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Imoen must die *Throne of Bhaal spoilers*

IkMarcIkMarc Member Posts: 552
So I was playing ToB again and had killed all five the Bhaalspawn. At this point I was supposedly the only Bhaalspawn left alive and I went to the final boss for the ultimate battle for Godhood. The whole plot surrounded around all the Bhaal essence now being gathered and either Melissan or me would become the new God of Murder.

Then suddenly it occured to me:



My other party member is also a child of Bhaal. Did they overlook this when writing the storyline?

More accurate spoiler warning. -Jalily
Post edited by Jalily on
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Comments

  • KirkorKirkor Member Posts: 700
    She will just backstab you when you finish of Amelissan. Just for the lulz. And moneyz.
  • MadhaxMadhax Member Posts: 1,416
    This has bugged me, too. I seem to recall some line of dialogue from Solar that implied Imoen's share of the Bhaal essence was insignificant next to the PC's and to the Five, but it still seems like a plot hole to me. I've never beaten ToB as an evil PC, but I gather there's no option to, say, ritualistically sacrifice Imoen to absorb her soul or something if the PC intends to ascend.

    As ToB was a rushed production, it's possible that this was simply overlooked. Or perhaps it was originally intended to set up Imoen as a major antagonist in an eventual sequel?
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  • MadhaxMadhax Member Posts: 1,416
    @Bhaaldog Does she, though? I don't recall that.
  • EudaemoniumEudaemonium Member Posts: 3,199
    Bhaaldog said:

    Apparently you can willingly give up your Bhaal essence...

    How convenient that nobody mentioned this beforehand! I'm sure it would have really helped a lot of people, like that poor sap in the intro of BG1, or a PC who just wanted to retire and live a simple life sometime during BG1.

    Personally, I think the PC should kill Imoen once you discover the truth, since it saves the possibility of backstabbery later.
  • WilburWilbur Member Posts: 1,173
    And look how innocent she seems. That cunning b****.
  • ChowChow Member Posts: 1,192
    I don't think it matters much. Whether Amelyssan is lacking one Bhaalspawn essence or two, it probably doesn't make much difference either way. She still has a thousand to back up to.
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  • IkMarcIkMarc Member Posts: 552
    Madhax said:


    Or perhaps it was originally intended to set up Imoen as a major antagonist in an eventual sequel?

    That would be interesting
  • shawneshawne Member Posts: 3,239
    Come to think of it, I don't know if this is something Ascension introduced or if it fixed the trigger for dialogue that was already there, but the idea was

    when the Solar says you can give up your Bhaal essence, she makes the same offer to Imoen, who immediately accepts. After that, you're literally the last one standing.
  • atcDaveatcDave Member Posts: 2,387
    Supposedly Imoen was not meant to survive Spellhold, and her story was changed late.

    But even so, it IS covered, she willingly gives up her Bhaal rights. You may not buy it, but I'm happy to. I love being a team with little sis...
  • IkMarcIkMarc Member Posts: 552
    atcDave said:

    Supposedly Imoen was not meant to survive Spellhold, and her story was changed late.

    But even so, it IS covered, she willingly gives up her Bhaal rights. You may not buy it, but I'm happy to. I love being a team with little sis...

    She did? I must have missed that.
  • atcDaveatcDave Member Posts: 2,387
    IkMarc said:

    atcDave said:

    Supposedly Imoen was not meant to survive Spellhold, and her story was changed late.

    But even so, it IS covered, she willingly gives up her Bhaal rights. You may not buy it, but I'm happy to. I love being a team with little sis...

    She did? I must have missed that.
    Yeah during the final dialogues at the end of ToB.
  • IkMarcIkMarc Member Posts: 552
    Ok but still it kind of weakens the plot, since its not really mingled into the dialogues before.
  • atcDaveatcDave Member Posts: 2,387
    IkMarc said:

    Ok but still it kind of weakens the plot, since its not really mingled into the dialogues before.

    She does make it clear early on that she doesn't want the legacy. And then in the final discussion with the Solar, when you're given the choice on what to do with the Bhaal essence, Imoen goes first and gives hers to you.

    It's not a very involved story, but it is consistent for the character and it does tie up loose ends.
  • toanwrathtoanwrath Member Posts: 621
    What about Viekang, the teleporting Bhaalspawn in Saradush? He lives O.o
    Perhaps he willingly gave up is Bhaalspawn essence as well, I barely remember him (had to look his name up).
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  • theperm222theperm222 Member Posts: 84
    @ toanwrath that's the plot of BG3
  • toanwrathtoanwrath Member Posts: 621
    Bhaaldog said:

    toanwrath said:

    What about Viekang, the teleporting Bhaalspawn in Saradush? He lives O.o
    Perhaps he willingly gave up is Bhaalspawn essence as well, I barely remember him (had to look his name up).

    I was under the impression that he dies?
    But he teleports away from Saradush, so he could live right? It's never stated as far as I know.
  • atcDaveatcDave Member Posts: 2,387
    toanwrath said:

    Bhaaldog said:

    toanwrath said:

    What about Viekang, the teleporting Bhaalspawn in Saradush? He lives O.o
    Perhaps he willingly gave up is Bhaalspawn essence as well, I barely remember him (had to look his name up).

    I was under the impression that he dies?
    But he teleports away from Saradush, so he could live right? It's never stated as far as I know.
    I believe part of the story was he wound up trapped in Saradush because he had finally found a place that blocked his teleporting. So when Saradush fell and the Bhaalspawn were slaughtered... Well I think are expected to assume the worst.
  • MadhaxMadhax Member Posts: 1,416
    atcDave said:

    toanwrath said:

    Bhaaldog said:

    toanwrath said:

    What about Viekang, the teleporting Bhaalspawn in Saradush? He lives O.o
    Perhaps he willingly gave up is Bhaalspawn essence as well, I barely remember him (had to look his name up).

    I was under the impression that he dies?
    But he teleports away from Saradush, so he could live right? It's never stated as far as I know.
    I believe part of the story was he wound up trapped in Saradush because he had finally found a place that blocked his teleporting. So when Saradush fell and the Bhaalspawn were slaughtered... Well I think are expected to assume the worst.
    Nah, he's stuck in Saradush because someone (was it Melissan?) helped him overcome his fear, which stopped his teleport ability from triggering. Of course, that left him without a way out.

    However, you can actually cast Horror on him to allow him to escape. It's a minor quest. Assuming you do, he wouldn't die when Saradush was sacked, though who knows what happens to him later.
  • shawneshawne Member Posts: 3,239
    Given that he could have teleported anywhere in the Forgotten Realms, it's entirely possible he ended up in the Demonweb Pits or worse. :)
  • SharGuidesMyHandSharGuidesMyHand Member Posts: 2,582
    Making Imoen a child of Bhaal screwed up the entire storyline IMO.
  • XavioriaXavioria Member Posts: 874
    Wow, I'm amazed at how many people don't remember some of those plot events... not that it's a bad thing, just surprises the hell outta me...

    -Imoen was asked by Solar what she wants to do. Imoen gladly gives up the last of her essence, NOT to the protagonist directly, but to the collective. This in and of itself isn't an unfair plotline, because Solar can ALSO extract your own godly essence so that you may live a normal, mortal life, so it goes to figure, why can't Imoen, who is standing right next to you, do the same thing?

    -Viekang has always been an interesting and unresolved plot element to me, because of his unique ability to teleport away to a random place once he senses fear. @Madhax you're right the first time, it was Melissan who helped him out, and blocked his power. I don't think his ability would teleport him to a place that he would be fearful of, because the ability is a defense to it, so that just wouldn't make any sense. Viekang ALSO could not have been killed by hunters or other Bhaalspawn because ALL the other bhaalspawn that hadn't died yet were gathered in Saradush. If he then leaves Saradush, then he's basically safe. And even if he were to travel somewhere else with hunters, he would just teleport away again.

    I remember try ascension, and I really liked how you could get Balthazar to fight alongside you in the last fight. I also remember the last fight was difficult as all hell and I didn't know how to survive it long enough to see what happens next...
  • HaHaCharadeHaHaCharade Member Posts: 1,644
    I'm confused...

    I thought you were supposed to kill Imoen when she backtalks you outside of Candlekeep in BG1 and refuses to let you go without her? THEN when she shows up again in BG2 (obviously undead!) I thought you were supposed to kill her there too.

  • kingthrallkingthrall Member Posts: 76
    Mutt Mongering Riff Raff
  • CalmarCalmar Member Posts: 688
    I guess Imoen's essence is peanuts compared to that of Charname. I mean, you also give some of yours to your beloved brother Sarevok - what happens with that?
  • moopymoopy Member Posts: 938
    edited February 2013
    It was cop out bull crap that you could give up your essence. Imoen should die, and she should have died at Spellhold as intended.

    And I wish more than anything they do in BG2:EE would be to recorrect the story line back to the original intent and do that. I know they can't, and if they could I know they wont.

    But it is stupid, real life is hard, and sometimes things don't work out.

    Having worked all the way to Spellhold to save Imoen, to have her die in front of you, would have been truly epic story telling, have made the story make sense with the bhaal spawn essence, and made it take a nice dark turn that would have fit the setting. It would have made future dealings in SoA where it talks about giving into your rage of the Slayer make WAY WAY WAY WAY more sense.

    Lawful good paladin charname giving into the rage of the slayer? Not buying it, but I sure would if Imoen had just been murdered in front of him.

    It would also make more sense for Irenicus to have bhaal essence and to be fighting you in hell instead of having "half" of yours, if he had stolen Imoen's.

    This would have made so many parts of the game better.

    @SharGuidesMyHand
    It made the story AWESOME, as the story should have been, (See above). BUT if they were going to be pressured by fans to keep Imoen alive, they should have also gone back on her being a Bhaal spawn, but they couldn't because they needed Irenicus to want her essence, so they should have not given into their fans.

    And then make up tons of crap like you get mad enough to finally give into your rage and become the slayer even though you saved your sister, and that Irenicus is sharing your essence in hell at the end blahblahblahblah I said that all before I know, but they took the most epic story every and made it less epic than it would have been due to a bunch of whining asshats.
  • ErinneErinne Member Posts: 151
    Xavioria said:


    -Viekang has always been an interesting and unresolved plot element to me, because of his unique ability to teleport away to a random place once he senses fear. @Madhax you're right the first time, it was Melissan who helped him out, and blocked his power. I don't think his ability would teleport him to a place that he would be fearful of, because the ability is a defense to it, so that just wouldn't make any sense. Viekang ALSO could not have been killed by hunters or other Bhaalspawn because ALL the other bhaalspawn that hadn't died yet were gathered in Saradush. If he then leaves Saradush, then he's basically safe. And even if he were to travel somewhere else with hunters, he would just teleport away again.

    It's been a while since I did that quest, but I thought that if you cast Horror on him and he tried to teleport, the wards preventing teleportation would kick in and he'd be chunked? Might be wrong, but I'm sure there was a "bad ending" to that quest that ended with him dead.
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