indicated in my previous post, especially because AC is not so important in TOB. I would rather have bonus spells and other bonuses from my gear than simply AC.
If soloing the game, i'm also more for zerker/mage when dualing. In the end game it's the same, at least till you get there you are saving time, because you can wear gear instead of buffing before encounters. If soloing however, you should consider not to dual, i think with a multiclass F/M i was like 40/40 last time around, plenty of experience.
I didn't know Kensage could equip robes... I have to try it in my next playthrough! However this was may strategy for the harder encounters with my berseker/mage: Stoneskin, Simulacrum and then Contingency with improved haste, protection from magical weapons and tenser transformation (for both charname and his simulacrum). No one stood up to this combination... so I didn't need many additional spells but only AC... @Lord_Tansheron@Erg
Ranger/Cleric is preferred in BG2 for one simple reason: FoA+5. While a Berserker -> Cleric can be powerful, it will gain Cleric HLAs, not fighter ones. That means no Greater Whirlwind, which is the only way to get decent APR using FoA+5 since its automatic Free Action prevents the effect of Improved Haste. And since FoA+5 is pretty much the best weapon in the entire series, period...
But "best CHARNAME" is difficult to establish either way. How are you looking at it? Playing solo? In a full party? What do you regard as important for being "the best"? Damage output? Resilience? Flexibility? And then there's of course the issue of modded vs. unmodded game...
No doubt though there are several combinations that are very powerful:
Kensai 13 -> Mage: in BG2 this becomes an indestructible killing machine. Berserker is inferior because you can immune yourself to most things your Rage would protect against in other ways, and Kai is ridiculous amounts of damage.
You can quickswap to a different mainhand before casting (Improved) Haste and swap back. The Free Action won't remove haste.
Also, unless you're soloing or duoing, Kensai 13 -> Mage is literally torture.... 2.75M XP for what? +1 Dmg, +0.5 APR, slightly better unbuffed THAC0 (it's actually worse when you're using Tenser's), worse caster levels (too important offensively and defensively IMO), slower spell progression, and spend most of the game getting there instead of being there... No thank you.
I also prefer dual-classed Ranger -> Cleric simply because of higher spell caster levels, faster spell progression, worthwhile turn undead, better THAC0 with Holy Power, etc. I think those reasons alone make the Warrior HLA sacrifice worth it (more enjoyable experience to boot). Besides GWW, is so damn short (1 round per use)... =(
Can a Kensage use Robe of Vecna? Isn't it considered an armor? I don't remember if he can use it in Vanilla ToB...
How did you manage to omit Robe of Vecna for Kensage? And like others said, by the time you get Aslyferund or Bladesinger Chain, AC is mostly irrelevant. Protection spells and damage reduction is what's important at that stage of the game. And if AC is such a concern, cast Spirit Armor or Barkskin (it's the only worthwhile Druid/Ranger spell at that level). I don't think I ever even considered using a shield over DWing on my FIghter/Mages, and Vecna's OP cast time reduction is far more desirable anyway.
@Lord_Tanshernon@Erg I have this question from many years: why Kensage is deemed better than a berseker/mage? Kensage have +4 thaco and + 4 damage than a berseker/mage (presuming theiy are both dual classed at level 13) but they can'y use gauntlets and helms (helm of baldur and improved gauntlets of weapon expertise grant +2 thaco, +2 damage and +0.5 apr to a berseker/mage). Kai ability of Kansage deals great damage, but its use is limited. Kensage at the end of ToB will have 0 AC, Berseker/Mage -14 AC (evil path). This great difference in AC doesn't make up the additional damage granted by a kensage? What is the purpose of greater damage when enemies do hit you all the times?
For the Kensage helm slot: Pale Green Ioun Stone (+10% HP, +1 to THAC0).
Enrage is amazing, but the bonuses can be mostly replicated by other spells. Other than Kangaxx, I never felt like it was that much of a boon compared to the alternatives. I personally like the permanent bonus from Kensai more than the 3-4 rages you get per day. Besides, you'll spend more time with the perma Kensai bonus, than using those Gauntlets anyway (you still get worse THAC0 and +dmg for that +0.5 APR).
I'd like to point out that rage gives +2 to damage, hit and AC. If it is assumed you are raging for the majority of your fights, then this just about cancels out with the Kensai's AC bonus and halves the difference in their damage/hit. Given the right gauntlets, the difference is pretty much eliminated.
I don't think Kai is as good as everyone seems to make it out to be. It's powerful, sure, but maybe not enough to match the hype. Damage range is decided entirely by the base weapon being used. A katana is 1-10, average 5.5, max 10. Kai, then, adds an average of 4.5 damage. With a +3 weapon, +4 from Kensai levels, +7 from strength (I'm assuming a 19), +2 from specialization and no other modifiers (unlikely), you are looking at an average of 21.5 damage per hit, or 26 with Kai, which is a ~21% increase. Which is huge... but with every additional point of damage from other sources, it becomes less relevant. By the end of BG2 (which is about where all the combos mentioned become possible) I doubt it will be greater than 10-15%. And this is with katanas; with almost any other weapon, the damage range is smaller. The Flail of Ages would only give ~2.5 extra damage.
Again, this is end-game. At this point, it more or less boils down to +5-15% more damage for 5 rounds(?)/day and more reliable armor/hit/damage bonuses, plus a bit of speed factor (which may or may not be rendered irrelevant by proficiencies/enchantments), or a host of immunities/bonuses for 3 turns/day and a much wider equipment selection.
Of course, most of those immunities can be gained through other means, and then there's the weakened state after raging (though it is unlikely any battle will last that long).
I'd like to point out that rage gives +2 to damage, hit and AC. If it is assumed you are raging for the majority of your fights, then this just about cancels out with the Kensai's AC bonus and halves the difference in their damage/hit. Given the right gauntlets, the difference is pretty much eliminated.
That's the thing. You WON'T have it up for most fights because you only get 3-4 (3 at lvl 9 Zerker) a day. So yes, you would have it for the important fights, but you won't have it up for "most" fights (unless you are a very frequent rester).
I agree with you that Kai is a little overrated, but it surpasses the damage bonus Enrage gets in comparison. On the other hand, Kai lasts for like 2 rounds, while Enrage lasts for 10.
I tried the whole kensai thing... started out in tutu then dualed at level 13 once i hit SOA and did the whole kick out party, memorize spell thing, etc. I got out of the underdark and I was so damn bored I dumped the character... I know the class is supposedly OP and PWNS and all those other silly acronyms, but I have to say it was one of the most BORING playthrough's ever. Oh I forgot to add IMO.
I played a Kensai(9)->Mage in BG2, and to be honest even though it was cool taking advantage of being able to wear robes, it felt a bit limiting by the time you get to ToB. Even though having low AC isn't that great for a Fighter/Mage at this level (having Stoneskin, Mirror Image (Off chance they don't dispel it), Protection from Magic Weapons etc.), the +1 saves and 5% MR from your Archmagi Robe isn't too great either with all the protection spells you have at that stage. I would have liked to be able to switch to the neat Elven Chain +5 at that point.
Basically, from what I'm reading, while the Kensai->Mage might be technically better from a powergame perspective, a Berserker->Mage certainly has more options available.
A few math points here. The relevance of AC depends highly on how low you can get an opponents roll. Sarevok has a -5 Thaco, meaning you need a -25 AC to get him to have to roll a 20 to hit. On average this multiplies the number of attacks/rounds you can survive by almost 20. For -24 AC its x10, for -22 its x5, for -18 it's x2.5, -10 it's x1.25.
So the last few points of AC towards -25 matters the most, if you can't make it all the way there it hardly matters. If you can make it, the benefits of more hitpoints become huge since you will rarely be getting hit.
Compared to maxing DEX/CON, STR matters only a little bit unless you are attacking something with really high AC (not Sarevok FYI). It will shave a few rounds off of your kill time, compared to the multiplying survivability effect of Max AC. Of course AC doesn't matter if you get crowd controlled.
Your character is overpowered because you can reroll stats and redistribute points to max out your important stats. To take the most advantage of this, you need to be a warrior. Warriors get extra attacks and/or GWW to max Str Benefit, but more importantly have the most Con HP bonuses, and can wear all armor to get them to absurd AC levels.
Specifically a human blackguard or shorty vanilla fighter appears the way to go. With blackguard you lose out on an extra attack from weapon mastery until GWW, but in exchange you get the poison weapon ability (huge extra dam with no save with high apr). If you use the str book to get 19 str, you get +7 dam per attack and with GWW that and poison weapon you can do ridiculous damage while still using a shield and being really hard to kill. He also gets an enemy debuff that is equivalent to +4 AC, and a self heal in the form of a drain hp attack.
A short vanilla fighter is an alternative due to saving throw bonuses and higher attack from weapon mastery. Other classes can come close as long as you can stack enough AC buffs to get him to -25, but the extra hitpoints are a big deal.
Getting an opponent down to 1/20 chance to hit is the single most overpowered thing you can do. Though magic and special abilities bypass this, defenses against these mostly depend on situational gear, items, and party abilities. No one character class defends against all of them by itself.
Nothing about this game is really balanced for multiple playstyles when you start min/maxing. 1 handed weapons with lower str requirements and better damage type out damage 2 handed weapons with higher str requirements and slash damage. It's more of a role playing game.
maybe doesn't quite get into gear in BGEE/BG1, but fighter/mage/thief would be my choice, because... holy shit. they can become immune to anything* the game can throw at you. as in, ANYTHING*. use any item? backstab? *time traps* and thief HLAs? close to full fighter functionality with the protection spells of mages? being useful from start to finish, instead of having a 1,5M xp gap where you're akin to a newborn kitten? kensai -> mages can't even compare.
second place would probably go to ranger/clerics, they're cool, easy to play, have great physical defenses, but getting imprisonment thrown at you is a bitch.
*magic dispelling physical attacks and anti-magic rays not included - nothing can become immune to those. FMTs at least can kill the user with time traps/assassination before they get stripped of their protections.
A fighter/mage/thief is cool but in a legal game, the XP cap is 8000000. fighter/mage/thief with this XP hasn't any level 9 spells (+ No Mage HLA). Even with 10000000 XP, only has one level 9 spell.
A fighter/mage/thief wihtout level 9 spells dies in seconds VS Sorcerer
The beautiful thing about 2E is that it may be broken, but everything's kind of broken together. Cleric/Rangers, Sorcerers, Mage/Priest, Wild Mages, Inquisitors, Kensages, Barbarian/Mages...I don't think there really is a worst among the lot, just a lot of different ways to become a juggernaut in the Realms.
Um...I liked playing as a Dualed Swashbuckler/Fighter. Switched at lvl 6 (though 5 is probably a better HP bonus, but no matter...), dualwielding scimitars (Twinkle) and axes (+2 Mauletar version or thrown). 3 pips in dualwielding, 5 pips in axes and 1 in scimitars. Maxing out armor and rings, etc, I ended up doing about 18-25 damage with 3 thac0 (in Main) and -10 AC...potions and spells buff that up even further and gave me no problem with anyone really. Getting confused/held/dominated could be problematic though...Still I think this is the strongest fighter styled character for BG 1.
Stats and Clothes: Armor: Ankheng Plate, Paws of Cheetah, Greenstone Amulet, Spirit Shield, Helm of Noble, Legacy of Masters, Destroyer of Hills Weapons: Battle Axe of Mauletar +2, Twinkle +5 (+3, -2 AC)
After consulting my brother (the real brains) I was also thinking Berzerker 7 dualed into Thief would be pretty sweet...maybe even better considering possible backstab multipliers, and with Drizzt ChainMail still sufficient on defense. The Rage ability would help eliminate the problem when facing spell casters too...
AC maxes about -6, -8 enraged...damage is 16-23 or 18-25 (enraged again and focused on longswords, 5 pips, and daggers, 1 pip, plus 3 pips in dual-wielding)...if you made it scimitars and equipped Twinkle it appears a good equal to the swashbuckler/fighter....but an extra 30+hp is a pretty significant incentive...
Comments
And you've forgotten cloacks (clk of balduran, clk of the sewers and etc.)
I'm not sure why you would ever use a shield with your Fighter/Mage, no matter what kit. It was mentioned before, but at the end of the saga, relevant enemies have truly ludicrous THAC0s and will hit you like trucks regardless of AC. The only way to deal with that is to either not get hit, mitigate the damage, or prevent it with protections - the latter in the case of F/M.
If you want to tank, go Ranger/Cleric or Blade (Defensive Spin with Jansen's Adventure Wear + Defender of Easthaven, nom nom nom). K/M's big strength is that you can immune yourself to incidental damage and maximize your damage output. I'm not sure there is any other class combination that can deal more damage, backstabbing aside (but all relevant enemies are immune to that anyway).
Also, unless you're soloing or duoing, Kensai 13 -> Mage is literally torture.... 2.75M XP for what? +1 Dmg, +0.5 APR, slightly better unbuffed THAC0 (it's actually worse when you're using Tenser's), worse caster levels (too important offensively and defensively IMO), slower spell progression, and spend most of the game getting there instead of being there... No thank you.
I also prefer dual-classed Ranger -> Cleric simply because of higher spell caster levels, faster spell progression, worthwhile turn undead, better THAC0 with Holy Power, etc. I think those reasons alone make the Warrior HLA sacrifice worth it (more enjoyable experience to boot). Besides GWW, is so damn short (1 round per use)... =(
How did you manage to omit Robe of Vecna for Kensage? And like others said, by the time you get Aslyferund or Bladesinger Chain, AC is mostly irrelevant. Protection spells and damage reduction is what's important at that stage of the game. And if AC is such a concern, cast Spirit Armor or Barkskin (it's the only worthwhile Druid/Ranger spell at that level). I don't think I ever even considered using a shield over DWing on my FIghter/Mages, and Vecna's OP cast time reduction is far more desirable anyway.
For the Kensage helm slot: Pale Green Ioun Stone (+10% HP, +1 to THAC0).
Enrage is amazing, but the bonuses can be mostly replicated by other spells. Other than Kangaxx, I never felt like it was that much of a boon compared to the alternatives. I personally like the permanent bonus from Kensai more than the 3-4 rages you get per day. Besides, you'll spend more time with the perma Kensai bonus, than using those Gauntlets anyway (you still get worse THAC0 and +dmg for that +0.5 APR).
I don't think Kai is as good as everyone seems to make it out to be. It's powerful, sure, but maybe not enough to match the hype.
Damage range is decided entirely by the base weapon being used. A katana is 1-10, average 5.5, max 10. Kai, then, adds an average of 4.5 damage.
With a +3 weapon, +4 from Kensai levels, +7 from strength (I'm assuming a 19), +2 from specialization and no other modifiers (unlikely), you are looking at an average of 21.5 damage per hit, or 26 with Kai, which is a ~21% increase. Which is huge... but with every additional point of damage from other sources, it becomes less relevant. By the end of BG2 (which is about where all the combos mentioned become possible) I doubt it will be greater than 10-15%. And this is with katanas; with almost any other weapon, the damage range is smaller. The Flail of Ages would only give ~2.5 extra damage.
Again, this is end-game. At this point, it more or less boils down to +5-15% more damage for 5 rounds(?)/day and more reliable armor/hit/damage bonuses, plus a bit of speed factor (which may or may not be rendered irrelevant by proficiencies/enchantments), or a host of immunities/bonuses for 3 turns/day and a much wider equipment selection.
Of course, most of those immunities can be gained through other means, and then there's the weakened state after raging (though it is unlikely any battle will last that long).
I agree with you that Kai is a little overrated, but it surpasses the damage bonus Enrage gets in comparison. On the other hand, Kai lasts for like 2 rounds, while Enrage lasts for 10.
You'll never rely on your armor, but on your stoneskins and pfmw.
Basically, from what I'm reading, while the Kensai->Mage might be technically better from a powergame perspective, a Berserker->Mage certainly has more options available.
So the last few points of AC towards -25 matters the most, if you can't make it all the way there it hardly matters. If you can make it, the benefits of more hitpoints become huge since you will rarely be getting hit.
Compared to maxing DEX/CON, STR matters only a little bit unless you are attacking something with really high AC (not Sarevok FYI). It will shave a few rounds off of your kill time, compared to the multiplying survivability effect of Max AC. Of course AC doesn't matter if you get crowd controlled.
Your character is overpowered because you can reroll stats and redistribute points to max out your important stats. To take the most advantage of this, you need to be a warrior. Warriors get extra attacks and/or GWW to max Str Benefit, but more importantly have the most Con HP bonuses, and can wear all armor to get them to absurd AC levels.
Specifically a human blackguard or shorty vanilla fighter appears the way to go. With blackguard you lose out on an extra attack from weapon mastery until GWW, but in exchange you get the poison weapon ability (huge extra dam with no save with high apr). If you use the str book to get 19 str, you get +7 dam per attack and with GWW that and poison weapon you can do ridiculous damage while still using a shield and being really hard to kill. He also gets an enemy debuff that is equivalent to +4 AC, and a self heal in the form of a drain hp attack.
A short vanilla fighter is an alternative due to saving throw bonuses and higher attack from weapon mastery. Other classes can come close as long as you can stack enough AC buffs to get him to -25, but the extra hitpoints are a big deal.
Getting an opponent down to 1/20 chance to hit is the single most overpowered thing you can do. Though magic and special abilities bypass this, defenses against these mostly depend on situational gear, items, and party abilities. No one character class defends against all of them by itself.
Nothing about this game is really balanced for multiple playstyles when you start min/maxing. 1 handed weapons with lower str requirements and better damage type out damage 2 handed weapons with higher str requirements and slash damage. It's more of a role playing game.
The best power player charname for me is kensai (dual lvl 13) / mage.
1 - Sorcerer. UNDISPUTED.
2 - Maybe Kensai 13/Mage
second place would probably go to ranger/clerics, they're cool, easy to play, have great physical defenses, but getting imprisonment thrown at you is a bitch.
*magic dispelling physical attacks and anti-magic rays not included - nothing can become immune to those. FMTs at least can kill the user with time traps/assassination before they get stripped of their protections.
A fighter/mage/thief wihtout level 9 spells dies in seconds VS Sorcerer
Stats and Clothes:
Armor: Ankheng Plate, Paws of Cheetah, Greenstone Amulet, Spirit Shield, Helm of Noble, Legacy of Masters, Destroyer of Hills
Weapons: Battle Axe of Mauletar +2, Twinkle +5 (+3, -2 AC)
After consulting my brother (the real brains) I was also thinking Berzerker 7 dualed into Thief would be pretty sweet...maybe even better considering possible backstab multipliers, and with Drizzt ChainMail still sufficient on defense. The Rage ability would help eliminate the problem when facing spell casters too...
AC maxes about -6, -8 enraged...damage is 16-23 or 18-25 (enraged again and focused on longswords, 5 pips, and daggers, 1 pip, plus 3 pips in dual-wielding)...if you made it scimitars and equipped Twinkle it appears a good equal to the swashbuckler/fighter....but an extra 30+hp is a pretty significant incentive...
;P