Bard Song and Turn Undead buttons
Nifft
Member Posts: 1,065
I'd like to script these to behave entirely differently from how they do now. Is that possible?
In my experience, these modal buttons interact very poorly with behavior scripts. For example, a Cleric with a ranged weapon will frequently stop turning undead in order to take a shot at an enemy. If turning undead behaved more like a spell -- with a casting time, and possibly even a spell chant & animation -- then clicking it in the middle of combat would be far less frustrating.
Similarly, my Bard's music is too often disabled by his ranged attack script. I'd like to re-work Bardic music entirely, which could involve changing the button's behavior, or simply removing it and using Innate / Item buttons for special effects.
I didn't see this specifically in the Consolidated Externalization Requests thread (though externalization of bard songs might be useful if I can re-use some of those effects).
In my experience, these modal buttons interact very poorly with behavior scripts. For example, a Cleric with a ranged weapon will frequently stop turning undead in order to take a shot at an enemy. If turning undead behaved more like a spell -- with a casting time, and possibly even a spell chant & animation -- then clicking it in the middle of combat would be far less frustrating.
Similarly, my Bard's music is too often disabled by his ranged attack script. I'd like to re-work Bardic music entirely, which could involve changing the button's behavior, or simply removing it and using Innate / Item buttons for special effects.
I didn't see this specifically in the Consolidated Externalization Requests thread (though externalization of bard songs might be useful if I can re-use some of those effects).
2
Comments
The externalization of Bard Song would make it so you can change the ability. I assume the same is true for Turn Undead. Right now there are other priorities, but when the team jumps back into the code for BG2, they may have more time to look at something like this.
The Bard (and Skald)'s Counter-song is what the current bard song most resembles. It requires their full attention, can be used in direct combat, and for each round of singing allows allies who are affected by mind effecting spells or morale break/fear to reattempt their save every turn as well as having a chance to block speech based spells while active (Command, Suggestion, etc etc, it allows those effected an immediate 2nd chance to save if they fail the first time or if the spell doesn't normally allow a save it allows them one chance to save vs spells to avoid the effect)
The Skald song works similar except there are 6 possible effects (+1 hit, +1 damage, +2 morale, +1 ac, +1 saves/6 levels, +1 max hp/level), and for every 3 levels of Skald another effect can be added per song, and unlike the Bard song, lasts until the Skald takes damage when engaging in melee combat (they can sing while engaging in combat, but the song ends immediately if they take damage) or if they stay at ranged 1 round per skald level, since they're not as inspiring if they hang back like a chicken (which isn't as bad as it sounds since PnP Skald can wear up to plate mail).
Turn Undead is actually working 100% correct for 2nd edition. The cleric must present their holy symbol and focus their divine power while chanting hymns and verses of their faith, preventing other actions more strenuous then movement during turning attempts. (A silenced cleric turns undead at only half his level, since the chanting is required for full effect)
1 - The ability to fix the existing system so it annoys me less in play; and
2 - The ability to REPLACE the existing system so it works differently.
Fixing scripts could reduce my annoyance in (1), but does nothing to help me with (2).
@ZanathKariashi & @Bhalldog
It sounds like you are both rather hostile to the idea of changing BGEE mechanics, even when those mechanics don't work for the video game, or when they differ from your favorite D&D edition.
If the mechanics are working for you, that's great: don't install any mods which change them. But also, please don't try to get in the way of people who DO want to change them.
The game is unfairly biased towards some classes, not because that isn't just the way the system is, but because of laziness for implementing the class properly. Bard's being a poster child for this. Their F'ing song, their one truly unique ability doesn't even work the way it's supposed to, not to mention their high level spell progression isn't implemented properly (up to 8th level starting at level 27), and they can't place multiple points in Two Weapon style which ALL rogues are supposed to be able to do (Blades start with the equivalent of 0/-2 (or equal to *** in BG) in PnP and their offensive spin is a 1 round cast that causes their next attack to make the enemy run in fear for 5 rounds) , while swashbucklers are actually specialists at single weapon style (They can specialize 1 one weapon out of a select list of weapons (gaining the extra +1 hit, +2 damage, and +1/2 attack as normal), when wielding any of those select weapons (not just their specialized one) they use the warrior thac0 table, and when wielding one of the select weapons with their off-hand free they can make an additional attack each round, but can't backstab since they traded more general combat knowledge for specifics of anatomy like most other thieves study).
1 - Emulating 2e PnP is a fine goal, but it's not my only goal in requesting this feature.
2 - BGEE is a video game. It must work well as a video game. Period. Implementing a better 2e PnP emulation of the bard song would be possible with the features that I'm requesting, but that's not the only use for them.
I get what you're saying though, don't misunderstand me about that. I just feel that the parts that are working correctly for 2nd edition, should be left as they are. I don't mind opening up the system for modders to make the changes they want, but I would prefer that any core changes to the game bring it closer to PnP rather then away, since the game is already a joke compared to even BG1 due to all the new engine exploits and over-powered mechanics introduced in BG2 and EE.
You shouldn't try to stop people who want to change things, though.
You seem like a smart and reasonable person, so this is probably not your intention, but coming in to this thread just to try to talk me out of trying to fix something that I dislike? That's borderline thread-crapping. Please don't do that any more.
Thanks, -- N
I'm not as good at articulating what I'm trying to get across as I'd like to be.
I'd much rather have a LESS powerful effect with an easy-to-use interface. IMHO that's a recipe for a better experience.
I'm happy to mod these less powerful effects myself, but I need the BGEE devs to give me the tools to do this.
Finally, with ToB HLAs on the table, the whole Bard Song balance across kits breaks down: kits which were previously balanced around inferior songs are brought up the same level, but they get to keep all the perks. Specifically I'm looking at the Blade.
I have an idea to fix this, and it'll even make it useful to have multiple different Bards in the same party at once, but I'd like to be able to change how the button works. Worst case scenario I could just disable the button and use Innate buttons for my new effects, but that seems less desirable.
Thanks, -- N
All I want is to be able to click the turn undead button or search for traps button and be sure that when the opportunity comes that character will turn undead or search for traps. I hate having to click undead and then check back 5 times over the course of the round to be sure that character hasn't decided to react to being attacked by breaking off the turn undead or searching activity.
When we click on bard song/turn undead/find trap button, our character doesnt stop until we click again.
Even if you will want attack someone or cast spell, you will must turn it off first.