Jan isn't evil at all, he's neutral, with little regard laws and regulations. He does a lot of good things, but isn't above getting his hands dirty if he feels its required for the task at hand.
Like murdering someone who REALLY deserves it, and then using some illusions and a bunch of monkeys to beat the murder rap.
I don't think I would want to see Dorn become morally redeemable, and get a possible alignment shift. In BG2:EE I'm looking forward to an expansion of what already makes him tick (see here), i.e., to see that developed. There's a lot of wrinkles that could come from having a character like that in your party. I'd rather see that explored with some interesting twists. If it were all real then of course, make him redeemable, yes. But it's a game.
Generally, I like the idea of more alignment-change options. OPTIONS though, not a plot point you can't avoid. I wouldn't want it for ALL NPCs, that would be a bit much and make alignments meaningless. In Dorn's case, I can see how the interactions with charname and all could lead him down a more neutral path (not a good path though; he enjoys violence too much to be a goody two shoes). The reason why I think he'd be okay for a redemption quest is more the fact that he is the only possible male-male romance. The romance distribution already heavily favors guys who are into elf girls. Giving the alternative romance option the chance to fit better into a good aligned party could shift that balance a bit. And he'd be a romance option for female charnames of all alignments, which is probably a much needed alternative to Anomen. Being so versatile, he should have reasonable options to fit in all parties.
There are other NPCs I can't see with an alignment switch - i.e. as much as I like Keldorn and can't fit him into my evil parties, it would be illogical to give him the option to be corrupted. He's a veteran, he has seen his share of temptations and challenges; he should know how to resist the evil forces. A young, inexperienced paladin - sure, but Keldorn, no.
I significantly doubt Dorn will become Lawful Good, unless it is an engine bug.
I was joking.
I kinda want the new Thief NPC to be a more interesting race than human.
I am after a Duergar Assassin.
Yes! Though I would also appreciate the new Shadow Dancer should it get implemented, but DUERGAR all the way.
Trouble with a Shadowdancer (as proposed) is they get even fewer skill points than assassins. In order to use HiPS they will need to put what skill points they do get into stealth, which makes them useless for finding traps, so you will probably need a second thief in the party anyway.
Trouble with a Shadowdancer (as proposed) is they get even fewer skill points than assassins. In order to use HiPS they will need to put what skill points they do get into stealth, which makes them useless for finding traps, so you will probably need a second thief in the party anyway.
But in 3rd edition hide is countered by spot and listen skills - since there's no such thing in the game, a shadowdancer would be invincible, no?
Trouble with a Shadowdancer (as proposed) is they get even fewer skill points than assassins. In order to use HiPS they will need to put what skill points they do get into stealth, which makes them useless for finding traps, so you will probably need a second thief in the party anyway.
But in 3rd edition hide is countered by spot and listen skills - since there's no such thing in the game, a shadowdancer would be invincible, no?
It's only the same as activating invisibility (slightly worse, because the light map affects stealth), which, in BG2, can be achieved by equipping a certain item.
But the point of adding an evil thief to BG2 was so that an evil party didn't have to drag along a neutral or good thief in order to detect traps. If the new evil thief was a shadowdancer, you would still have to bring a non-evil trap detector.
I would imagine that you have to be inside the shadow (as per PnP) for it to work. I think you get a huge penalty to hide if it's day or you are out of shadows, so it's balanced. It's no worse than spamming Invisiblity potions (*cough*ToB Thieves*cough*) or spells.
It's no more invincible than a mage that casts Sequencer and Time Stop, I think. Backstab was mostly worthless in the BG games since there were so many parameters for it to work and most chose Swashbuckler or a Fighter/Thief, instead. How to counter Shadowdancers? Stay away from shadows.
@Fardragon Not necessarily. Imoen at level 7 (?) Thief has almost maxed Open Lock and Detect Trap skills and I used her through Throne of Bhaal with a couple trap/lock enhancing items that you find.
Maybe the new Thief/Shadowdancer NPC has Stealth enhancing items that help? Like Jan? You can focus on the other skills, then.
Imoen at level 7 has 190 points to put into thief skills, and has no need to max out stealth skills. A Shadowdancer would have 120 points of thief skills at level 7, and needs to dump around 200 into stealth before HIPS is as good as invisibility. If you want to make up the difference with "items" you could just equip a regular thief with an invisiblity item, and be superior in every way.
@Fardragon I'm not talking about BG1, by the way. BG1 has no need of thieves. I actually need we have too many. Who took Skie or Alora, for example?
The new Thief NPC in BG2 could have 100/100 in stealth and maybe his own stealth item, combined with 19 Dex for great thieving skills. Then, you can raise the other skills in the meantime.
And invisibility is limited and it can be disrupted or detected with True Seeing. Hide in Plain Sight has unlimited uses (unless I'm missing something) and it cannot be disrupted. Not sure about being detected.
I assume 19 DEX and a special item since all evil NPCs have a maxed main stat and something special about them. Dorn has 19 STR, Viconia 18 WIS and 19 DEX and 50% MR, Korgan 19 CON, Edwin 18 INT and his amulet and Sarevok is beastly, plus has Deathbringer Assault.
Depending on how accurate they implement HiPS, it may or may not require a minimum light level to function, since HiPS requires being within 10 ft of a shadow at least as large as the character to function (aka, it'd be useless in broad daylight, unless there was a shadowed area you could duck into to darken your character and then attempt to hide, but unlike the normal stealth, could attempt to do so while observed).
True seeing is technically supposed to reveal stealth and be unaffected by non-detection, but currently non-detection protects stealth from true-seeing, where as invisibility from spells is never protected (though invisibility from items is, but only if you're wearing the cloak of non-detection or have another item that grants it as true-seeing dispels spell-based non-detection.
@Fardragon I'm not talking about BG1, by the way. BG1 has no need of thieves. I actually need we have too many. Who took Skie or Alora, for example?
I'm talking about BG2.
The new Thief NPC in BG2 could have 100/100 in stealth and maybe his own stealth item, combined with 19 Dex for great thieving skills. Then, you can raise the other skills in the meantime.
Sure they could. So long as they didn't have the leaked Shadowdancer kit, which even with 25 dex and a +200% Hide in Shadows item would be worse than a standard thief with an invisibility item (at least one unlimited use invisiblity item is in BG2, probably more), because they get worse backstab multipliers.
The Minsc argument is way worse. The Ranger as a perk gets 2 points in two weapon fighting. He still gets 4 points at creation on top of those for a total of 6 on creation.
People keep calling it a waste, but if I make an Archer, and don't use the called shot ability, it isn't a waste.
So it doesn't become available until very late in BG2 and ToB, for pure Thieves. You cannot dual it or use Single Weapon Style and few Thieves would pick it up, when they can get Shortbow/Longbow, Short Sword, Katana, Dagger etc. Also Invisibility can be detected with True Seeing.
That's like saying that half-orcs are crap since you can get Crom Faeyr and belts of strength.
Also to get the Staff of Magi you need to do the Twisted Rune quest to get it.
Invisiblity is commonplace in BG2. You could always stock up on invisiblity potions.
And it's only as good as what you can do with it. Shadowdancers are poor damage dealers and poor trap detectors. The extra survivability of at-will invisibity is useful for CHARNAME, but otherwise can be achieved by any NPC by leaving them in the inn!
I could see a CHARNAME Shadowdancer, dualed to fighter at level 9, being worthwhile, but they are incapable of filling the BG2 evil party hole.
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Like murdering someone who REALLY deserves it, and then using some illusions and a bunch of monkeys to beat the murder rap.
Yes! Though I would also appreciate the new Shadow Dancer should it get implemented, but DUERGAR all the way.
I'm really curious what will happen in ToB, to be honest. Gromnir probably has a few words to say to him.
There are other NPCs I can't see with an alignment switch - i.e. as much as I like Keldorn and can't fit him into my evil parties, it would be illogical to give him the option to be corrupted. He's a veteran, he has seen his share of temptations and challenges; he should know how to resist the evil forces. A young, inexperienced paladin - sure, but Keldorn, no.
Trouble with a Shadowdancer (as proposed) is they get even fewer skill points than assassins. In order to use HiPS they will need to put what skill points they do get into stealth, which makes them useless for finding traps, so you will probably need a second thief in the party anyway.
But the point of adding an evil thief to BG2 was so that an evil party didn't have to drag along a neutral or good thief in order to detect traps. If the new evil thief was a shadowdancer, you would still have to bring a non-evil trap detector.
I would imagine that you have to be inside the shadow (as per PnP) for it to work. I think you get a huge penalty to hide if it's day or you are out of shadows, so it's balanced.
It's no worse than spamming Invisiblity potions (*cough*ToB Thieves*cough*) or spells.
It's no more invincible than a mage that casts Sequencer and Time Stop, I think. Backstab was mostly worthless in the BG games since there were so many parameters for it to work and most chose Swashbuckler or a Fighter/Thief, instead.
How to counter Shadowdancers? Stay away from shadows.
@Fardragon
Not necessarily. Imoen at level 7 (?) Thief has almost maxed Open Lock and Detect Trap skills and I used her through Throne of Bhaal with a couple trap/lock enhancing items that you find.
Maybe the new Thief/Shadowdancer NPC has Stealth enhancing items that help? Like Jan? You can focus on the other skills, then.
I'm not talking about BG1, by the way. BG1 has no need of thieves. I actually need we have too many. Who took Skie or Alora, for example?
The new Thief NPC in BG2 could have 100/100 in stealth and maybe his own stealth item, combined with 19 Dex for great thieving skills.
Then, you can raise the other skills in the meantime.
And invisibility is limited and it can be disrupted or detected with True Seeing. Hide in Plain Sight has unlimited uses (unless I'm missing something) and it cannot be disrupted. Not sure about being detected.
I assume 19 DEX and a special item since all evil NPCs have a maxed main stat and something special about them.
Dorn has 19 STR, Viconia 18 WIS and 19 DEX and 50% MR, Korgan 19 CON, Edwin 18 INT and his amulet and Sarevok is beastly, plus has Deathbringer Assault.
True seeing is technically supposed to reveal stealth and be unaffected by non-detection, but currently non-detection protects stealth from true-seeing, where as invisibility from spells is never protected (though invisibility from items is, but only if you're wearing the cloak of non-detection or have another item that grants it as true-seeing dispels spell-based non-detection.
Unlimited use? As in you cast it unlimited times per day or 1/day? I'm not sure I remember such an item. What is it called?
Still, can't that be interrupted?
The truth is all NPC's have their own personality. I don't want perfect NPC's that have have insane stats and the perfect balance of proficiencies.
People keep calling it a waste, but if I make an Archer, and don't use the called shot ability, it isn't a waste.
Also Invisibility can be detected with True Seeing.
That's like saying that half-orcs are crap since you can get Crom Faeyr and belts of strength.
Also to get the Staff of Magi you need to do the Twisted Rune quest to get it.
And it's only as good as what you can do with it. Shadowdancers are poor damage dealers and poor trap detectors. The extra survivability of at-will invisibity is useful for CHARNAME, but otherwise can be achieved by any NPC by leaving them in the inn!
I could see a CHARNAME Shadowdancer, dualed to fighter at level 9, being worthwhile, but they are incapable of filling the BG2 evil party hole.
Meh, I would still prefer Monty in BG2. Heh.